http://logs.tf/1974517#76561198055312047
With this result no one can contend that the current state of pyro is fairly balanced within the game. Granted Olgha is a good pyro, but the amount of damage he was able to do in this game simply through spamming the detonator constantly and flailing his mouse around with the flamethrower, not to mention how easy it is for him to deny enemy sollies bombing his combo shows how the class is horribly unbalanced and really needs a nerf.
Given this, how far should pyro be nerfed and in what ways? Is it the detonator afterburn that is the most OP or the flamethrower damage and the airblast cone? Some people may even argue that it doesn't need a nerf but let's at least have some intelligent discussion on how the class can be made less ridiculously unbalanced and awful to play against.
http://logs.tf/1974517#76561198055312047
With this result no one can contend that the current state of pyro is fairly balanced within the game. Granted Olgha is a good pyro, but the amount of damage he was able to do in this game simply through spamming the detonator constantly and flailing his mouse around with the flamethrower, not to mention how easy it is for him to deny enemy sollies bombing his combo shows how the class is horribly unbalanced and really needs a nerf.
Given this, how far should pyro be nerfed and in what ways? Is it the detonator afterburn that is the most OP or the flamethrower damage and the airblast cone? Some people may even argue that it doesn't need a nerf but let's at least have some intelligent discussion on how the class can be made less [url=https://clips.twitch.tv/ImpartialConfidentChipmunkYouWHY]ridiculously unbalanced[/url] and [url=https://clips.twitch.tv/StormySaltyFerretNotLikeThis]awful to play against[/url].
i always said the detonator is insane but everyone focuses on the scorch shot only, you can det anywhere and ever since afterburn reducing heal rate got implemented WAY before the pyro update it started being that way and with flamethrowers being what they are now its just an extra layer on this nonesense
i always said the detonator is insane but everyone focuses on the scorch shot only, you can det anywhere and ever since afterburn reducing heal rate got implemented WAY before the pyro update it started being that way and with flamethrowers being what they are now its just an extra layer on this nonesense
These two teams look really close to each other on paper, and this always brings joy when Product is making its way into the season. After all, who's not down for a close, back-and-forth, dm-heavy product game ? I know I am.
These two teams look really close to each other on paper, and this always brings joy when Product is making its way into the season. After all, who's not down for a close, back-and-forth, dm-heavy product game ? I know I am.
Well i personally think the way detonator is designed right now is a bit overpowered, what i should recommend is to reduce the duration of afterburn down to 4 or 3 seconds when the target got hit by a splash. On the opposite side, the ennemy team hasn't even tried to run a sniper darwin danger shield or heavy, anything that would make the soldiers switch to another class
Well i personally think the way detonator is designed right now is a bit overpowered, what i should recommend is to reduce the duration of afterburn down to 4 or 3 seconds when the target got hit by a splash. On the opposite side, the ennemy team hasn't even tried to run a sniper darwin danger shield or heavy, anything that would make the soldiers switch to another class
It's just a complete mess of a class.
I don't think it can ever be both viable and not awful to play against due to the nature of the class. Happy for them to nerf it to oblivion tbh.
It's just a complete mess of a class.
I don't think it can ever be both viable and not awful to play against due to the nature of the class. Happy for them to nerf it to oblivion tbh.
kinda funny that people wanted the pyro to be made "more viable" knowing how awful it already was to play against... there is no "balance" to be found, the point of the class is that you kill people just by walking forward at them. that's totally bearable if we rid ourselves of the idea that the classes need to be "balanced"—just make the pyro do really low damage but still a bit more than an unskilled player could do on a different class. the design of the pyro is inherently "low learning curve, low skill ceiling", and that means it'll always be either incredibly overpowered or totally useless to anyone but a brand new pub player. all they had to do was just keep it the latter
kinda funny that people wanted the pyro to be made "more viable" knowing how awful it already was to play against... there is no "balance" to be found, the point of the class is that you kill people just by walking forward at them. that's totally bearable if we rid ourselves of the idea that the classes need to be "balanced"—just make the pyro do really low damage but still a bit more than an unskilled player could do on a different class. the design of the pyro is inherently "low learning curve, low skill ceiling", and that means it'll always be either incredibly overpowered or totally useless to anyone but a brand new pub player. all they had to do was just keep it the latter
breaking news:
game sucks and no communication from developers
also I'd like to sign up to post the next monthly "pyro aids" thread please
breaking news:
game sucks and no communication from developers
also I'd like to sign up to post the next monthly "pyro aids" thread please
either revamp the class entirely (lg style) or if for some inane reason valve wants to keep a class that literally requires 0 fine motor control make it really really really bad
obviously i prefer the first but idk i don't really trust valve these days so...
either revamp the class entirely (lg style) or if for some inane reason valve wants to keep a class that literally requires 0 fine motor control make it really really really bad
obviously i prefer the first but idk i don't really trust valve these days so...
pyro should be class limit 0 until valve give the community some sort of dialogue. It's very up in the air whether or not this is what their desired result was for the pyro update.
pyro should be class limit 0 until valve give the community some sort of dialogue. It's very up in the air whether or not this is what their desired result was for the pyro update.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/SmrRYBg.png[/img]
just fix retards doing 1000dps while shaking their mouse blindly with no monitor and it should be fine. also make it so flames are deactivated when pyro dies to avoid them sticking to wall and killing some1 2 seconds later.
tbh i just wish they would bring pyro to what he was in 2012 minus reserve shooter and minus flamethrower mojo.
the class is so braindead and unfun to play atm. i think that most people liked playing pyro because comboing was fun af. now its pretty much dead.
also imo the new airblast is inconsistant af atm. its both aids to play against it and to use it because you never know whats gonna happen. the old one was better both for the pyro and the enemy.
just fix retards doing 1000dps while shaking their mouse blindly with no monitor and it should be fine. also make it so flames are deactivated when pyro dies to avoid them sticking to wall and killing some1 2 seconds later.
tbh i just wish they would bring pyro to what he was in 2012 minus reserve shooter and minus flamethrower mojo.
the class is so braindead and unfun to play atm. i think that most people liked playing pyro because comboing was fun af. now its pretty much dead.
also imo the new airblast is inconsistant af atm. its both aids to play against it and to use it because you never know whats gonna happen. the old one was better both for the pyro and the enemy.
yahooalso imo the new airblast is inconsistant af atm. its both aids to play against it and to use it because you never know whats gonna happen. the old one was better both for the pyro and the enemy.
^ let me airstrafe please
[quote=yahoo]
also imo the new airblast is inconsistant af atm. its both aids to play against it and to use it because you never know whats gonna happen. the old one was better both for the pyro and the enemy.[/quote]
^ let me airstrafe please
this update made the game worse
this update made the game worse
funhaver1998this update made the game worse
they had to manage it somehow
[quote=funhaver1998]this update made the game worse[/quote]
they had to manage it somehow
Remember when we were all worried that they were going to buff pyro but at the same time make it aids to play/play against?
I think clockwork put it once nicely: pyro is a class designed for players that have no previous FPS experience. Why such a class has to exist in a comp environment is beyond me.
Remember when we were all worried that they were going to buff pyro but at the same time make it aids to play/play against?
I think clockwork put it once nicely: pyro is a class designed for players that have no previous FPS experience. Why such a class has to exist in a comp environment is beyond me.
if they had just given him a lightning gun, brought back the axtinguisher and implemented the afterburn nerf properly... and not made it even buggier than before
if they had just given him a lightning gun, brought back the axtinguisher and implemented the afterburn nerf properly... and not made it even buggier than before
[s]ban[/s] [b]remove[/b] pyro
i really dont understand what is gained by allowing something that is inherently mechanically broken. damage aside, the flamethrower simply does not function as every other weapon in the game. the detonator gets more afterburn than it used to as well for whatever reason. heavy and engineer are still viable defensive classes, i cant really imagine what is gained by allowing pyro in its current state.
i really dont understand what is gained by allowing something that is inherently mechanically broken. damage aside, the flamethrower simply does not function as every other weapon in the game. the detonator gets more afterburn than it used to as well for whatever reason. heavy and engineer are still viable defensive classes, i cant really imagine what is gained by allowing pyro in its current state.
aside from the fundamental mechanics of pyro being not very well put together: there are some bad weapons in this game, but this last update brought out some of the worst thought out weapons ever
the dragons fury is an absolutely retarded weapon that can not only murder lines of people since it has punchthrough, but can also 1v1 just about any class in the game with ease as long as your within range to hit them
on the complete total opposite side, the gas can and hot hand are borderline useless weapons that are completely outclassed by other weapons pyro already has (why would I wait for what seems like years to throw out an AOE that MIGHT set someone on fire for 5 to 10 seconds when I can just equip a shotgun or flaregun to kill people way easier (the hot hand is not the powerjack or the pre-nerf axetinguisher so it is useless))
aside from the fundamental mechanics of pyro being not very well put together: there are some bad weapons in this game, but this last update brought out some of the worst thought out weapons ever
the dragons fury is an absolutely retarded weapon that can not only murder lines of people since it has punchthrough, but can also 1v1 just about any class in the game with ease as long as your within range to hit them
on the complete total opposite side, the gas can and hot hand are borderline useless weapons that are completely outclassed by other weapons pyro already has (why would I wait for what seems like years to throw out an AOE that MIGHT set someone on fire for 5 to 10 seconds when I can just equip a shotgun or flaregun to kill people way easier (the hot hand is not the powerjack or the pre-nerf axetinguisher so it is useless))
pyro was valve's biggest mistake
not removing pyro in the pyro update was valve's second biggest mistake
pyro was valve's biggest mistake
not removing pyro in the pyro update was valve's second biggest mistake
https://logs.tf/1973542#76561198059645150
If only we had some sort of whitelist to ban broken/annoying unlocks like the detonator or the scorch shot.
If only we had some sort of whitelist to ban broken/annoying unlocks like the detonator or the scorch shot.
MacIf only we had some sort of whitelist to ban broken/annoying unlocks like the detonator or the scorch shot.
if the class can melt every class in the game in under 2 seconds while not aiming there probably isn't just something wrong with 2 unlocks
[quote=Mac]If only we had some sort of whitelist to ban broken/annoying unlocks like the detonator or the scorch shot.[/quote]
if the class can melt every class in the game in under 2 seconds while not aiming there probably isn't just something wrong with 2 unlocks
The Detonator is not the main problem. The new Flamethrower’s M1 is very good and takes literally no skill, and the Detonator and Scorch do a passable job of covering for Pyro’s weaknesses (bad speed, bad range, bad mobility).
If you want to suggest a Pyro nerf it MUST make flamethrower require aim (and yes, old Flamethrower required aim.). Everything else is secondary.
That being said, I would like to see changes to the Detonator and Scorch. Afterburn is too strong for how easily it’s applied, it should work in tiers of increasing intensity depending on how many shots are hit. The fact that they destroy stickytraps is also utter bullshit.
But.
I think people refuse to think about how they should be fighting Pyros. They’re playing as if they are playing against Soldier or Scout when they are not, and are getting shit on for it. For years I have begged people to MGE against my Pyro to no avail because they think the matchup is either completely unwinnable or just not fun. Only two 6s players have played more than 2-3 rounds before quitting forever, pre-Jungle or post.
People think the Dragon’s Fury deserves to be banned when it’s actually utter garbage (and doesn’t work on a third of the geometry of half the maps) People saying reflecting is easy and takes no skill or thought. Or that Pyro wins every 1v1, or is the best 1v1 class. These are the kind of things that make me think that maybe nobody knows what the fuck they’re talking about. Where are the Heavies and Sentries and Shotgun pockets to obliterate the Pyro? Where is the flank pressre that the Pyro can’t do shit about because he’s slow and has shit range and shit spam? Where is the walking backwards while pumping hitscan into the Pyro and wasting his 8-10 airblasts with stickies? I haven’t seen anyone attempt to adjust to the Flamethrower changes and I don’t think we, as a community, should be fucking with Pyro until attempts are made.
I mean seriously, the class is countered almost completely by pressing S and not shooting rockets at him.
Also Detonator isn’t actually good at putting out damage at long range in fights. It’s good at getting trash damage in stalemates that you can’t capitalize on because Pyro is a shit class, and prolonging stalemates by denying sacs.
The Detonator is not the main problem. The new Flamethrower’s M1 is very good and takes literally no skill, and the Detonator and Scorch do a passable job of covering for Pyro’s weaknesses (bad speed, bad range, bad mobility).
If you want to suggest a Pyro nerf it MUST make flamethrower require aim (and yes, old Flamethrower required aim.). Everything else is secondary.
That being said, I would like to see changes to the Detonator and Scorch. Afterburn is too strong for how easily it’s applied, it should work in tiers of increasing intensity depending on how many shots are hit. The fact that they destroy stickytraps is also utter bullshit.
But.
I think people refuse to think about how they should be fighting Pyros. They’re playing as if they are playing against Soldier or Scout when they are not, and are getting shit on for it. For years I have begged people to MGE against my Pyro to no avail because they think the matchup is either completely unwinnable or just not fun. Only two 6s players have played more than 2-3 rounds before quitting forever, pre-Jungle or post.
People think the Dragon’s Fury deserves to be banned when it’s actually utter garbage (and doesn’t work on a third of the geometry of half the maps) People saying reflecting is easy and takes no skill or thought. Or that Pyro wins every 1v1, or is the best 1v1 class. These are the kind of things that make me think that maybe nobody knows what the fuck they’re talking about. Where are the Heavies and Sentries and Shotgun pockets to obliterate the Pyro? Where is the flank pressre that the Pyro can’t do shit about because he’s slow and has shit range and shit spam? Where is the walking backwards while pumping hitscan into the Pyro and wasting his 8-10 airblasts with stickies? I haven’t seen anyone attempt to adjust to the Flamethrower changes and I don’t think we, as a community, should be fucking with Pyro until attempts are made.
I mean seriously, the class is countered almost completely by pressing S and not shooting rockets at him.
Also Detonator isn’t actually good at putting out damage at long range in fights. It’s good at getting trash damage in stalemates that you can’t capitalize on because Pyro is a shit class, and prolonging stalemates by denying sacs.
but the valve major will never happen if we ban pyro guys
but the valve major will never happen if we ban pyro guys