• The way it was played, Gpit was pretty much a linear A/D map. It was gradually removed from all the leagues roughly three years ago and wasn't seen since (despite Sideshow's best efforts). Spectators loved it, players hated it. It's not even played in Highlander now. There was another asymmetrical A/D map in the recent ETF2L experimental map cup, don't know how that went.
  
• A competitive rework and reskin of Mountain Lab was discussed and worked on, ultimately didn't go anywhere; that's the biggest push for "pure" A/D that I can remember.

Overall track record of A/D: not great.

balancing the map would be a nightmare

i dont really see how this is better than stopwatch. its functionally similar to a linear A/D map. except instead of being all or nothing, you each play a side, and winner is most caps with speed as the tiebreaker

regardless building A/D maps is probably tough as dicks anyway just because the game modes naturally stalematey. thats not a good way to really handle that without making the map generally favor offense (which isnt a huge problem but defense might be really frustrating to play).

it would be nice if there were more A/D maps made with comp in mind, but the only time i can think of that (phis map) didnt go over well iirc.

5cp (veeery roughly): you hold an area, attempt a push and if successful you move onto the next area. if you lose the push the enemy gets to take your cp.

this mode: you hold an area, attempt a push and if successful you get a point. you then rinse and repeat this for 5 minutes then swap (im assuming that spawn camping is very difficult due to map design here)

seems more or less a downgrade, and 6s has much more room for stuff like momentum pushes if the enemy team keeps bleeding, backcaps etc.

the only case i can think of where this mode is better is if the attacking team decides to push whenever they have even players and ubers (at least) which means a lot less stalemating, but this kinda depends. it may still be best to wait for a pick or force before pushing

If I get 10 people who play 6s TF2 competitively off my friendslist right now and ask them if they like A/D maps in 6s I'm willing to bet that at least 3 of them will say that they hate it, and another 5 will say it's not as enjoyable as 5cp

Just put a timer on everything

5cp is at it's best the fastest-paced gamemode, that's what makes it so fun. What makes it not fun is that at it's worst it's one of the slowest-paced gamemodes. What we really need is some sort of fix to remove stalemates in 5cp, whether that's even possible I don't know, but the fix would probably need to be by valve, not us.

In terms of alternative solutions, A/D is possible but the majority of people don't enjoy the gamemode because it tends towards being slower-paced. Quake CTF could be an idea, I'd have to see it tested to develop an opinion on it though. Personally, I'd like to see more viable koth maps in the rotation, as it's the next-best thing to 5cp in my opinion

OP if you played TFC or Fortress Forever you'd know that the game goes 10x faster with spawns and movement (to the point of making me vomit after several conc jumps 10 lives in a row)

There is no way to try to emulate the same gameplay or speed in TF2 and that's for the better because it's a different game.

thats a shitty meme

A/D is the shit

bring back gpit

I completely understand that the game is faster than TF2. But in TFC / Quake TF its capture the flag. The way that is played is very different. One team is in one spot for much of the match. One teams goal is to get in get out. The goal of what I am saying is to push back a team, while one moves forward. Different scenarios.

(This is not me being defensive about my choice. I appreciate everyone's constructive criticism.)

Your idea would make it easier stalemate because pussy teams that usually don't ever push without a giant advantage (7) will now literally have zero reason to push at all because they are playing defense. It would just be retards holding last with pyro engi fag setups for x amount of minutes as the other team attempted to break the stalemate by pushing in with uber cover and over.

If anything should be changed it should be the round timer. With a 30 minute time limit you can go up a round or two in the very beginning and then literally sit on the enemy teams fourth point for ~10 minutes doing absolutely nothing and then right before the timer runs out and resets the mid you fail a "push" into last while keeping your medic up and let the other team take their second back. Then rinse and repeat. This is still a problem to a certain extent in ESEA like in second halves when teams have the lead and are less incentivized to push and finish off the game while taking a risk, because they can run out the timer. I feel like in the first half this is almost a non issue (from my experience in ESEA at least), and so long as teams aren't that big tryhards that they will purposefully sit on their dicks and do nothing for 10+ minutes just.to assure they win a game it's good for the most part.

This may sound cynical to you but whatever, there is no reason for most mappers to even attempt making a competitive AD map, it's a waste of their time

Most AD maps are dogshit awful for 6s - nobody will test it and there are no good maps to learn any ideas from. These two things cycle into eachother.

Realistically it's hard enough getting constructive criticism from 6s players without a 'way in' (example- me with sideshow+stark, hyce with ipz taking a liking to logjam, meanwhile at the massive amount of 5cp maps that get 0 attention at all?) without gimping yourself with a mode nobody likes because of the past experiences, and probably won't play.

this will not change until a well known mapper puts time into it, AD is so stigmatised your way in basically has to be that you've already made a map played in league, people have to have a reason to trust you to make something worth playing or they won't even touch it unless you get lucky.

All of that to even get started, mapping is really kinda cut throat. You can't make a mistake, or your maps dead in the water (example- when hyce released a revamped mid which wasn't good before the season started, it killed the map completely) If you get a bad first impression on people, it's dead too (my map xd, or literally any map that had potential but wasn't quite there when first experimental cup happened.) And frankly, the stigma is enough that even if you had a good AD map, the first impression of many people is just that it's AD, so it's gonna be shit. For every positive comment on edifice, in the past cup, it seemed like there was one that dismissed it from being AD.

But for all of that, I'm certainly interested in AD for 6s, so are at least a decent amount of the players, I've got a concept map half blocked out in case the situation changes, or if drudgery gains enough traction that it's not a total waste of time to give it a serious go

tl;dr, the odds are stacked against you if you make AD, good luck finding a decent stock one.

i think if u want non 5cp/viaduct a small pl map is prolly ur best option but even with that i doubt it

have you never heard of koth

5cp isn't inherently stalematey although how it's balanced in the current meta leads to a lot of stalemates for several reasons. 1: Round timers are excessively long allowing for teams to just sit on their advantage for huge chunks of the map. 2: The game revolves too much around ubercharge. The only thing I see a game like overwatch having over tf2 is that each character has an ult that can be used as a pushable advantage. If ubers were somehow made a bit less relevant dry pushing and going for aggressive peeks would be a lot more common ground. 3: The map pool honestly isn't ideal. You have maps with too few and narrow choke points like granary and then maps like sunshine with decent flank routes but it's literally kitefest because of how big the map is (which is further exacerbated by how the game revolves around uber). 4: The team on the defensive doesn't have any incentive to go for a push (unless it's a really good pick) again due to uber. In CS if you are getting destroyed you get an incentive via additional money after consecutive round losses. I don't know necessarily how this would be mitigated but I'm sure the respawn timers could be adjusted to incentivize aggressive pushing for the team that doesn't have mid.

It doesn't make much sense to me to switch to AD if your problem with the current meta is the stalemates. AD is suited for slow, very methodical gameplay. This is why it works so well in counterstrike. I've briefly played your suggestion in a few fortress forever games and it's way more stale than 5cp imo. It's literally just one team conc jumping trying to get the flag while the other team sits there with stickies on the point, a sentry, and stationary soldiers shooting at the flag. It's not fun to play or watch whatsoever. For me comp tf2 is defined by the back and forth tug of war which is perfectly represented via 5cp/koth and forcing one team to play on attack or defense completely takes away what makes comp tf2 so unique and fun.

We always had stalemates and it's not a problem, if people want to play carefully and smart they'll play like that on any gamemode.

We'll call it... Oasis dawn!

Get more Koth maps

lets add a timer on that shitty meme

CTF in tf2 isn't bad because of the maps, it's bad because you can't touch flag to reset & there are classes explicitly designed to stand still and defend

design the round timer to have on average 5 mins on the clock instead of the ten right now. Also capping shouldn't reset it straight to the maximum. It would have to be tweaked a lot to find the ideal limit that it doesn't get in the way during regular game play but ends bad stalemates.Also win limit 5. Koth is not a tenable solution especially at lower levels and in pugs.