toads_tfdo you understand who most of that "third most played game on steam"'s playerbase is and why that gives valve even less incentive for trying to do anything with tf2 competitively is
Broodwar's playerbase mostly played BGH and towerdefense, yet the 1v1 esports part of it was very popular. Anyone remotely vested in the future of this game knows that shit's fine. The crocodile tears are just funny at this point.
[quote=toads_tf]do you understand who most of that "third most played game on steam"'s playerbase is and why that gives valve even less incentive for trying to do anything with tf2 competitively is[/quote]
Broodwar's playerbase mostly played BGH and towerdefense, yet the 1v1 esports part of it was very popular. Anyone remotely vested in the future of this game knows that shit's fine. The crocodile tears are just funny at this point.
dude
a starcraft expansion from the nineties is in such fucking different context than tf2 is right now i dont even know how you can make that comparison
dude
a starcraft expansion from the nineties is in such fucking different context than tf2 is right now i dont even know how you can make that comparison
Everything you guys say is so exaggerated and over the top, including what B4nny says. I feel like I'm reading revelations or something.
The seventh 6s scout poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “dead gaem”
Why is it that the whole of the community is gaining interest in the game despite other games coming out, and are willing to cooperate with valve as they make changes? Oh that's right, because saying the sky is falling doesn't make it so.
Everything you guys say is so exaggerated and over the top, including what B4nny says. I feel like I'm reading revelations or something.
[i]The seventh 6s scout poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “dead gaem”[/i]
Why is it that the whole of the community is gaining interest in the game despite other games coming out, and are willing to cooperate with valve as they make changes? Oh that's right, because saying the sky is falling doesn't make it so.
[img]http://img11.deviantart.net/543b/i/2006/251/2/6/crocodile_tears_by_kaaziel.jpg[/img]
hey do i get free points too if i make an edgy comment about how no one cares about tf2
hey do i get free points too if i make an edgy comment about how no one cares about tf2
CommanderTigerconsider unbanning the quick fix as they nerfed it last patch
What are you talking about? Do you mean that it can't cap points while Ubered? Or do you mean it's lost ground vs other Mediguns because they grant Scout speed? Because neither of those things matter. The Quick-Fix is broken because it lets Medics escape too quickly and easily, outheals Medigun in mid range team fights, and builds faster than Medigun Ubercharge while still being able to trade with it. Its vulnerability to offclassing also means lots of dumb shit like permanent Heavy and Sniper are brought in to DPS down megaheal.
Literally every facet of Quick-Fix makes for a shittier game.
(unless they've changed something i'm not aware of)
[quote=CommanderTiger]consider unbanning the quick fix as they nerfed it last patch[/quote]
What are you talking about? Do you mean that it can't cap points while Ubered? Or do you mean it's lost ground vs other Mediguns because they grant Scout speed? Because neither of those things matter. The Quick-Fix is broken because it lets Medics escape too quickly and easily, outheals Medigun in mid range team fights, and builds faster than Medigun Ubercharge while still being able to trade with it. Its vulnerability to offclassing also means lots of dumb shit like permanent Heavy and Sniper are brought in to DPS down megaheal.
Literally every facet of Quick-Fix makes for a shittier game.
(unless they've changed something i'm not aware of)
clckwrkhttp://img11.deviantart.net/543b/i/2006/251/2/6/crocodile_tears_by_kaaziel.jpg
Go ahead and be snarky man, that's all you have. Snark and internet points. It doesn't show who's right and who's wrong, it's just you stroking your ego.
[quote=clckwrk][img]http://img11.deviantart.net/543b/i/2006/251/2/6/crocodile_tears_by_kaaziel.jpg[/img][/quote]
Go ahead and be snarky man, that's all you have. Snark and internet points. It doesn't show who's right and who's wrong, it's just you stroking your ego.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/JBPOpMb.jpg[/img]
[img]http://image.prntscr.com/image/f96d224a617046b3aa35ac192e22ba85.png[/img]
[img]http://image.prntscr.com/image/0f34065fc2f74d6c8e27e82756b4b6d7.png[/img]
??
[quote=the301stspartan][img]http://image.prntscr.com/image/f96d224a617046b3aa35ac192e22ba85.png[/img]
[img]http://image.prntscr.com/image/0f34065fc2f74d6c8e27e82756b4b6d7.png[/img]
??[/quote]
A conversion! Testify!
Before this thread became heated, I said the following;
TINSFVb4nny the Quick-Fix.
I wasn't in TF2 when the Quick-Fix was legal. I'd be interested to see how it would play these days.
A large part of this thread became 'b4nny is wrong/misguided' and 'b4nny is wrong/misguided and here's why', countered by others (sometimes b4nny himself). The weapon he suggested unbanning is the Quick-Fix. I think it is reasonable to say that this is the weapon that he believes is most ready to be unbanned, would, as he put it, most increase the tactical variability of the game, etc.
Solely on the basis of gameplay (forget Valve/state of TF2/comp scene/etc.), is the Quick-Fix in a state in which it can be reasonably unbanned? After all, wasn't it arbitrarily banned by ESEA some nine or ten seasons ago? In addition, it has been nerfed since then, both directly (slower uber build rate) and indirectly (all Medi Guns allow the Medic to increase his speed when healing someone who is faster).
It seems to me that it must answer the following questions in the affirmative:
Is it balanced?
Does it increase (or at least not decrease) the skill involved?
Is it fun to play with?
Is it fun to play against?
Balance: I think so. The fast heal rate and uber building is strong, but halving the buffs and not granting invulnerability are sizable downsides. You also cannot block point capture with the uber. Also, it is useless against a Kritzkrieg.
Skill: It adds the dimension of Medic latching onto a Soldier or Demo and flying across the map. Conversely, the Medic must take care not to be jumped in inadvertently by his heal target. This increases a Medic's need for awareness and knowing his team. The nature of the Quick-Fix uber forces teams to be very aware of sticky traps when pushing through chokes, especially into last. Like the stock, the Medic must know whom to flash with the uber.
Play with: If it's not fun to play with, no one will use it.
Play against: Since I have minimal experience in a competitive setting, I won't try to answer.
From the standpoint of casters and spectators, the Quick-Fix makes for a rock-paper-scissors game of Medi Guns, where Stock beats Kritz, Krits beats Quick-Fix, and Quick-Fix (used properly) beats Stock.
Again, I'm new to the scene and maybe I'm completely wrong. If that is the case, how so? Keep in mind that I am not clamoring for the thing to be unbanned; I'm interested as to why it continues to be and if that should change.
Note: It seems 4812622 inadvertently anticipated my post in responding to another as I was typing this.
4812622: Wouldn't that just make the Kritzkrieg a better option, since it heals the same as Stock and counters the Quick-Fix?
Before this thread became heated, I said the following;
[quote=TINSFV][quote=b4nny] the Quick-Fix.[/quote]
I wasn't in TF2 when the Quick-Fix was legal. I'd be interested to see how it would play these days.
[/quote]
A large part of this thread became 'b4nny is wrong/misguided' and 'b4nny is wrong/misguided and here's why', countered by others (sometimes b4nny himself). The weapon he suggested unbanning is the Quick-Fix. I think it is reasonable to say that this is the weapon that he believes is most ready to be unbanned, would, as he put it, most increase the tactical variability of the game, etc.
Solely on the basis of gameplay (forget Valve/state of TF2/comp scene/etc.), is the Quick-Fix in a state in which it can be reasonably unbanned? After all, wasn't it arbitrarily banned by ESEA some nine or ten seasons ago? In addition, it has been nerfed since then, both directly (slower uber build rate) and indirectly (all Medi Guns allow the Medic to increase his speed when healing someone who is faster).
It seems to me that it must answer the following questions in the affirmative:
Is it balanced?
Does it increase (or at least not decrease) the skill involved?
Is it fun to play with?
Is it fun to play against?
Balance: I think so. The fast heal rate and uber building is strong, but halving the buffs and not granting invulnerability are sizable downsides. You also cannot block point capture with the uber. Also, it is useless against a Kritzkrieg.
Skill: It adds the dimension of Medic latching onto a Soldier or Demo and flying across the map. Conversely, the Medic must take care not to be jumped in inadvertently by his heal target. This increases a Medic's need for awareness and knowing his team. The nature of the Quick-Fix uber forces teams to be very aware of sticky traps when pushing through chokes, especially into last. Like the stock, the Medic must know whom to flash with the uber.
Play with: If it's not fun to play with, no one will use it.
Play against: Since I have minimal experience in a competitive setting, I won't try to answer.
From the standpoint of casters and spectators, the Quick-Fix makes for a rock-paper-scissors game of Medi Guns, where Stock beats Kritz, Krits beats Quick-Fix, and Quick-Fix (used properly) beats Stock.
Again, I'm new to the scene and maybe I'm completely wrong. If that is the case, how so? Keep in mind that I am not clamoring for the thing to be unbanned; I'm interested as to why it continues to be and if that should change.
Note: It seems 4812622 inadvertently anticipated my post in responding to another as I was typing this.
4812622: Wouldn't that just make the Kritzkrieg a better option, since it heals the same as Stock and counters the Quick-Fix?
What are you guys going to say when valve makes changes to tf2 based off of b4nny's advice? B4nny has a different opinion than you on what should be done. And the people who control the game are inviting b4nny to their head quarters, and are communicating with him directly. He doesn't care for what you guys believe.
Valve will make changes you don't like to the game you love, and you can either try to cooperate with valve now and prevent this, or continue to make snarky posts on tf.tv. The latter will ensure the game you love gets heavily modified into something you don't like. Your choice.
What are you guys going to say when valve makes changes to tf2 based off of b4nny's advice? B4nny has a different opinion than you on what should be done. And the people who control the game are inviting b4nny to their head quarters, and are communicating with him directly. He doesn't care for what you guys believe.
Valve will make changes you don't like to the game you love, and you can either try to cooperate with valve now and prevent this, or continue to make snarky posts on tf.tv. The latter will ensure the game you love gets heavily modified into something you don't like. Your choice.
why not just do a scrim with the quick fix? what better way to determine if the weapon is "OP" or not? if it turns out that the weapon isn't broken, then great, we can unban it! if it turns out that it's op as fuck or really annoying, then we keep it banned. theorycrafting is only useful up to a certain extent, especially in a game like tf2.
why not just do a scrim with the quick fix? what better way to determine if the weapon is "OP" or not? if it turns out that the weapon isn't broken, then great, we can unban it! if it turns out that it's op as fuck or really annoying, then we keep it banned. theorycrafting is only useful up to a certain extent, especially in a game like tf2.
aimbottersarefagetsValve will make changes you don't like to the game you love, and you can either try to cooperate with valve now and prevent this, or continue to make snarky posts on tf.tv. The latter will ensure the game you love gets heavily modified into something you don't like. Your choice.
I think you are unlikely to convince your audience that this is the case. They believe that Valve will modify the game into something they do not like, snarky comments or no.
[quote=aimbottersarefagets]
Valve will make changes you don't like to the game you love, and you can either try to cooperate with valve now and prevent this, or continue to make snarky posts on tf.tv. The latter will ensure the game you love gets heavily modified into something you don't like. Your choice.[/quote]
I think you are unlikely to convince your audience that this is the case. They believe that Valve will modify the game into something they do not like, snarky comments or no.
TINSFVAfter all, wasn't it arbitrarily banned by ESEA some nine or ten seasons ago?
Watch this hour of riveting 1-0 gameplay and decide for yourself. I wouldn't call it arbitrary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kJie5tG_t4
It's banning was met with widespread jubilation
As far as the changes to the unlock go they probably aren't strong enough but who knows?
[quote=TINSFV]After all, wasn't it arbitrarily banned by ESEA some nine or ten seasons ago? [/quote]
Watch this hour of riveting 1-0 gameplay and decide for yourself. I wouldn't call it arbitrary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kJie5tG_t4
It's banning was met with widespread jubilation
As far as the changes to the unlock go they probably aren't strong enough but who knows?
GentlemanJon
As far as the changes to the unlock go they probably aren't strong enough but who knows?
if only there was a way to figure this out... one that didn't involve theorycrafting and arguing on an online forum...
[quote=GentlemanJon]
As far as the changes to the unlock go they probably aren't strong enough but who knows?[/quote]
if only there was a way to figure this out... one that didn't involve theorycrafting and arguing on an online forum...
rocketslayif only there was a way to figure this out... one that didn't involve theorycrafting and arguing on an online forum...
But who will volunteer for an hour of scoreless Gullywash?
[quote=rocketslay]if only there was a way to figure this out... one that didn't involve theorycrafting and arguing on an online forum...[/quote]
But who will volunteer for an hour of scoreless Gullywash?
GentlemanJonTINSFVAfter all, wasn't it arbitrarily banned by ESEA some nine or ten seasons ago?
Watch this hour of riveting 1-0 gameplay and decide for yourself. I wouldn't call it arbitrary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kJie5tG_t4
Its banning was met with widespread jubilation
As far as the changes to the unlock go they probably aren't strong enough but who knows?
My use of the word 'arbitrary' was in the sense of ESEA making the decision itself, rather than the random sense. We are now discussing whether the community should unban this or that weapon, not ESEA. The fact that people were generally happy with the banning is a fair point.
I actually disagree with those who hold low-scoring games in contempt. Yes, it typically means less action, but it cranks up the tension. In a low-scoring football game (American, though the same no doubt applies to soccer), a score or a large gain are much more meaningful than in a shootout. Shootouts are fine, but so are slower games. People may disagree; that's fine.
The question of whether it is now fun is for more knowledgeable people than I.
(I will watch that gameplay; if it changes my mind, I'll edit this)
[quote=GentlemanJon][quote=TINSFV]After all, wasn't it arbitrarily banned by ESEA some nine or ten seasons ago? [/quote]
Watch this hour of riveting 1-0 gameplay and decide for yourself. I wouldn't call it arbitrary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kJie5tG_t4
Its banning was met with widespread jubilation
As far as the changes to the unlock go they probably aren't strong enough but who knows?[/quote]
My use of the word 'arbitrary' was in the sense of ESEA making the decision itself, rather than the random sense. We are now discussing whether the community should unban this or that weapon, not ESEA. The fact that people were generally happy with the banning is a fair point.
I actually disagree with those who hold low-scoring games in contempt. Yes, it typically means less action, but it cranks up the tension. In a low-scoring football game (American, though the same no doubt applies to soccer), a score or a large gain are much more meaningful than in a shootout. Shootouts are fine, but so are slower games. People may disagree; that's fine.
The question of whether it is now fun is for more knowledgeable people than I.
(I will watch that gameplay; if it changes my mind, I'll edit this)
TINSFVI think you are unlikely to convince your audience that this is the case. They believe that Valve will modify the game into something they do not like, snarky comments or no.
Take clockwork. Does he try to cooperate with valve like b4nny does? Objectively speaking, no. Therefore, his opinions on how the game should be changed or not changed are not going to be taken into account. If you desire the game to remain unchanged or be changed into something you like, then you should speak up with the change makers. B4nny has his own opinion for how the game should be modified. Therefore, he tries to influence valve.
Just look at the MyM update review b4nny made. He literally said he convinced them to not make certain changes. It's dumb to just complain that bad changes are made when one didn't try to do anything about it. It's like those people who complain Trump won when they didn't even bother to vote or convince anyone around them.
It's like b4nny said, you forfeit the right to complain when you don't even try to influence the choices made. You voluntarily pulled your interests out of the equation.
[quote=TINSFV]I think you are unlikely to convince your audience that this is the case. They believe that Valve will modify the game into something they do not like, snarky comments or no.[/quote]
Take clockwork. Does he try to cooperate with valve like b4nny does? Objectively speaking, no. Therefore, his opinions on how the game should be changed or not changed are not going to be taken into account. If you desire the game to remain unchanged or be changed into something you like, then you should speak up with the change makers. B4nny has his own opinion for how the game should be modified. Therefore, he tries to influence valve.
Just look at the MyM update review b4nny made. He literally said he convinced them to not make certain changes. It's dumb to just complain that bad changes are made when one didn't try to do anything about it. It's like those people who complain Trump won when they didn't even bother to vote or convince anyone around them.
It's like b4nny said, you forfeit the right to complain when you don't even try to influence the choices made. You voluntarily pulled your interests out of the equation.
aimbottersarefagetsJust look at the MyM update review b4nny made
Please Stop Responding To Bait
[quote=aimbottersarefagets]Just look at the MyM update review b4nny made[/quote]
Please Stop Responding To Bait
GentlemanJonDreamboatb4nnyGetting rid of the toxic people who impede progress and replacing them with people who genuinely care and still have a passion for the game would absolutely kickstart progressing competitive TF2.
This thread needs names. Which toxic people impede progress and need to be removed.
Disappointed by the lack of response to this tbh
b4nny is incapable of being specific about anything, he can hardly back up anything he says with evidence, he just states his opinion repeatedly and gets confused when other people don't find that a satisfactory argument.
ＩＤＩＯＴ
The only way valve will ever give a shit about competitive is if their inattentiveness to it starts to cost them money. As far as anyone can see we CAN'T convince valve to give a shit about growing TF2 as a competitive game, the pub game would have to die before valve will care about us and even then they might just let it rot anyway. Not enough people at valve actually give a shit about TF2 for it to get the treatment it needs from them. Dota 2 and VR is all they give a shit about right now and it doesn't look like that's going to change any time soon.
Unbanning shit when we already know precisely what's wrong with it and what exactly it does to ruin the game in its own special way is POINTLESS.
[quote=GentlemanJon][quote=Dreamboat][quote=b4nny]
Getting rid of the toxic people who impede progress and replacing them with people who genuinely care and still have a passion for the game would absolutely kickstart progressing competitive TF2.[/quote]
This thread needs names. Which toxic people impede progress and need to be removed.[/quote]
Disappointed by the lack of response to this tbh[/quote]
b4nny is incapable of being specific about anything, he can hardly back up anything he says with evidence, he just states his opinion repeatedly and gets confused when other people don't find that a satisfactory argument.
ＩＤＩＯＴ
The only way valve will ever give a shit about competitive is if their inattentiveness to it starts to cost them money. As far as anyone can see we [b]CAN'T[/b] convince valve to give a shit about growing TF2 as a competitive game, the pub game would have to die before valve will care about us and even then they might just let it rot anyway. Not enough people at valve actually give a shit about TF2 for it to get the treatment it needs from them. Dota 2 and VR is all they give a shit about right now and it doesn't look like that's going to change any time soon.
Unbanning shit when we already know precisely what's wrong with it and what exactly it does to ruin the game in its own special way is POINTLESS.
how in the flying FUCK do you lose your "right to complain" because u didn't "try to take an active process in influencing shit".
First off, the competitive playerbase has been giving feedback to valve for YEARS. valve doesn't give a shit
Secondly, just because i didn't personally go to valve HQ and talk with them or send them 1000 emails doesn't mean i don't have the right to complain. According to you and banny, no one can criticize this game unless they're banny. What a great attitude.
Thirdly, HOW THE FUCK ARE WE SUPPOSED TO GET OUR IDEAS TO VALVE. they literally put their matchmaking system in beta for fucking MONTHS during which there's no fucking way they didn't see all of us saying "add class limits and weapon blacklists" and "change the map pool to x" and "remove the graphics restrictions". Instead we get a pile of shit that has like 300 people playing.
how in the flying FUCK do you lose your "right to complain" because u didn't "try to take an active process in influencing shit".
First off, the competitive playerbase has been giving feedback to valve for YEARS. valve doesn't give a shit
Secondly, just because i didn't personally go to valve HQ and talk with them or send them 1000 emails doesn't mean i don't have the right to complain. According to you and banny, no one can criticize this game unless they're banny. What a great attitude.
Thirdly, HOW THE FUCK ARE WE SUPPOSED TO GET OUR IDEAS TO VALVE. they literally put their matchmaking system in beta for fucking MONTHS during which there's no fucking way they didn't see all of us saying "add class limits and weapon blacklists" and "change the map pool to x" and "remove the graphics restrictions". Instead we get a pile of shit that has like 300 people playing.
it already started costing them money... now all we need is tournaments with large prizepools ...
and ppl wonder why they wont support their ideas ...
it already started costing them money... now all we need is tournaments with large prizepools ...
and ppl wonder why they wont support their ideas ...
rocketslayhow in the flying FUCK do you lose your "right to complain" because u didn't "try to take an active process in influencing shit".
So their are variables that influence the result of an equation. If you voluntarily pull yourself out of the equation, then the result will reflect that. How can you complain that the result didn't reflect your interests when you made sure that it wouldn't reflect your interests?
It's just so removed from reality. It's like those people who are mad Trump got elected when they didn't even go vote or try to convince people to not vote for Trump. Only 55% of eligible voters actually voted, so almost half of people who could have done something about it didn't.
[quote=rocketslay]how in the flying FUCK do you lose your "right to complain" because u didn't "try to take an active process in influencing shit".[/quote]
So their are variables that influence the result of an equation. If you voluntarily pull yourself out of the equation, then the result will reflect that. How can you complain that the result didn't reflect your interests when you made sure that [b]it wouldn't reflect your interests?[/b]
It's just so removed from reality. It's like those people who are mad Trump got elected when they didn't even go vote or try to convince people to not vote for Trump. Only 55% of eligible voters actually voted, so almost half of people who could have done something about it didn't.
aimbottersarefagetsrocketslayhow in the flying FUCK do you lose your "right to complain" because u didn't "try to take an active process in influencing shit".
So their are variables that influence the result of an equation. If you voluntarily pull yourself out of the equation, then the result will reflect that. How can you complain that the result didn't reflect your interests when you made sure that it wouldn't reflect your interests?
It's just so removed from reality
what the fuck do you expect people to do? literally go to valve HQ to talk to them? send them an email which they'lll say "thanks" and then immediately forget about????????????????????????
[quote=aimbottersarefagets][quote=rocketslay]how in the flying FUCK do you lose your "right to complain" because u didn't "try to take an active process in influencing shit".[/quote]
So their are variables that influence the result of an equation. If you voluntarily pull yourself out of the equation, then the result will reflect that. How can you complain that the result didn't reflect your interests when you made sure that [b]it wouldn't reflect your interests?[/b]
It's just so removed from reality[/quote]
what the fuck do you expect people to do? literally go to valve HQ to talk to them? send them an email which they'lll say "thanks" and then immediately forget about????????????????????????
aimbottersarefagetsTINSFVI think you are unlikely to convince your audience that this is the case. They believe that Valve will modify the game into something they do not like, snarky comments or no.
Take clockwork. Does he try to cooperate with valve like b4nny does? Objectively speaking, no. Therefore, his opinions on how the game should be changed or not changed are not going to be taken into account. If you desire the game to remain unchanged or be changed into something you like, then you should speak up with the change makers. B4nny has his own opinion for how the game should be modified. Therefore, he tries to influence valve.
Just look at the MyM update review b4nny made. He literally said he convinced them to not make certain changes. It's dumb to just complain that bad changes are made when one didn't try to do anything about it. It's like those people who complain Trump won when they didn't even bother to vote or convince anyone around them.
It's like b4nny said, you forfeit the right to complain when you don't even try to influence the choices made. You voluntarily pulled your interests out of the equation.
You know, I voted for Trump and am glad Clinton lost. I am sure he will do certain things people don't approve of. This is a likely thing, no? Why would anyone lose the right to criticize him, whether they voted or not? I'm sure I'll have occasion to criticize him. Valve receives praise for a great many things; the fact that we are on this forum is evidence that we love this game very much. On the other hand, we criticize Valve for bad balance decisions, bad matchmaking system, Valve Time, etc.
Yes, Valve listens more than the memers would have people believe. Yes, they have listened to people like b4nny on occasion. The contention of the critics is it's not enough or it's badly done or there are still problems and so on. They have the right to express their views on the matter. Silencing discussion by the "you lose your right to complain" is counter-productive.
[quote=aimbottersarefagets][quote=TINSFV]I think you are unlikely to convince your audience that this is the case. They believe that Valve will modify the game into something they do not like, snarky comments or no.[/quote]
Take clockwork. Does he try to cooperate with valve like b4nny does? Objectively speaking, no. Therefore, his opinions on how the game should be changed or not changed are not going to be taken into account. If you desire the game to remain unchanged or be changed into something you like, then you should speak up with the change makers. B4nny has his own opinion for how the game should be modified. Therefore, he tries to influence valve.
Just look at the MyM update review b4nny made. He literally said he convinced them to not make certain changes. It's dumb to just complain that bad changes are made when one didn't try to do anything about it. It's like those people who complain Trump won when they didn't even bother to vote or convince anyone around them.
It's like b4nny said, you forfeit the right to complain when you don't even try to influence the choices made. You voluntarily pulled your interests out of the equation.[/quote]
You know, I voted for Trump and am glad Clinton lost. I am sure he will do certain things people don't approve of. This is a likely thing, no? Why would anyone lose the right to criticize him, whether they voted or not? I'm sure I'll have occasion to criticize him. Valve receives praise for a great many things; the fact that we are on this forum is evidence that we love this game very much. On the other hand, we criticize Valve for bad balance decisions, bad matchmaking system, Valve Time, etc.
Yes, Valve listens more than the memers would have people believe. Yes, they have listened to people like b4nny on occasion. The contention of the critics is it's not enough or it's badly done or there are still problems and so on. They have the right to express their views on the matter. Silencing discussion by the "you lose your right to complain" is counter-productive.
rocketslaywhat the fuck do you expect people to do? literally go to valve HQ to talk to them? send them an email which they'lll say "thanks" and then immediately forget about????????????????????????
It's not hard man. I've gotten b4nny to agree with me on stream that we should have cylinder hitboxes. Just fucking talk to the people who can influence the result. That doesn't guarantee that we'll have cylinder hitboxes, but it increased the likelihood, however small it may be. Previously, I couldn't be mad that we didn't have cylinder hitboxes. But now, I know that I at least took some action and influenced the result, no matter how small.
TINSFV Silencing discussion by the "you lose your right to complain" is counter-productive.
You just lose credibility. People can still hear your opinion, but they won't even consider it. When someone does not vote when they could have gone voted, I know to not even respect their political opinion. They willingly pulled themself out of the situation and now they're mad that they aren't part of it?
[quote=rocketslay]what the fuck do you expect people to do? literally go to valve HQ to talk to them? send them an email which they'lll say "thanks" and then immediately forget about????????????????????????[/quote]
It's not hard man. I've gotten b4nny to agree with me on stream that we should have cylinder hitboxes. Just fucking talk to the people who can influence the result. That doesn't guarantee that we'll have cylinder hitboxes, but it increased the likelihood, however small it may be. Previously, I couldn't be mad that we didn't have cylinder hitboxes. But now, I know that I at least took some action and influenced the result, no matter how small.
[quote=TINSFV] Silencing discussion by the "you lose your right to complain" is counter-productive.[/quote]
You just lose credibility. People can still hear your opinion, but they won't even consider it. When someone does not vote when they could have gone voted, I know to not even respect their political opinion. They willingly pulled themself out of the situation and now they're mad that they aren't part of it?