oh I will and have been, so don't worry about that, even bought a couple months of supporter

The only thing that could be acceptable to me is to revive Team Fortress 2 Beta to be a version of TF2 more community based from which Valve & the TF2 team could take some ideas.
I could see Valve not completely disliking the idea since they are already allowing the community to create a lot of contents.

But you know... we have a lot of good ideas here, but many of them require a bit of collaboration from the developer side (at least for the starting point).

https://play.esea.net/index.php?s=league&d=standings&division_id=2173

I'm a little confused about something and I hope someone could be so kind as to clarify this for me (I'm very new to competitive-ish playing).

Why does Valve care about community imposed white lists? If they wanted a strong competitive scene by their rules, wouldn't they just arrange for tournaments and put up the prize money themselves? I'm sure they have the capacity to set up a system with their servers, etc, to run tournaments now and again...

I've also heard a few people saying that we should continue talking to Valve the same way we are - how does this work? Is there some sort of official/semi-official feedback system? Is this a reference to the generic feedback options available to every player?

Thanks!

tfw bitcoins

Is it a possibility ESEA might revisit EU?

I think the current white list is pretty good. Maybe we can unban the BASE Jumper to diminish the usage of gunboats as you mentioned.

we already tried to unban the base jumper and it was not fun at all

It was only allowed, for like, a day. That's not long enogh for people to get over the meme part of it.

why do we need ESEA?
this game is going nowhere, etf2l is perfectly fine and they have everything we need

• regular seasons
  
• easy to communicate with admins
  
• good whitelist(blacklist?) and maps
  
• simple ui
  
• free

I'm sure there are more points but I can't think of any right now.
etf2l have stood the test of time. They've outlasted wire play,ESEA, esl, esa and many more so why should the eu player base need ESEA? etf2l was and is the stable rock in eutf2

Maybe from this Valve can learn that using community members isn't exactly the optimal way is a terrible way to handle PR, and hire someone tat Valve to do it...

You could've just made a strawpoll instead of posting the most toxic thread in 2017 not even 1 week into the year

european community did a big mistake by choosing etf2l over ESL, tf2 wasn't going anywhere with etf2l and that has been proven by now.

ESEA

• regular seasons
  
• same whitelist and one different map
  
• idk about the admin(s)
  
• simple ui
  
• not free but if you want a free league go play ugc or stay on etf2l
  
• Actual meaningful prizepools across all divisions

Which goes to the heart of why the current unlocks situation and Valve's whole approach is so flawed. (The following rant is not aimed specifically at you kaidus btw)

When it happened they had a design choice to make. To continue to make TF2 a casual game and introduce items based around fun mechanics with no thought to the competitive scene, or to work a bit harder and design items that also had competitive play in mind and consider the needs of those players. They chose option 1 - ban what you don't like and they'll design the game how they like. They created the situation.

That's why MyM represents such a half hearted attempt at "embracing" competitive. Because they haven't gone back to that point and looked at the fundamental design direction of the game and why so many unlocks are banned.

It's not hard to get detailed feedback on these items, they've been discussed endlessly here and elsewhere over the years. It doesn't take long to find the definitive reasons for banning items. That's why the idea that they have to be revisited forever by current players is absurd. If Valve wanted to do something about them they would have. If they had a vision and wanted to enter into a dialog about them they could have.

I could rant around this subject for hours, the extent to which they've beefed it in the face of the competition is staggering. If you won't listen to their loud and clear messages on this then it will never get through to you. Do what you like with the unlocks but don't do it with the idea that it will change anything about the game other than your experience of playing it.

Flawless logic. Obviously they don't have this level of commitment

You email eric, driller, jill, or any other number of TF2 people or even the whole team. You get a reply saying thanks for your email. Except on the rare occasions that your email has immediate practical application it disappears without trace. They will do stuff like schedule in-game notifications if you're running an event and ask nicely, or add stuff to the blog if you provide most of the content, or do medals (eventually) as long as you provide the models.

Everything about competitive support is "we'd like to but we're not quite ready for it yet". That sounds promising, but really they're not going to tell their customers to fuck off without hope are they? Once you've heard it for the 10th time it becomes clear that particular train is never arriving at the station.

e: you can add them on steam as well, but the results are basically the same

e2: Just to provide some balance to the negativity, they'll be interested when the community becomes important in it's own right as a share of their TF2 customers or it gains a high profile through other means. If you want to pursue the path to majors the best thing is to promote what is still a great competitive game however you can and get people into leagues and systems that can expand it's profile, faceit and esea for example. The voluntary leagues unfortunately lack clout in that regard. Bit harder to achieve from the grass roots with the arrival of the recent competition though.

I would say that for a healthier discussion, people should not rise to others' personal attacks.

However, Mr. Slin will post long, thought-out paragraphs politely and respectfully explaining his position, and he gets -40 frags and people respond "lol ur a faggot"

This does not refute anything he has to say, but rather immediately results to shitflinging.

The past has been rough, yes. But you now have an opportunity to capitalize on the potential of this game. B4nny isn't going to throw that away, he's going to work for it because he loves the game and wants it to succeed and grow. He's willing to put up with some unlocks if it means making the game become bigger and better.

This thread was discussed a bit on reddit along with twitter drama: https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/5mpywx/funke_vs_b4nny_funke_vs_b4nny_nobody_really_wants/
opinions?

philosophical question:

https://youtu.be/YWwILB8Y0_Y

Reddit is full of idiots.

https://i.imgur.com/fK26Yr0.png

You're sort of feeding what they're saying in that thread about the comp community being toxic/awful etc. Care to elaborate?

yeah but the crux of this whole argument that we need to unban shit is that it will make the game "bigger and better" which is pretty much categorically untrue. sure, if valve mentioned to us that it would then maybe we could suffer through a few seasons of absolute aids before they get around to realizing that most weapons have mechanics that just dont fit in competitive tf2 but also realize they cant do anything about it because bitchy redditors who have an understanding of the game about as deep as a fucking puddle would complain. because, in reality, they have no interest in competitive tf2, they would rather play their retard classes with gimmicky unlocks in a shitfest format and pretend it's competitive at all.

e:

*calls people assholes
*people get made and call u an idiot
*SEE I WAS RIGHT UR ASSHOLES LOLOL FUKT

Reddit is full of idiots.

If you read through the reddit posts they are all agreeing with b4nny because they still believe that smaller blacklist = valve support, which hasn't done anything for competitive but add fun-sucking weapons and mechanics into the game with no upsides whatsoever.

Hard to say if this is serious given your username but.... there is no new opportunity. If you think b4nny or slin's experience is markedly different to the one I outlined above think again. Nobody has a telephone straight to God here. Valve don't talk to CSGO players - think of the difference in profile and importance to the game and consider that.

Fucking around with some unlocks isn't going to make a difference and it isn't the reason that the entire competitive scene is such a small part of the overall player base. People aren't going to start playing our mode because bonk is unbanned.

What I can guarantee you is that if Valve made a move then all bets are off, game mode, maps, unlocks, fuck it; we are playing ctf_doublecross with the Pomson at the TF2 Valve major.

I think there is a lot more to discuss here

B4nny said some weapons would need more work, and should remain banned, such as jarate. However, the addition of the cow mangler has been relatively harmless. It's just a rocket launcher with a redundant charge up mechanic and no ammo.

And reddit is not one person. I think most of them agree that a rework of mechanics to make them fit better in TF2 is a good thing. Most of them dislike the reserve shooter. Is that a "bad opinion" of reddit? They would like to see that weapon removed from the pyro's arsenal, I don't think that's such a horrible thing to believe. It kind of makes sense, actually.

TF2 is the 3rd most played game on steam. They are taking competitive players' advice on how to change the game. How is that "no new opportunity"? Dota is 13 years old and it has survived because of constant tweaks and changes, and it had a playerbase constantly. Stop giving up.

Yeah... you're sad b4nny left and the thread went quiet and you're trolling on his behalf

do you understand who most of that "third most played game on steam"'s playerbase is and why that gives valve even less incentive for trying to do anything with tf2 competitively is

fuck, when do you hear about tf2 online somewhere else without hearing "LOL HATS XDDD CONGA LOLOL CLASSIC HAT SIMULATOR LOL"? and if you don't hear it being represented that fucking lowly, is most people's sentiments not thinking of it as a casual meatgrinder simulator after playing a few hundred hours of 32 man pubs?

how would that possibly translate to tf2esports!11 if valve generally bases their changes off of the latter