TwitchTVJohnTeams in professional sports throw games to get the seed they want for the playoffs. This is not something new in esports or real sports for that matter. These teams do not get fined for this.
Precedence isn't really validation. That's my only real issue with it. While it does occur, if the game is played in a truly sportsman-like manner, every match is played to the full potential of the team.
[quote=TwitchTVJohn]
Teams in professional sports throw games to get the seed they want for the playoffs. This is not something new in esports or real sports for that matter. These teams do not get fined for this.[/quote]
Precedence isn't really validation. That's my only real issue with it. While it does occur, if the game is played in a truly sportsman-like manner, every match is played to the full potential of the team.
TwitchTVJohnfrknTwitchTVJohnAgree with everything but the FT fine. Really, unless it's stated in the conduct policy that they aren't allowed to throw a match/not take it seriously, the fine is meh.
ESEA_RULESWe reserve the right to change, modify, or adapt all rules as deemed appropriate by ESEA in order to uphold and maintain a spirit of overall fairness and good sportsmanship.
All players and teams are to uphold the spirit of fair play at all times.
Throwing a match/seed fixing is not in a spirit of fairness and good sportsmanship.
Teams in professional sports throw games to get the seed they want for the playoffs. This is not something new in esports or real sports for that matter. These teams do not get fined for this.
True, but at the same time, this season the NBA sanctioned the Spurs $250k when they sat Duncan, Parker and Ginobili in a nationally televised game as they deemed it a "disservice to the league and our fans."
[quote=TwitchTVJohn][quote=frkn][quote=TwitchTVJohn]Agree with everything but the FT fine. Really, unless it's stated in the conduct policy that they aren't allowed to throw a match/not take it seriously, the fine is meh.[/quote]
[quote=ESEA_RULES]We reserve the right to change, modify, or adapt all rules as deemed appropriate by ESEA in order to uphold and maintain a spirit of overall fairness and good sportsmanship.
All players and teams are to uphold the spirit of fair play at all times.[/quote]
Throwing a match/seed fixing is not in a spirit of fairness and good sportsmanship.[/quote]
Teams in professional sports throw games to get the seed they want for the playoffs. This is not something new in esports or real sports for that matter. These teams do not get fined for this.[/quote]
True, but at the same time, this season the NBA sanctioned the Spurs $250k when they sat Duncan, Parker and Ginobili in a nationally televised game as they deemed it a "disservice to the league and our fans."
SnookiOff-classing should be ok if the teams agree to have a fun match like mix^ and those other guys imo
[quote=Snooki]Off-classing should be ok if the teams agree to have a fun match like mix^ and [b]those other guys[/b] imo[/quote]
Don't get me wrong - what they did was inconsiderate and people have every right to be upset. However, people are acting like this is some cardinal sin and nothing like this has ever happened. People earn their way into the playoffs. The goal after that is trying to get the matchups you want to go as deep as possible.
Don't get me wrong - what they did was inconsiderate and people have every right to be upset. However, people are acting like this is some cardinal sin and nothing like this has ever happened. People earn their way into the playoffs. The goal after that is trying to get the matchups you want to go as deep as possible.
LKincheloe
Because generally these teams have 2nd and 3rd-string players they can throw out there to play under the guise of "getting them actual experience", however you don't have that luxury in Invite, see here:
Offclassing. Same deal.
Also, with everything positive that has happened in TF2 over these last 6-8 months, it really rustles my jimmies to see that the biggest "story" in this community is the thing that was the most negative. Get over it. Move forward.
[quote=LKincheloe]
Because generally these teams have[b] 2nd and 3rd-string players[/b] they can throw out there to play under the guise of "getting them actual experience", however you don't have that luxury in Invite, see here:
[/quote]
Offclassing. Same deal.
Also, with everything positive that has happened in TF2 over these last 6-8 months, it really rustles my jimmies to see that the biggest "story" in this community is the thing that was the most negative. Get over it. Move forward.
stringer_bellTwitchTVJohnfrknTwitchTVJohnAgree with everything but the FT fine. Really, unless it's stated in the conduct policy that they aren't allowed to throw a match/not take it seriously, the fine is meh.
ESEA_RULESWe reserve the right to change, modify, or adapt all rules as deemed appropriate by ESEA in order to uphold and maintain a spirit of overall fairness and good sportsmanship.
All players and teams are to uphold the spirit of fair play at all times.
Throwing a match/seed fixing is not in a spirit of fairness and good sportsmanship.
Teams in professional sports throw games to get the seed they want for the playoffs. This is not something new in esports or real sports for that matter. These teams do not get fined for this.
True, but at the same time, this season the NBA sanctioned the Spurs $250k when they sat Duncan, Parker and Ginobili in a nationally televised game as they deemed it a "disservice to the league and our fans."
great point
even though precedence should not be coming from real sports, they do get punished occasionally. if not there is ill will with the opposing competitors, fans or media, so there is some retaliation whether it being official or not, so just saying pros do it doesnt mean we have to overlook it, thats stupid logic
and i dont see people acting like it's a cardinal sin anymore, they have been given a small fine which is reasonable and no one is flipping out about it being too severe or too lenient
[quote=stringer_bell][quote=TwitchTVJohn][quote=frkn][quote=TwitchTVJohn]Agree with everything but the FT fine. Really, unless it's stated in the conduct policy that they aren't allowed to throw a match/not take it seriously, the fine is meh.[/quote]
[quote=ESEA_RULES]We reserve the right to change, modify, or adapt all rules as deemed appropriate by ESEA in order to uphold and maintain a spirit of overall fairness and good sportsmanship.
All players and teams are to uphold the spirit of fair play at all times.[/quote]
Throwing a match/seed fixing is not in a spirit of fairness and good sportsmanship.[/quote]
Teams in professional sports throw games to get the seed they want for the playoffs. This is not something new in esports or real sports for that matter. These teams do not get fined for this.[/quote]
True, but at the same time, this season the NBA sanctioned the Spurs $250k when they sat Duncan, Parker and Ginobili in a nationally televised game as they deemed it a "disservice to the league and our fans."[/quote]
great point
even though precedence should not be coming from real sports, they do get punished occasionally. if not there is ill will with the opposing competitors, fans or media, so there is some retaliation whether it being official or not, so just saying pros do it doesnt mean we have to overlook it, thats stupid logic
and i dont see people acting like it's a cardinal sin anymore, they have been given a small fine which is reasonable and no one is flipping out about it being too severe or too lenient
TwitchTVJohnfrknTwitchTVJohnAgree with everything but the FT fine. Really, unless it's stated in the conduct policy that they aren't allowed to throw a match/not take it seriously, the fine is meh.
ESEA_RULESWe reserve the right to change, modify, or adapt all rules as deemed appropriate by ESEA in order to uphold and maintain a spirit of overall fairness and good sportsmanship.
All players and teams are to uphold the spirit of fair play at all times.
Throwing a match/seed fixing is not in a spirit of fairness and good sportsmanship.
Teams in professional sports throw games to get the seed they want for the playoffs. This is not something new in esports or real sports for that matter. These teams do not get fined for this.
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/17744-coca-and-byun-punished-for-match-fixing
[quote=TwitchTVJohn][quote=frkn][quote=TwitchTVJohn]Agree with everything but the FT fine. Really, unless it's stated in the conduct policy that they aren't allowed to throw a match/not take it seriously, the fine is meh.[/quote]
[quote=ESEA_RULES]We reserve the right to change, modify, or adapt all rules as deemed appropriate by ESEA in order to uphold and maintain a spirit of overall fairness and good sportsmanship.
All players and teams are to uphold the spirit of fair play at all times.[/quote]
Throwing a match/seed fixing is not in a spirit of fairness and good sportsmanship.[/quote]
Teams in professional sports throw games to get the seed they want for the playoffs. This is not something new in esports or real sports for that matter. These teams do not get fined for this.[/quote]
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/17744-coca-and-byun-punished-for-match-fixing
MagikarpEpic counter by Killing.
since when is looking at past events that are similar to the current situation, for the purpose of justifying a disciplinary action an "epic counter"? sounds more like an easy way out of a situation, imo.
[quote=Magikarp]Epic counter by Killing.[/quote]
since when is looking at past events that are similar to the current situation, for the purpose of justifying a disciplinary action an "epic counter"? sounds more like an easy way out of a situation, imo.
john'sfatcockDon't get me wrong - what they did was inconsiderate and people have every right to be upset. However, people are acting like this is some cardinal sin and nothing like this has ever happened. People earn their way into the playoffs. The goal after that is trying to get the matchups you want to go as deep as possible.
i see where you're going with this.
[quote=john'sfatcock]Don't get me wrong - what they did was inconsiderate and people have every right to be upset. However, people are acting like this is some cardinal sin and nothing like this has ever happened. People earn their way into the playoffs. The goal after that is trying to get the matchups you want to go as [b]deep as possible[/b].[/quote]
i see where you're going with this.
drmtcMagikarpEpic counter by Killing.
since when is looking at past events that are similar to the current situation, for the purpose of justifying a disciplinary action an "epic counter"? sounds more like an easy way out of a situation, imo.
when the argument against said action is there being a lack of precedence in similar scenarios and you find precedence it is in fact a counter
fucking kill yourself already carrots
[quote=drmtc][quote=Magikarp]Epic counter by Killing.[/quote]
since when is looking at past events that are similar to the current situation, for the purpose of justifying a disciplinary action an "epic counter"? sounds more like an easy way out of a situation, imo.[/quote]
when the argument against said action is there being a lack of precedence in similar scenarios and you find precedence it is in fact a counter
fucking kill yourself already carrots
Just be glad this isn't badminton where the stakes are higher.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-33747_162-57484108/olympic-badminton-teams-disqualified-for-throwing-matches/
Why don't we implement a draft system? We can watch all of the lower end teams intentionally throw their games for the first draft pick in the following ESEA-I season.
Why don't we implement a draft system? We can watch all of the lower end teams intentionally throw their games for the first draft pick in the following ESEA-I season.
drmtcMagikarpEpic counter by Killing.
since when is looking at past events that are similar to the current situation, for the purpose of justifying a disciplinary action an "epic counter"? sounds more like an easy way out of a situation, imo.
It's an epic counter because people were using professional sports leagues' lack of response to throwing games as an example for why FT shouldn't be fined. He posted an example (that is even more relevant) of a similar course of action taken in response to similar conduct.
To add my 2 cents to the matter: It matters tremendously whether or not Fully Torqued was attempting to throw the match in order to gain a better playoff seeding. I hope we all agree if they were that is not in the spirit of fair play as previously defined, and certainly isn't in the eyes of the admins (which de facto are the only ones that matter). As Seanbud's response thread was either deleted or I'm an idiot and can't find it (*spoiler* I'm also just an idiot), and we have no Fully Torqued response to go off of, the only opinion that should matter in this regard is the admins'. Since Killing and Kalkin seem to agree that this was a move made with the intent of gaining a more favorable LAN spot, the fine given is totally justified in my eyes.
[quote=drmtc][quote=Magikarp]Epic counter by Killing.[/quote]
since when is looking at past events that are similar to the current situation, for the purpose of justifying a disciplinary action an "epic counter"? sounds more like an easy way out of a situation, imo.[/quote]
It's an epic counter because people were using professional sports leagues' lack of response to throwing games as an example for why FT shouldn't be fined. He posted an example (that is even more relevant) of a similar course of action taken in response to similar conduct.
To add my 2 cents to the matter: It matters tremendously whether or not Fully Torqued was attempting to throw the match in order to gain a better playoff seeding. I hope we all agree if they were that is not in the spirit of fair play as previously defined, and certainly isn't in the eyes of the admins (which de facto are the only ones that matter). As Seanbud's response thread was either deleted or I'm an idiot and can't find it (*spoiler* I'm also just an idiot), and we have no Fully Torqued response to go off of, the only opinion that should matter in this regard is the admins'. Since Killing and Kalkin seem to agree that this was a move made with the intent of gaining a more favorable LAN spot, the fine given is totally justified in my eyes.
Yo 2007 called. They want TF2 back.
Yo 2007 called. They want TF2 back.
If I ever see this happen again the fine will be an order of magnitude greater at the minimum. This was a warning shot, and much greater penalties were considered. This is practically receiving a get out of jail free card in comparison. I will not tolerate this kind of bullshit in the future.
If I ever see this happen again the fine will be an order of magnitude greater at the minimum. This was a warning shot, and much greater penalties were considered. This is practically receiving a get out of jail free card in comparison. I will not tolerate this kind of bullshit in the future.
is there something wrong with the idea of randomizing the bottom tourney seeds
is there something wrong with the idea of randomizing the bottom tourney seeds
frknThis is true but I would still argue that it is not good sportsmanship. Which is required by the rules. I don't care either way on the fine. *shrug*
I think the problem is "sportsmanship" is far too vague as a rule.
The system has to be set up so that a team doesn't stand to gain anything by throwing a match. Seems obvious, but much easier said than done, of course.
[quote=frkn]This is true but I would still argue that it is not good sportsmanship. Which is required by the rules. I don't care either way on the fine. *shrug*[/quote]
I think the problem is "sportsmanship" is far too vague as a rule.
The system has to be set up so that a team doesn't stand to gain anything by throwing a match. Seems obvious, but much easier said than done, of course.
The difference is that NBA/Starcraft is always casted. There's value beyond winning and losing, entertainment is on the line(which matters considering John took the time to bring the stream to the front page of Twitch). Just don't allow teams to throw matches of the week.
The difference is that NBA/Starcraft is always casted. There's value beyond winning and losing, entertainment is on the line(which matters considering John took the time to bring the stream to the front page of Twitch). Just don't allow teams to throw matches of the week.
can someone point out to me when TF2 shifted away from playing a game and became about putting on a show?
can someone point out to me when TF2 shifted away from playing a game and became about putting on a show?
harsh, but I guess ESEA is trying to send a message, unfortunate that FT is at the receiving end but then again everything surrounding the incident is unfortunate, I see where ESEA is coming from, let this be a precedent and lets move forward
harsh, but I guess ESEA is trying to send a message, unfortunate that FT is at the receiving end but then again everything surrounding the incident is unfortunate, I see where ESEA is coming from, let this be a precedent and lets move forward
yeah i agree i definitely think we should boycott blight until foger pays smaka back
yeah i agree i definitely think we should boycott blight until foger pays smaka back
TwitchTVJohnTeams in professional sports throw games to get the seed they want for the playoffs. This is not something new in esports or real sports for that matter. These teams do not get fined for this.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/01/sport/olympics-badminton-scandal
[quote=TwitchTVJohn]
Teams in professional sports throw games to get the seed they want for the playoffs. This is not something new in esports or real sports for that matter. These teams do not get fined for this.[/quote]
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/01/sport/olympics-badminton-scandal
ScorpiouprisingTwitchTVJohnTeams in professional sports throw games to get the seed they want for the playoffs. This is not something new in esports or real sports for that matter. These teams do not get fined for this.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/01/sport/olympics-badminton-scandal
The Olympics are weird. When it comes to professional sports, the bottom tier of teams lose intentionally to try to get the first draft pick. It's smart.
[quote=Scorpiouprising][quote=TwitchTVJohn]
Teams in professional sports throw games to get the seed they want for the playoffs. This is not something new in esports or real sports for that matter. These teams do not get fined for this.[/quote]
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/01/sport/olympics-badminton-scandal[/quote]
The Olympics are weird. When it comes to professional sports, the bottom tier of teams lose intentionally to try to get the first draft pick. It's smart.
SnookiOff-classing should be ok if the teams agree to have a fun match like mix^ and those other guys imo
my feelings :(
[quote=Snooki]Off-classing should be ok if the teams agree to have a fun match like mix^ and [b]those other guys[/b] imo[/quote]
my feelings :(
no one gave a shit when demuslim threw his MLG qualifiers to guarantee idra a seed in the upper bracket
no one gave a shit when demuslim threw his MLG qualifiers to guarantee idra a seed in the upper bracket
The cast was on ESEA's channel right? Are the casters getting any repercussions for also swearing/baiting FT/handling things unprofessionally?
The cast was on ESEA's channel right? Are the casters getting any repercussions for also swearing/baiting FT/handling things unprofessionally?
PyrokanetisThe cast was on ESEA's channel right? Are the casters getting any repercussions for also swearing/baiting FT/handling things unprofessionally?
dont forget kalkin's f bombs
[quote=Pyrokanetis]The cast was on ESEA's channel right? Are the casters getting any repercussions for also swearing/baiting FT/handling things unprofessionally?[/quote]
dont forget kalkin's f bombs