Temporary crits with the extended range sounds obnoxious to deal with. I feel like a new pyro primary that's an lg would be better but if we were going to make an existing weapon into an lg I'd choose the Degreaser.

I was thinking of getting rid of the crits and making it just a stock lg from quake.

How many threads do we need

at least 3 a week for the next year

As many as it takes.

its not gonna happen

Replacing all the current flamethrowers with DF and reworking current DF to have a smaller hitbox and less ammo sounds more reasonable at this point. Stock flame particles are a pain to skill index and the TF2 dev team have been consistently mediocre for a while now.

whats the point debating when we cant change what happens

IDK if anyone has mentioned this yet but what if we gave the pyro class a quake-style lightning gun?

I havent seen a post saying that specifically only the phlog gets changed to a lg, and in my mind thats getting rid of a useless weapon and replacing it with a useful one

give pyro the nailgun

Make the Pyro an actual OG

.

There is one thread theorycrafting about lightning guns already, it's fun and all but the pyro update is already done with and I don't think it's legitimate to expect any more conceptual changes to the class.

I still think the current design will be decent once the serious glitches with flame hit detection are fixed. But that's the only thing we can really ask from Valve at this point.

Can we stop suggesting the lightning gun for any class?

The heavy already has the "lightning gun" (which is his minigun)
and I really don't think Valve is ever going to change the Pyro's flamethrower to work similarly to the Lightning Gun for a shit ton of reasons.
Valve barely has 5-7 people PROGRAMMING tf2, and you're going to not just ask for a new weapon with new attributes, but rather an entirely new weapon, that is also going to have to overhaul every flamethrower in the game?
Secondly, The heavy already has the fucking "Lightning Gun". Also, Is this suggestion coming from that tf2 video talking about how the Pyro should be fixed and than the guy in the video mentioned the lightning gun from quake? Or is everyone just hearing this from other people and thinking it's smart?
For those who don't know:
The lightning Gun in Quake was basically a gun that you needed REALLY GOOD TRACKING in order to use effectively, but the Minigun is exactly the same in terms of mechanics in the sense that all you need in order to be good with the MG is good tracking.

How is heavy's minigun LG? Someone please explain

heavy mains :vvv

Amazing video that perfectly demonstrates this. You should make it public again

I love skill-based gameplay, and there's a reason why people say both heavy and pyro are the least skill based classes in the game. And it's because of their main weapon, which are both easy to use spin offs of the plasma gun for pyro, the machine gun for heavy. I really want a lg in one form or another for the pyro because it would get rid of the garbage no-skill flamethrowers that we've been given. A quote from Ninlop, "The flamethrower messes up the flow of tf2." The flamethrower, because of its lack of skill requires, stick out and attracts bad players. Something that does not fit in the most skill-based game outside of quake. Obviously giving the pyro a lg is not the only option. Making his flamethrowers a distinct plasma gun could work just as well, but right now, a lg seems like the most reasonable and successful option for the future of tf2 whether there are 5 or 50 people working on tf2.

an lg would be cool, not sure how much fun being melted by a crit laser would be though.

the criticism below is about old pyro mechanics and i agree with a lot of stuff you said in regards to new pyro

this is blatantly wrong, if it was true that all pyros have equal flamethrower aim then pyros w+m1ing into pyros s+m1ing would always lose, all other things besides mechanical skill being equal, and that is obviously false

where are these well-regarded pyro players and their persuasive arguments about how the flamethrower doesn't take aim?

EDIT: also, how would a pyro even become well-regarded, considering there's no difference between a low-skill Pyro and a high-skill Pyro?

by that logic, syringe gun is broken and takes no aim because if you w+m1 into someone you're almost guaranteed to hit them at least once

why is hitting someone once good enough? (you can't say afterburn because you specifically said that wasn't the issue.) that metric disproportionately makes all weapons with fast RoF take no skill. if you make the claim that the flamethrower takes no skill because it's easy to hit someone once, then you must also claim:

"pistol is easy to hit someone once, therefore it takes no skill."

"smg is easy to hit someone once, therefore it takes no skill."

"the lightning gun is easy to hit someone once, therefore it takes no skill."

and i don't think you're willing to say that.

great, now try searching "demoman m1m2"

are we trusting youtube to inform us about what skill in this game is?

medigun and sentries take zero skill and have maybe a hundredth of the learning curve to be proficient (4 1 m1 and go afk, or auto-lock on a teammate and don't leave his range, no mouse movement necessary)

and how can you claim this while immediately seguing into talking about reflects, which even according to you have all of those requirements

also getting good flamethrower tracking is harder than airblast into secondary (which, when it stunlocked, took zero skill except against scouts) and understanding when to use flames is harder than understanding when to airblast into secondary (which is most of the time)

Do you really need all these words when all you're saying over and over is the same blatantly untrue statement about flamethrower taking skill?

just remove the class lol