Ill start
Alright, so I'm gonna be straight here. I do not like to spy changes at all. A few years back I was a platinum spy main and loved the class, played him non-stop and quickly raked in 3K hours. I love TF2, even though I don't play it much anymore, I still think it is an amazing game.
But I hate the DR changes and well and the Ambassador changes. The YER ones I don't mind too much, though I do think it isn't the correct way to handle things. First off, the Dead Ringer. This watch has been controversial for years, and it has gotten many nerfs. The Dead Ringer is a watch that I feel people miss the point of. The DR isn't mean't to be some crutch or get-out-of-jail-free card, it is mean't to enable spy, the weakest class in the game stat-wise, a more aggressive up front play-style. Rather than spy being the opportunist waiting on distractions to make his move, he was the distraction, and used the feign-death mechanic to confuse opponents. Spy has 125 health and a relatively immobile kit, the move speed increased helped that, but still retained his identity as the sneaky glass cannon. The DR was the way for spy to stop being a pussy and come out of the shadows, and while both play-styles equally as fun, sneaky spy get's fucked by anyone with 3 brain-cells worth of awareness, especially if they are playing pyro. The DR gave the spy some counter play to classes like soldier, scout, and pyro, while weakening his power against other classes because of the loud decloak. It made his counters more manageable, while making his targets more likely to outplay him. It was a good system, and while frustrating to play against, it isn't like a DR spy is hard to find after feigning.
The new changes make spy less aggressive in his approaches, by removing the cloak recharge from ammo and dispensers, the DR is just a louder and shittier Invis Watch. Faking a death that is easily understood to be a feign by most semi-competent players is not strong enough to make up for the lack of proper recharging. I get that a spy feigning and decloaking and grabbing a pack and feigning once again is frustrating and taunting to play against, but for a short cloak time and loud decloak with a predictable feign, it is the least the spy could have to try and escape any dangerous class to him. If spy is going to be the worst class in the game because sniper does literally everything better with less effort, than give the damn poor sap some interesting play styles. In short the DR changes break the DR's identity, just making spy a less interesting and fun class.
The Ambassador isn't actually too big of a deal, but I'm not a fan of taking one of the hardest weapons in the game to use that rewards skillful play and accuracy, and making it more RNG based. I know that getting cross map sniped by some skinny french man is hella annoying, I hate it when it happens to me, but without a scope, that's isn't exactly the easiest thing to do. ESPECIALLY in TF2 where everyone should be moving at all times. If you are standing still in TF2 and a class other than Sniper and Heavy, you are playing the game wrong.
Sorry this wall of text, I just don't like seeing the worst class who I love despite his weaknesses, get nerfed for no real understandable reason. I thank you for reading this, I hope you agree with me in some way, if not then whatever, that's life.
Ill start
[quote]Alright, so I'm gonna be straight here. I do not like to spy changes at all. A few years back I was a platinum spy main and loved the class, played him non-stop and quickly raked in 3K hours. I love TF2, even though I don't play it much anymore, I still think it is an amazing game.
But I hate the DR changes and well and the Ambassador changes. The YER ones I don't mind too much, though I do think it isn't the correct way to handle things. First off, the Dead Ringer. This watch has been controversial for years, and it has gotten many nerfs. The Dead Ringer is a watch that I feel people miss the point of. The DR isn't mean't to be some crutch or get-out-of-jail-free card, it is mean't to enable spy, the weakest class in the game stat-wise, a more aggressive up front play-style. Rather than spy being the opportunist waiting on distractions to make his move, he was the distraction, and used the feign-death mechanic to confuse opponents. Spy has 125 health and a relatively immobile kit, the move speed increased helped that, but still retained his identity as the sneaky glass cannon. The DR was the way for spy to stop being a pussy and come out of the shadows, and while both play-styles equally as fun, sneaky spy get's fucked by anyone with 3 brain-cells worth of awareness, especially if they are playing pyro. The DR gave the spy some counter play to classes like soldier, scout, and pyro, while weakening his power against other classes because of the loud decloak. It made his counters more manageable, while making his targets more likely to outplay him. It was a good system, and while frustrating to play against, it isn't like a DR spy is hard to find after feigning.
The new changes make spy less aggressive in his approaches, by removing the cloak recharge from ammo and dispensers, the DR is just a louder and shittier Invis Watch. Faking a death that is easily understood to be a feign by most semi-competent players is not strong enough to make up for the lack of proper recharging. I get that a spy feigning and decloaking and grabbing a pack and feigning once again is frustrating and taunting to play against, but for a short cloak time and loud decloak with a predictable feign, it is the least the spy could have to try and escape any dangerous class to him. If spy is going to be the worst class in the game because sniper does literally everything better with less effort, than give the damn poor sap some interesting play styles. In short the DR changes break the DR's identity, just making spy a less interesting and fun class.
The Ambassador isn't actually too big of a deal, but I'm not a fan of taking one of the hardest weapons in the game to use that rewards skillful play and accuracy, and making it more RNG based. I know that getting cross map sniped by some skinny french man is hella annoying, I hate it when it happens to me, but without a scope, that's isn't exactly the easiest thing to do. ESPECIALLY in TF2 where everyone should be moving at all times. If you are standing still in TF2 and a class other than Sniper and Heavy, you are playing the game wrong.
Sorry this wall of text, I just don't like seeing the worst class who I love despite his weaknesses, get nerfed for no real understandable reason. I thank you for reading this, I hope you agree with me in some way, if not then whatever, that's life. [/quote]
for me personally, I don't really blame the strictly pub players who have somewhat misguided thoughts regarding game balance/certain unlocks only because some shit is only truly broken in the hands of players of a caliber that they'd probably rarely see in pubs ever. can't really expect people to know shit that they've never experienced before
it's only when those people then go ahead and state that they know better than people who have actual experience playing against good players that tilts me lol
(also the people who are like competitive balancing ruins casual play like ???)
for me personally, I don't really blame the strictly pub players who have somewhat misguided thoughts regarding game balance/certain unlocks only because some shit is only truly broken in the hands of players of a caliber that they'd probably rarely see in pubs ever. can't really expect people to know shit that they've never experienced before
it's only when those people then go ahead and state that they know better than people who have actual experience playing against good players that tilts me lol
(also the people who are like competitive balancing ruins casual play like ???)
[img]https://i.imgur.com/oatOA45.png[/img]
the real problem isnt that they have no ideas about game balance
its that they shove it down everyone else in highly exaggerated sarcastic and condescending ways (ex: http://prntscr.com/fmorxp)
its one thing to be bad at a game but theyre complete asses about it
the real problem isnt that they have no ideas about game balance
its that they shove it down everyone else in highly exaggerated sarcastic and condescending ways (ex: http://prntscr.com/fmorxp)
its one thing to be bad at a game but theyre complete asses about it
go to the youtube comment sections, even better
go to the youtube comment sections, even better
the ignorant pubber redditors are actually usually pretty funny despite their stupidity I enjoy their posts
the ignorant pubber redditors are actually usually pretty funny despite their stupidity I enjoy their posts
It is always extremely pleasing/discoursing to find out that TF2 got a balance update that fixed/fucked the game up. In the past, We as the community have collectively shaken our heads when looking at the update notes, and ask who was high that day when balancing for some things.
Upon learning that TF2 got a balance update, I dropped everything and checked the subreddit for news. I go to the blog post and, lo and behold, this is the team telling us the planned changes BEFORE THEY PLAN TO DROP THE UPDATE. It's like being crippled for years and suddenly waking up and learning you can walk again; it's amazing. However, this sudden ability to walk again isn't completely miraculous unless you continue to be transparent and proactive; not posting the full planned changes before dropping the patch is like learning that you're not completely cripppled anymore, and that now you can walk with a noticeable limp. It's much better than being chairbound, but a limp is still a limp.
Valve, myself, and I'm hoping the community as well, pray that you tell us the rest of the planned changes before dropping them in an update. Knowing ahead of time for the complete list of balance changes before getting hit with an update keeps the community at the very least informed about decisions and feel like their opinions matter. The community for years has felt that the TF2 team doesn't play their own game, and figuring out that the team is giving us some insight on future balance changes is a blessing. Telling us the full list of balance changes would be amazing before dropping them in an update.
The community and myself hope the TF2 team agree with this.
Seriously, if we get another Righteous Bison-style nerf I think the community might implode.
It is always extremely pleasing/discoursing to find out that TF2 got a balance update that fixed/fucked the game up. In the past, We as the community have collectively shaken our heads when looking at the update notes, and ask who was high that day when balancing for some things.
Upon learning that TF2 got a balance update, I dropped everything and checked the subreddit for news. I go to the blog post and, lo and behold, this is the team telling us the planned changes BEFORE THEY PLAN TO DROP THE UPDATE. It's like being crippled for years and suddenly waking up and learning you can walk again; it's amazing. However, this sudden ability to walk again isn't completely miraculous unless you continue to be transparent and proactive; not posting the full planned changes before dropping the patch is like learning that you're not completely cripppled anymore, and that now you can walk with a noticeable limp. It's much better than being chairbound, but a limp is still a limp.
Valve, myself, and I'm hoping the community as well, pray that you tell us the rest of the planned changes before dropping them in an update. Knowing ahead of time for the complete list of balance changes before getting hit with an update keeps the community at the very least informed about decisions and feel like their opinions matter. The community for years has felt that the TF2 team doesn't play their own game, and figuring out that the team is giving us some insight on future balance changes is a blessing. Telling us the full list of balance changes would be amazing before dropping them in an update.
The community and myself hope the TF2 team agree with this.
Seriously, if we get another Righteous Bison-style nerf I think the community might implode.
imagine the emails they are getting at valve haha
imagine the emails they are getting at valve haha
P. Much the only change I disagree with is the ambassador. 1. It nerfs the worst class in the game and 2. It adds rng to one of spy's most fun weapons.
P. Much the only change I disagree with is the ambassador. 1. It nerfs the worst class in the game and 2. It adds rng to one of spy's most fun weapons.
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/235547000756502531/327229796591337472/0gs4ucu1k25z.png[/img]
As an Engi main, I seriously think I'm going to stop playing until VALVe reworks the Your Eternal Reward. YER was already a bit annoying to fight, as spies didn't have to deal with my Sentry before targeting me, and could basically allow a free dead engi and sentry for what is often a facestab thanks to australian internet. But of course the spy has to get a stab first, which does require skill and patience on the Spy's behalf.
New design though? Spies will disguise in spawn, visit the resupply locker, and just stab, apply a sapper, and get killed by my team. This is going to be a straight upgrade on stock for spies who are playing near the resupply cabinet (blue team on first point).
As an Engi main, I seriously think I'm going to stop playing until VALVe reworks the Your Eternal Reward. YER was already a bit annoying to fight, as spies didn't have to deal with my Sentry before targeting me, and could basically allow a free dead engi and sentry for what is often a facestab thanks to australian internet. But of course the spy has to get a stab first, which does require skill and patience on the Spy's behalf.
New design though? Spies will disguise in spawn, visit the resupply locker, and just stab, apply a sapper, and get killed by my team. This is going to be a straight upgrade on stock for spies who are playing near the resupply cabinet (blue team on first point).
K so I know a lot of ppl arent going to see this but I just wanted to day that since I play spy and engine the most, this balance changes suck. First of all, I run YER(your eternal reward) with the dead ringer. Might seem like a wierd combo but it works for me, a lot. Disguising with the yer is nice more since you get to skip the pain of getting the first backstabbing but the cloak reduction is ridiculous. The dead ringer already has a reduction plus this is going to mean ur a dead man with no cloak. Like wtf is 2 seconds of cloak gonna do for u. The ltranger is the only primary that might save this load out but I have a strange prof kl diamond back dude. So yea. The nerf for dead ringer sucks even more. Now when my cloak gets TR triggered I'm gonna be running to a metal source only to realise that that's not how it works anymore out of habit and then to a wm1 pyro. Shit.
K so I know a lot of ppl arent going to see this but I just wanted to day that since I play spy and engine the most, this balance changes suck. First of all, I run YER(your eternal reward) with the dead ringer. Might seem like a wierd combo but it works for me, a lot. Disguising with the yer is nice more since you get to skip the pain of getting the first backstabbing but the cloak reduction is ridiculous. The dead ringer already has a reduction plus this is going to mean ur a dead man with no cloak. Like wtf is 2 seconds of cloak gonna do for u. The ltranger is the only primary that might save this load out but I have a strange prof kl diamond back dude. So yea. The nerf for dead ringer sucks even more. Now when my cloak gets TR triggered I'm gonna be running to a metal source only to realise that that's not how it works anymore out of habit and then to a wm1 pyro. Shit.
Can I show Steam discussion balance posts instead, since I'm more familiar with it?
Can I show Steam discussion balance posts instead, since I'm more familiar with it?
lmao you guys thought reddit was bad? The Facebook comment section under PCGamer is probably the most poisonous thing i have read in a while.
https://i.imgur.com/XpGWV1j.png
http://i.imgur.com/96v6JKB.png
http://i.imgur.com/cFagZP6.png
lmao you guys thought reddit was bad? The Facebook comment section under PCGamer is probably the most poisonous thing i have read in a while.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/XpGWV1j.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/96v6JKB.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/cFagZP6.png[/img]
2 people said yes, so I'll soon find some posts on Stam discussion.
2 people said yes, so I'll soon find some posts on Stam discussion.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/6ih369/tf2_blog_balance_changes/dj6j9g7/
CovaneIt's fucking absurd, the DR has needed a buff for at least 4 years and they nerf it.
I often play without sound and it's still easy as hell to spot spies. When you have enough time in this game, you get a feel for when you've triggered a DR spy versus when you've actually killed them, and on top of that every single player with no more than a couple hundred hours should have learned the paranoia of "that spy's probably not dead."
Every single chance they get the TF2 team caters to the very worst kinds of players and nerfed aspects that had no business being nerfed. That's pathetic in its own right, let alone the absolute mind-fuck of a failure when they have the goddamn balance king of video games Icefrog in-house and they could pay attention to what balancing a competitive game actually looks like.
On balance the spy is the hardest class to play. Objectively the spy is the easiest class to counter. What a fucking shitshow.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/6ih369/tf2_blog_balance_changes/dj66wmi/
AllTheMegahertzI liked pretty much all of these, but that Rescue Ranger change is a pretty big nerf. I'm a bit biased, and I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, but it just seems so huge. I think the Rescue Ranger does deserve a nerf, it's basically the only option on defense in most scenarios, so I'll guess we'll have to wait and see how it plays. Good on Valve for being transparent about this update, however.
^several people seem to share this thought :/ I'm under the impression 15 metal at maximum per bolt is paltry and basically nothing for a nerf.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/6ih369/tf2_blog_balance_changes/dj6j6fd/
Gilgamesh942Why the hell would you nerf the base jumper? It is not hard to hit people slowly floating to the ground. Jesus Valve.
^countless posts similar to that, it's amazing how short sighted people can be on the power of that unlock. (seriously I tried to count I found 20 something posts like this)
https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/6ih369/tf2_blog_balance_changes/dj6j9g7/
[quote=Covane]It's fucking absurd, the DR has needed a buff for at least 4 years and they nerf it.
I often play without sound and it's still easy as hell to spot spies. When you have enough time in this game, you get a feel for when you've triggered a DR spy versus when you've actually killed them, and on top of that every single player with no more than a couple hundred hours should have learned the paranoia of "that spy's probably not dead."
Every single chance they get the TF2 team caters to the very worst kinds of players and nerfed aspects that had no business being nerfed. That's pathetic in its own right, let alone the absolute mind-fuck of a failure when they have the goddamn balance king of video games Icefrog in-house and they could pay attention to what balancing a competitive game actually looks like.
On balance the spy is the hardest class to play. Objectively the spy is the easiest class to counter. What a fucking shitshow.[/quote]
https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/6ih369/tf2_blog_balance_changes/dj66wmi/
[quote=AllTheMegahertz]I liked pretty much all of these, [u]but that Rescue Ranger change is a pretty big nerf.[/u] I'm a bit biased, and I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, but it just seems so huge. I think the Rescue Ranger does deserve a nerf, it's basically the only option on defense in most scenarios, so I'll guess we'll have to wait and see how it plays. Good on Valve for being transparent about this update, however.[/quote]
^several people seem to share this thought :/ I'm under the impression 15 metal at maximum per bolt is paltry and basically nothing for a nerf.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/6ih369/tf2_blog_balance_changes/dj6j6fd/
[quote=Gilgamesh942]Why the hell would you nerf the base jumper? It is not hard to hit people slowly floating to the ground. Jesus Valve.[/quote]
^countless posts similar to that, it's amazing how short sighted people can be on the power of that unlock. (seriously I tried to count I found 20 something posts like this)
Finally, here we go:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/1369506834142213580/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/1369506834140463016/?tscn=1498145637
https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/1369506834140300775/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/1369506834141932103/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/1369506834141542888/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/1369506834136368246/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/1369506834141497761/
I can find for you guys if you want.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/1369506834142876057/
[img]https://puu.sh/wrDkK/f8cc924671.jpg[/img]
Last one
https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/1369506834142621312/?tscn=1498166301
This one is painful. Unfortunentaly you need to read OP's all comments to realize why.
Last one
https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/1369506834142621312/?tscn=1498166301
This one is painful. Unfortunentaly you need to read OP's all comments to realize why.
[img]https://image.prntscr.com/image/3nLRTPAjQr6Ylg6YtcmFWw.png[/img]
[img]https://image.prntscr.com/image/J9ceBtoUSTuDMObIoyWGag.png[/img]
[img]https://image.prntscr.com/image/Ycnglv21QUya90P-ziwzaQ.png[/img]
Holy fuck I am actually so tilted.
Holy fuck I am actually so tilted.
Valve isn't actually gonna listen to these shitters, are they?
Valve isn't actually gonna listen to these shitters, are they?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/1WEdHU2.png[/img]
o god it hurts
[img]http://imgur.com/o5YuQpm.png[/img]
it hurts even more
Just go and see this guy's latest replies.
Just go and see this guy's latest replies.
Man these guys are blaming competitve community for these "nerfs" to their beloved crit-a-cola and DR.
Man these guys are blaming competitve community for these "nerfs" to their beloved crit-a-cola and DR.