only thing im worried about with lgs is that they make it easier than scout to deny bombers. to do that you definitely want damage falloff and probably reduced knockback compared to other weapons

Limit its range

overpowered

its damage outpur should not be higher than current flamethrower's if it has longer range. Tho that could prob be fixed easier with damage- and knockback fall off . Also i don't think having a secondary attack for just spychecking is worth it, I think having one ability for ir is fine.

the damage output for the flamethrower rn is like stupid crazy

Ye I know, that's why I on't want LG to have same output.

ya :D

+ 25% damage
+ 15% movement speed
+ twice less airblast cost
- on hit: uninstalls the game

It's a bait so that pyro mains go away.

pyros movement speed is already too high for the amount of health he has

Just make it similar to the quake one:
No airblast gimmicks (or give it a very limited one)
A decent range or even one similar to the old flamethrower
The same switch speed as any old stock weapon
A slight knockback (not too much to completely push someone into a corner)
A single consistent beam
I dunno, like 6-8 damage per bolt with damage fall off
200-150 max ammo

What if instead of a lightning gun Pyro had slower cpma movement so he could move quickly to get close to things so he can flamethrower them? It would be fun and skill based.

Rework the phlog into a lightning gun type of weapon. The phlog has always been a horrible gimmick that's really unfun to play against. This LG should have extremely mild pushback and have quite limited range (think Quake Champions at the absolute max). It should also have significant damage falloff so it can only melt people hard at a close range but is very mild at a distance (then it's only OK if your tracking is godlike). Once the beam has touched you for x amount of consecutive ticks (units of time) without breaking contact you catch on fire and start taking afterburn damage. This rewards skillful tracking.

Here's a terrible quality video of someone showing the "Microwave gun" in use in the original Soldier of Fortune game.
https://youtu.be/tkhLceIngEw?t=2m24s
I can see the phlog functioning somewhat like this and it even incorporates fire so it fits pyro.

LG: Basically a pistol with slightly better accuracy, 2x pistol damage and either none or very short afterburn. Give it some lasers effects or whatever so it fits with pyro

Jetpack: Passive secondary, m2 launces you like a rocket jump (ground only, if you're already juggled you shouldnt be able to do it) replaces airblast, limited charges that refill over time

quake is not like tf2
you can't have a quake lightning gun in tf2 just like you can't have a quake rocket launcher in tf2

literally game breaking

Just for reference:
CPMA LG is 10dmg per tick
QL/Reflex LG is 6dmg per tick
QC LG is 7dmg per tick

Each has it differently that works for their game. There's also more difference in terms of fire rate and etc. But I don't have those memorized. The range of the LG also varies.

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/7/7f/Original.png/250px-Original.png?t=20111128091241

Also how big would the theoretical beam be? Seems to me that since tf2's characters hitboxes are literally boxes there has to be some sort of rework with the hitboxes right? Or am I just thinking about this too much?

150 DPS since it would be harder to aim and wouldn't hit several players. No damage fall-off.
Airblast renamed to "Airshock"
Or to keep it fire-themed, call it "Lava ray" and make it red.
does LG count as hitscan? that would get rid of any unnecessary RNG and dumb particle systems.

honestly it would make more sense if direct hit had a quake-themed reskin since its probably the closest to the original q3 rocket launcher in terms of mechanics

I'll try to suggest something that isn't too hard to implement. Suppose we keep the existing flamethrowers' models etc but they shoot a hitscan beam with a fixed range, similar to Zarya's m1 in Overwatch. Beam can penetrate through players like a machina bullet would. DPS would have to be playtested but I think falloff with distance should still be a thing, so like 150 DPS point blank and 75 max range should be okay.

Airblast: I imagine it'd be better to repurpose pyro as something more offensive so that stuff like uber denial etc wouldn't be so necessary. So basically

• remove ability to push players entirely
  
• can still reflect projectiles, ammo cost is reduced by 50% across the board, but no minicrits
  
• reduced self-damage bonus like the soldier has to assist on reflect jumping

Unlocks: keep the general idea of current stats but adapt them a bit

• degreaser - fast switch speed (can we just get back the 65% instead of having different speeds to switch to and from?); maybe 20% damage penalty along with afterburn penalty. Basically it's the go-to if you like using the secondaries more than the primary.
  
• backburner - uses backstab hitbox but only minicrits instead of full crits from the back (since it's hitscan it would work basically exactly as the back scatter for scout; 2x airblast cost not that big of a penalty)
  
• dragon's fury - same as now but small projectile, maybe half of the current one, and repressurization is reset on a successful reflect so you're rewarded by using m2 correctly instead of spamming
  
• phlog - honestly have no idea. The current design is pretty stupid. But there would be room for different stats such as +25%range/-25%damage or something like that

quake rockets are faster and directs/splash very close to the player is fsr more important than it is in tf2, its essentially a different weapon

pyro already denies bombers by reflecting their shit

More range and more damage but with fall off, and instead of 200 ammo that lasts a long time it has a clip that has to be reloaded every 3s or whatever depending on the reload speed.

https://i.imgur.com/cSE7TFv.png

funny how none of you realize that there is already a lasergun in tf2 lol

you guys need to understand that tracking in tf2 is fundamentally easier than it is in quake so there is no real way to make a lightning gun viable without being absurdly overpowered

just make a phlog that takes aim w/ slightly longer range, itd work better than the df for sure

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/7/7f/Original.png/250px-Original.png?t=20111128091241

:thinking:

good one bro

currently QC players are complaining about their LG accuracy drops from 40% to 20% after the patch, it has nothing to do with the gun but actually because of the "pixel-perfect" hitboxes (that wrap around the 3d models), make it very hard to hit

this is QL hitbox, basically just a cylinder: https://cdn03.bethesda.net/forum/uploads/436d8eee-85c8-49ca-b69d-de9f2a94b4c6.jpg

this is TF2 hitboxes for hitscan: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/469804623031824709/B1DBAA2AD0B97758EB35FA17F8BB952EF581A51A/

even though they're not that small, they ain't a joke, especially with thin classes like Scout, Spy, ..combine with fast accelerate speed (when you spam A+D) and Crouch jump, i don't think tracking is that easy

about damage, i think 6dmg per tick, 20 ticks per sec, 120dps total is a very reasonable number to start with

p/s: if no one complains about Zarya being OP, then there is a real way to make a lightning gun viable without being absurdly overpowered