It's really interesting that DarkNecrid of all people was taking the moral high ground on sexual abuse and unacceptable community behavior in the last thread; acting like some gleaming paragon of TF2 virtue because he's a MOD ON R/TRUETF2 (a real accomplishment) and a member of some self-declared "old guard" of UGC Highlander players.
This is the same man that wrote rape fantasy fiction without consent about "cumming" on my wife's face and "licking it off" and then was very confused and upset after he showed her that she didn't want to talk to or be around him anymore. He was also well known for approaching and befriending underage e-girls in pubs/centers circa 2013. I knew several people that were associated with him via UGC HL but didn't want to actively talk to him because he gave off a creepy, George Harvey vibe.
He also sent a lynch mob of his "old guard Highlander" friends to bombard my Tumblr at the time with messages to kill myself and that I was a "gross tranny faggot" after I told two members of his precious girl gamer harem that they weren't very good at Pyro/Medic.
TLDR; DarkNecrid is a super nice guy and isn't a creep in any manner whatsoever. He definitely has a leg to stand on in the debate about sexist/homophobic/racist behavior in the Team Fortress community, he's a mod on r/truetf2, after all.
This is the same man that wrote rape fantasy fiction without consent about "cumming" on my wife's face and "licking it off" and then was very confused and upset after he showed her that she didn't want to talk to or be around him anymore. He was also well known for approaching and befriending underage e-girls in pubs/centers circa 2013. I knew several people that were associated with him via UGC HL but didn't want to actively talk to him because he gave off a creepy, George Harvey vibe.
He also sent a lynch mob of his "old guard Highlander" friends to bombard my Tumblr at the time with messages to kill myself and that I was a "gross tranny faggot" after I told two members of his precious girl gamer harem that they weren't very good at Pyro/Medic.
TLDR; DarkNecrid is a super nice guy and isn't a creep in any manner whatsoever. He definitely has a leg to stand on in the debate about sexist/homophobic/racist behavior in the Team Fortress community, he's a mod on r/truetf2, after all.
Just a tad bit more exposure on the issue
Just a tad bit more exposure on the issue
You know how people are saying that the tf2 community is very toxic and is the main reason for it to by dying. But by reading this thread, we can see that only there are only a few minorities who have been spreading toxicity by backing pred and degu. While the majority sees the pain and struggle that uberchain had to go through and properly defend her. I still believe the tf2 community is still very strong and has a lot of good in it, we just need to ignore and cut out the people who bring nothing but bad to the community.
I just want to know how this thread is still going on
hi guys i moved house and had no internet for three weeks because BT Openreach is full of idiots.
what did i miss? :D
what did i miss? :D
nuzehttps://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-08-14-valves-forgotten-game-team-fortress-2s-shocking-toxicity-problem
Just a tad bit more exposure on the issue
wow we esports now
Just a tad bit more exposure on the issue[/quote]
wow we esports now
aspenIt's really interesting that DarkNecrid of all people was taking the moral high ground on sexual abuse and unacceptable community behavior in the last thread; acting like some gleaming paragon of TF2 virtue because he's a MOD ON R/TRUETF2 (a real accomplishment) and a member of some self-declared "old guard" of UGC Highlander players.
This is the same man that wrote rape fantasy fiction without consent about "cumming" on my wife's face and "licking it off" and then was very confused and upset after he showed her that she didn't want to talk to or be around him anymore. He was also well known for approaching and befriending underage e-girls in pubs/centers circa 2013. I knew several people that were associated with him via UGC HL but didn't want to actively talk to him because he gave off a creepy, George Harvey vibe.
He also sent a lynch mob of his "old guard Highlander" friends to bombard my Tumblr at the time with messages to kill myself and that I was a "gross tranny faggot" after I told two members of his precious girl gamer harem that they weren't very good at Pyro/Medic.
TLDR; DarkNecrid is a super nice guy and isn't a creep in any manner whatsoever. He definitely has a leg to stand on in the debate about sexist/homophobic/racist behavior in the Team Fortress community, he's a mod on r/truetf2, after all.
I can't speak for DarkNecrid being involved in anything, but it is well known among UGC circles that there is a circlejerk of mostly banned people from UGC HL who are known to sexually harass women, trade nudes like pokemon cards and actively troll people and abuse admins. I myself seen some of them posting on UGC Discord, mostly laughable people easy to ignore, they have a discord where they invited me to attend, so I checked it out and got a stream of abuse about my girlfriend who was a UGC HL admin for many years.
Not 100% sure if these are the same people who trade nudes for fun though, but there is a huge amount of them in UGC buried underneath the chasms.
This is one thing about this thread that annoys me, that lot of people are on their soap box about Pr*d and though said was wrong and certainly upsetting for Uberchain, the victim and they got punished - There are and have been people actively doing FAR worse than him for a long time who have had nowhere near the same level of public witchhunting.
It's mostly just kids being immature, wanting to feel part of a group so think it's cool to do these things, for me and my girlfriend it was water of a ducks back really but there are people who certainly are what I would also call victims.
Problem I have with posting this I am so against public witchhunting because there are always other sides to stories, whilst I am assured there is evidence, nobody wants to take action about it, whether it's fear of using images to appropriate abuse, or whether it's a willingness not to ruin reputations of individuals or the league or just nobody really giving a fuck, I can't say. There is more out there and it' really hard to determine who is responsible for what exactly.
Good news is most these people are banned from UGC and they are shit enough at the game to never appear anywhere else of note except in their little hole.
This is the same man that wrote rape fantasy fiction without consent about "cumming" on my wife's face and "licking it off" and then was very confused and upset after he showed her that she didn't want to talk to or be around him anymore. He was also well known for approaching and befriending underage e-girls in pubs/centers circa 2013. I knew several people that were associated with him via UGC HL but didn't want to actively talk to him because he gave off a creepy, George Harvey vibe.
He also sent a lynch mob of his "old guard Highlander" friends to bombard my Tumblr at the time with messages to kill myself and that I was a "gross tranny faggot" after I told two members of his precious girl gamer harem that they weren't very good at Pyro/Medic.
TLDR; DarkNecrid is a super nice guy and isn't a creep in any manner whatsoever. He definitely has a leg to stand on in the debate about sexist/homophobic/racist behavior in the Team Fortress community, he's a mod on r/truetf2, after all.[/quote]
I can't speak for DarkNecrid being involved in anything, but it is well known among UGC circles that there is a circlejerk of mostly banned people from UGC HL who are known to sexually harass women, trade nudes like pokemon cards and actively troll people and abuse admins. I myself seen some of them posting on UGC Discord, mostly laughable people easy to ignore, they have a discord where they invited me to attend, so I checked it out and got a stream of abuse about my girlfriend who was a UGC HL admin for many years.
Not 100% sure if these are the same people who trade nudes for fun though, but there is a huge amount of them in UGC buried underneath the chasms.
This is one thing about this thread that annoys me, that lot of people are on their soap box about Pr*d and though said was wrong and certainly upsetting for Uberchain, the victim and they got punished - There are and have been people actively doing FAR worse than him for a long time who have had nowhere near the same level of public witchhunting.
It's mostly just kids being immature, wanting to feel part of a group so think it's cool to do these things, for me and my girlfriend it was water of a ducks back really but there are people who certainly are what I would also call victims.
Problem I have with posting this I am so against public witchhunting because there are always other sides to stories, whilst I am assured there is evidence, nobody wants to take action about it, whether it's fear of using images to appropriate abuse, or whether it's a willingness not to ruin reputations of individuals or the league or just nobody really giving a fuck, I can't say. There is more out there and it' really hard to determine who is responsible for what exactly.
Good news is most these people are banned from UGC and they are shit enough at the game to never appear anywhere else of note except in their little hole.
Continued from here Here
gemmBeelthazusI feel like jon's statements are a big cop out, an easy answer to a difficult question of racism and bigotry in this community. We all have to deal with this idiocy jon, but that dosen't mean you take the first bus out of controversy-vile.
gjon donated a LOT of time and money into building things for the community long after he had truly been invested in the scene. he doesn't owe anyone anything and if he doesn't feel proud of being part of the community he has his rights to take his own stuff down and not share it.
Just as I have the right to publicly criticize him for his public opinion and withdrawal from the community. Great for him, he doesn't have to listen to racism, bigotry, transpacific, homophobic, and general hate speech anymore. You can't put the blinders on when controversy happens, you have to engage it. If you don't, it changes you for the worst. It inverts the very essence that makes you who you are, it turns casual interest into radicalism and apathy.
This is how we fight the war on racism, hate speech and bigotry; By having this conversation as much as we can until people realize that it isn't OK. This isn't a meme, this isn't a game, and the internet is a reflection of real life too. You can all be afraid behind your monitors, trembling at the fact that adversity and controversy has invaded your safe space. Until all understand that this is a monster that must be killed, and the sooner the better we will be off. We kill it by being informed, talking to each-other, being open minded, and not shrinking away from things that make us uncomfortable.
This isn't going to be easy, but running away just means we never tried.
[quote=gemm][quote=Beelthazus]I feel like jon's statements are a big cop out, an easy answer to a difficult question of racism and bigotry in this community. We all have to deal with this idiocy jon, but that dosen't mean you take the first bus out of controversy-vile.[/quote]
gjon donated a LOT of time and money into building things for the community long after he had truly been invested in the scene. he doesn't owe anyone anything and if he doesn't feel proud of being part of the community he has his rights to take his own stuff down and not share it.[/quote]
Just as I have the right to publicly criticize him for his public opinion and withdrawal from the community. Great for him, he doesn't have to listen to racism, bigotry, transpacific, homophobic, and general hate speech anymore. You can't put the blinders on when controversy happens, you have to engage it. If you don't, it changes you for the worst. It inverts the very essence that makes you who you are, it turns casual interest into radicalism and apathy.
This is how we fight the war on racism, hate speech and bigotry; By having this conversation as much as we can until people realize that it isn't OK. This isn't a meme, this isn't a game, and the internet is a reflection of real life too. You can all be afraid behind your monitors, trembling at the fact that adversity and controversy has invaded your safe space. Until all understand that this is a monster that must be killed, and the sooner the better we will be off. We kill it by being informed, talking to each-other, being open minded, and not shrinking away from things that make us uncomfortable.
This isn't going to be easy, but running away just means we never tried.
BeelthazusContinued from here HeregemmJust as I have the right to publicly criticize him for his public opinion and withdrawal from the community. Great for him, he doesn't have to listen to racism, bigotry, transpacific, homophobic, and general hate speech anymore. You can't put the blinders on when controversy happens, you have to engage it. If you don't, it changes you for the worst. It inverts the very essence that makes you who you are, it turns casual interest into radicalism and apathy.BeelthazusI feel like jon's statements are a big cop out, an easy answer to a difficult question of racism and bigotry in this community. We all have to deal with this idiocy jon, but that dosen't mean you take the first bus out of controversy-vile.
gjon donated a LOT of time and money into building things for the community long after he had truly been invested in the scene. he doesn't owe anyone anything and if he doesn't feel proud of being part of the community he has his rights to take his own stuff down and not share it.
This is how we fight the war on racism, hate speech and bigotry; By having this conversation as much as we can until people realize that it isn't OK. This isn't a meme, this isn't a game, and the internet is a reflection of real life too. You can all be afraid behind your monitors, trembling at the fact that adversity and controversy has invaded your safe space. Until all understand that this is a monster that must be killed, and the sooner the better we will be off. We kill it by being informed, talking to each-other, being open minded, and not shrinking away from things that make us uncomfortable.
This isn't going to be easy, but running away just means we never tried.
1. Why is it Jon's responsibility to try and fix a game and a community he doesn't actually even engage with outside of a VERY small group of people?
2. Optics matter. It's not about "fixing things" for him, it's about being able to show his brand in a respectable way, and what's currently going on is not respectable.
3. Why the fuck are you trying make Jon a bad guy here? You are saying all this shit about how we need to fix stuff and yet the vast majority of people were mad for like a week and a half and now no one really gives a shit anymore. Go do something yourself before you start to point fingers about how someone else isnt doing enough.
[quote=gemm][quote=Beelthazus]I feel like jon's statements are a big cop out, an easy answer to a difficult question of racism and bigotry in this community. We all have to deal with this idiocy jon, but that dosen't mean you take the first bus out of controversy-vile.[/quote]
gjon donated a LOT of time and money into building things for the community long after he had truly been invested in the scene. he doesn't owe anyone anything and if he doesn't feel proud of being part of the community he has his rights to take his own stuff down and not share it.[/quote]
Just as I have the right to publicly criticize him for his public opinion and withdrawal from the community. Great for him, he doesn't have to listen to racism, bigotry, transpacific, homophobic, and general hate speech anymore. You can't put the blinders on when controversy happens, you have to engage it. If you don't, it changes you for the worst. It inverts the very essence that makes you who you are, it turns casual interest into radicalism and apathy.
This is how we fight the war on racism, hate speech and bigotry; By having this conversation as much as we can until people realize that it isn't OK. This isn't a meme, this isn't a game, and the internet is a reflection of real life too. You can all be afraid behind your monitors, trembling at the fact that adversity and controversy has invaded your safe space. Until all understand that this is a monster that must be killed, and the sooner the better we will be off. We kill it by being informed, talking to each-other, being open minded, and not shrinking away from things that make us uncomfortable.
This isn't going to be easy, but running away just means we never tried.[/quote]
1. Why is it Jon's responsibility to try and fix a game and a community he doesn't actually even engage with outside of a VERY small group of people?
2. Optics matter. It's not about "fixing things" for him, it's about being able to show his brand in a respectable way, and what's currently going on is not respectable.
3. Why the fuck are you trying make Jon a bad guy here? You are saying all this shit about how we need to fix stuff and yet the vast majority of people were mad for like a week and a half and now no one really gives a shit anymore. Go do something yourself before you start to point fingers about how someone else isnt doing enough.
Tino_
And yeah I mean.. this is no different from when someone like Lange left, for example. The only difference is the catalyst was less "Hey I'm gonna turn this into an actual career" and more "Hey this community is mad toxic and I don't want to be in it". This isn't some crazy unprecedented event where a huge contributor leaves our game.
You're allowed to not be happy about the reason, but try to see it from his perspective as an adulting ass adult. Folks move on after a while.
And yeah I mean.. this is no different from when someone like Lange left, for example. The only difference is the catalyst was less "Hey I'm gonna turn this into an actual career" and more "Hey this community is mad toxic and I don't want to be in it". This isn't some crazy unprecedented event where a huge contributor leaves our game.
You're allowed to not be happy about the reason, but try to see it from his perspective as an adulting ass adult. Folks move on after a while.
GetawhaleTino_
And yeah I mean.. this is no different from when someone like Lange left, for example. The only difference is the catalyst was less "Hey I'm gonna turn this into an actual career" and more "Hey this community is mad toxic and I don't want to be in it". This isn't some crazy unprecedented event where a huge contributor leaves our game.
You're allowed to not be happy about the reason, but try to see it from his perspective as an adulting ass adult. Folks move on after a while.
Jon's departure is totally different from Lange's. Jon is actively making sure that nothing he built can be used by the community anymore. I'm sure there would have been an outcry if Lange had taken MGE with him when he left.
Don't get me wrong, I think that what Jon is doing makes sense, even if I wish he wouldn't. Still, equating him and Lange is not accurate.
And yeah I mean.. this is no different from when someone like Lange left, for example. The only difference is the catalyst was less "Hey I'm gonna turn this into an actual career" and more "Hey this community is mad toxic and I don't want to be in it". This isn't some crazy unprecedented event where a huge contributor leaves our game.
You're allowed to not be happy about the reason, but try to see it from his perspective as an adulting ass adult. Folks move on after a while.[/quote]
Jon's departure is totally different from Lange's. Jon is actively making sure that nothing he built can be used by the community anymore. I'm sure there would have been an outcry if Lange had taken MGE with him when he left.
Don't get me wrong, I think that what Jon is doing makes sense, even if I wish he wouldn't. Still, equating him and Lange is not accurate.
Tino_1. Why is it Jon's responsibility to try and fix a game and a community he doesn't actually even engage with outside of a VERY small group of people?
I never once stated it was his responsibility, and I have no clue what mental gymnastics you had go through to assume that. He left this community and he took tools that helped expand interest in tf2 with him.
Tino_2. Optics matter. It's not about "fixing things" for him, it's about being able to show his brand in a respectable way, and what's currently going on is not respectable.
I'm going to do some mental gymnastics too! I assume that you are saying that associating or participating in the competitive tf2 community, you are a racist, bigot, LGBT-phobic and that's why he left? See how assuming can be a flawed logic? Maybe I'm missing some details, but you shouldn't use inside info to explain things away.
Tino_3. Why the fuck are you trying make Jon a bad guy here? You are saying all this shit about how we need to fix stuff and yet the vast majority of people were mad for like a week and a half and now no one really gives a shit anymore. Go do something yourself before you start to point fingers about how someone else inst doing enough.
Battling ignorance is a team effort Tino. When he decided to leave this community he joined a short list of people who also did the same. These people are not here standing up for what they believe in, or what they think is right, they shrank in front of adversity. I'm not saying Jon is a bad person, or a bad guy, but what he did wasn't the right call. You don't have to agree with me, in fact I respect you for calling me out. However, I disagree with your stance.
The problem is people like you who think its over in a week, that the problem is just "fixed". These problems will be around until you die, and you will pass the mantle hopefully to your kids, whom if they are lucky enough will stand up for something in their lives. I'm not afraid to stand up to you, intolerance, hatefulness, or when the opportunity arises, to call out a coward. Jon doesn't owe me anything, but when you make a utility that everyone enjoys, uses and then takes it away because your feelings got hurt; You punish the majority for a minorities mistake?
That's the definition of bullshit.
1. Why is it Jon's responsibility to try and fix a game and a community he doesn't actually even engage with outside of a VERY small group of people?[/quote] I never once stated it was his responsibility, and I have no clue what mental gymnastics you had go through to assume that. He left this community and he took tools that helped expand interest in tf2 with him.
[quote=Tino_]
2. Optics matter. It's not about "fixing things" for him, it's about being able to show his brand in a respectable way, and what's currently going on is not respectable.[/quote]I'm going to do some mental gymnastics too! I assume that you are saying that associating or participating in the competitive tf2 community, you are a racist, bigot, LGBT-phobic and that's why he left? See how assuming can be a flawed logic? Maybe I'm missing some details, but you shouldn't use inside info to explain things away.
[quote=Tino_]
3. Why the fuck are you trying make Jon a bad guy here? You are saying all this shit about how we need to fix stuff and yet the vast majority of people were mad for like a week and a half and now no one really gives a shit anymore. Go do something yourself before you start to point fingers about how someone else inst doing enough.[/quote]
Battling ignorance is a team effort Tino. When he decided to leave this community he joined a short list of people who also did the same. These people are not here standing up for what they believe in, or what they think is right, they shrank in front of adversity. I'm not saying Jon is a bad person, or a bad guy, but what he did wasn't the right call. You don't have to agree with me, in fact I respect you for calling me out. However, I disagree with your stance.
The problem is people like you who think its over in a week, that the problem is just "fixed". These problems will be around until you die, and you will pass the mantle hopefully to your kids, whom if they are lucky enough will stand up for something in their lives. I'm not afraid to stand up to you, intolerance, hatefulness, or when the opportunity arises, to call out a coward. Jon doesn't owe me anything, but when you make a utility that everyone enjoys, uses and then takes it away because your feelings got hurt; You punish the majority for a minorities mistake?
That's the definition of bullshit.
Beelthazus
The problem is people like you who think its over in a week, that the problem is just "fixed". These problems will be around until you die, and you will pass the mantle hopefully to your kids, whom if they are lucky enough will stand up for something in their lives. I'm not afraid to stand up to you, intolerance, hatefulness, or when the opportunity arises, to call out a coward. Jon doesn't owe me anything, but when you make a utility that everyone enjoys, uses and then takes it away because your feelings got hurt; You punish the majority for a minorities mistake?
That's the definition of bullshit.
If Jon had any intention of staying in the community in the first place, I might? agree with you, but as it is he was already done doing anything besides the most basic of maintenance. I don't think it's unreasonable to cut those very last ties as a response to the kind of harassment we saw.
The problem is people like you who think its over in a week, that the problem is just "fixed". These problems will be around until you die, and you will pass the mantle hopefully to your kids, whom if they are lucky enough will stand up for something in their lives. I'm not afraid to stand up to you, intolerance, hatefulness, or when the opportunity arises, to call out a coward. Jon doesn't owe me anything, but when you make a utility that everyone enjoys, uses and then takes it away because your feelings got hurt; You punish the majority for a minorities mistake?
That's the definition of bullshit.[/quote]
If Jon had any intention of staying in the community in the first place, I might? agree with you, but as it is he was already done doing anything besides the most basic of maintenance. I don't think it's unreasonable to cut those very last ties as a response to the kind of harassment we saw.
BeelthazusThe problem is people like you
BeelthazusTakes it away because his feelings got hurt
BeelthazusYou punish the majority
Look I'm not speaking on behalf of GentlemanJon. But if you think he left because his feelings got hurt, and now he's decided to punish people, I would suggest you're not looking at the situation in the right way.
It's ridiculous to think that he may have to come back and post a clarification or response to this outrage at him making this choice. He's an adult, he made a choice, that's it. The end. It sucks, it's unfortunate, it's a lot of things. But to say he shrank in the face of adversity, his feelings got hurt, he made the wrong call. It's his life dude. You can feel that way, but talking about it won't change anything, and neither will trying to imply that he was a coward or backed down or was afraid or a cuck or whatever you're trying to imply.
Also, this shit below.. yikes
BeelthazusYou can't put the blinders on when controversy happens, you have to engage it. If you don't, it changes you for the worst. It inverts the very essence that makes you who you are, it turns casual interest into radicalism and apathy.
You can all be afraid behind your monitors, trembling at the fact that adversity and controversy has invaded your safe space.
[quote=Beelthazus]Takes it away because [i]his feelings got hurt[/i][/quote]
[quote=Beelthazus]You [i]punish[/i] the majority[/quote]
Look I'm not speaking on behalf of GentlemanJon. But if you think he left because his feelings got hurt, and now he's decided to punish people, I would suggest you're not looking at the situation in the right way.
It's ridiculous to think that he may have to come back and post a clarification or response to this outrage at him making this choice. He's an adult, he made a choice, that's it. The end. It sucks, it's unfortunate, it's a lot of things. But to say he shrank in the face of adversity, his feelings got hurt, he made the wrong call. It's his life dude. You can feel that way, but talking about it won't change anything, and neither will trying to imply that he was a coward or backed down or was afraid or a cuck or whatever you're trying to imply.
Also, this shit below.. yikes
[quote=Beelthazus]You can't put the blinders on when controversy happens, you have to engage it. If you don't, it changes you for the worst. [b]It inverts the very essence that makes you who you are, it turns casual interest into radicalism and apathy.
You can all be afraid behind your monitors, trembling at the fact that adversity and controversy has invaded your safe space.[/b][/quote]
Beelthazus I never once stated it was his responsibility, and I have no clue what mental gymnastics you had go through to assume that. He left this community and he took tools that helped expand interest in tf2 with him.
The connotation of your two posts is that jon is a bad person because he is not standing up for "whats right" and taking his IP with him when he leaves. Sounds to me like you are trying to point fingers at him and say he should be doing more. Or is that assessment wrong?
BeelthazusI'm going to do some mental gymnastics too! I assume that you are saying that associating or participating in the competitive tf2 community, you are a racist, bigot, LGBT-phobic and that's why he left? See how assuming can be a flawed logic? Maybe I'm missing some details, but you shouldn't use inside info to explain things away.
No, associating with a nazi doesn't make you a nazi, but it also doesn't do anything good for your image or brand. In the same way that Jon putting his IP out publicly for a community that has a lot of really shitty things going on will not do anything good for his image or brand as a whole.
BeelthazusBattling ignorance is a team effort Tino. When he decided to leave this community he joined a short list of people who also did the same. These people are not here standing up for what they believe in, or what they think is right, they shrank in front of adversity. I'm not saying Jon is a bad person, or a bad guy, but what he did wasn't the right call. You don't have to agree with me, in fact I respect you for calling me out. However, I disagree with your stance.
The problem is people like you who think its over in a week, that the problem is just "fixed". These problems will be around until you die, and you will pass the mantle hopefully to your kids, whom if they are lucky enough will stand up for something in their lives. I'm not afraid to stand up to you, intolerance, hatefulness, or when the opportunity arises, to call out a coward. Jon doesn't owe me anything, but when you make a utility that everyone enjoys, uses and then takes it away because your feelings got hurt; You punish the majority for a minorities mistake?
That's the definition of bullshit.
1. Where did I ever say I thought it was over in a week? I said that the majority of the community doesn't care to do anything anymore.
2. You can stand up for whatever you want, but there was nothing intolerant, hateful or cowardly about what Jon, or me for that matter, has done. Unless you want to actually justify that somehow.
3. Your entire argument that Jon took stuff away because "his feelings got hurt" is so amazingly stupid I don't even know where to start. Ironically its literally the same shit as the morons that just say "ignore it" when racist shit gets flung around, so good job there. Secondly, his feelings didn't get hurt, it was a business decision.
4. The definition of bullshit is you implying that you, or anyone in this community somehow outright deserves the services and the projects that people in the community put together, and that those people are somehow bad people, or wrong, when they decide to kill off said services for any reason.
Your entire post literally comes off as someone who is whining because they didn't get their lollipop, when if you really want to fight for what what you say you do you should probably look at the actual issues instead and work towards fixing those instead of trying to scapegoat and blame the symptoms.
The connotation of your two posts is that jon is a bad person because he is not standing up for "whats right" and taking his IP with him when he leaves. Sounds to me like you are trying to point fingers at him and say he should be doing more. Or is that assessment wrong?
[quote=Beelthazus]
I'm going to do some mental gymnastics too! I assume that you are saying that associating or participating in the competitive tf2 community, you are a racist, bigot, LGBT-phobic and that's why he left? See how assuming can be a flawed logic? Maybe I'm missing some details, but you shouldn't use inside info to explain things away. [/quote]
No, associating with a nazi doesn't make you a nazi, but it also doesn't do anything good for your image or brand. In the same way that Jon putting his IP out publicly for a community that has a lot of really shitty things going on will not do anything good for his image or brand as a whole.
[quote=Beelthazus]
Battling ignorance is a team effort Tino. When he decided to leave this community he joined a short list of people who also did the same. These people are not here standing up for what they believe in, or what they think is right, they shrank in front of adversity. I'm not saying Jon is a bad person, or a bad guy, but what he did wasn't the right call. You don't have to agree with me, in fact I respect you for calling me out. However, I disagree with your stance.
The problem is people like you who think its over in a week, that the problem is just "fixed". These problems will be around until you die, and you will pass the mantle hopefully to your kids, whom if they are lucky enough will stand up for something in their lives. I'm not afraid to stand up to you, intolerance, hatefulness, or when the opportunity arises, to call out a coward. Jon doesn't owe me anything, but when you make a utility that everyone enjoys, uses and then takes it away because your feelings got hurt; You punish the majority for a minorities mistake?
That's the definition of bullshit.[/quote]
1. Where did I ever say I thought it was over in a week? I said that the majority of the community doesn't care to do anything anymore.
2. You can stand up for whatever you want, but there was nothing intolerant, hateful or cowardly about what Jon, or me for that matter, has done. Unless you want to actually justify that somehow.
3. Your entire argument that Jon took stuff away because "his feelings got hurt" is so amazingly stupid I don't even know where to start. Ironically its literally the same shit as the morons that just say "ignore it" when racist shit gets flung around, so good job there. Secondly, his feelings didn't get hurt, it was a business decision.
4. The definition of bullshit is you implying that you, or anyone in this community somehow outright deserves the services and the projects that people in the community put together, and that those people are somehow bad people, or wrong, when they decide to kill off said services for any reason.
Your entire post literally comes off as someone who is whining because they didn't get their lollipop, when if you really want to fight for what what you say you do you should probably look at the actual issues instead and work towards fixing those instead of trying to scapegoat and blame the symptoms.
It takes a lot of effort to keep a publicly available software project running and Jon hosted a bunch of those for free, and he worked on them for free. He deserves a lot of credit for that.
This kind of software starts to rot once you stop working on it, pieces stop working and security problems are no longer fixed. It's better to pull the plug if you don't want to work on it any more, instead of waking up to a huge cloud hosting bill due to someone turning your TF2 stats website into a file sharing hub.
Maybe he'll release the source code some day (try asking him), that's the reason we still have MGE and SOAP-DM, despite Lange being long gone.
This kind of software starts to rot once you stop working on it, pieces stop working and security problems are no longer fixed. It's better to pull the plug if you don't want to work on it any more, instead of waking up to a huge cloud hosting bill due to someone turning your TF2 stats website into a file sharing hub.
Maybe he'll release the source code some day (try asking him), that's the reason we still have MGE and SOAP-DM, despite Lange being long gone.
Beelthazus Jon doesn't owe me anything, but when you make a utility that everyone enjoys, uses and then takes it away because your feelings got hurt; You punish the majority for a minorities mistake?
This reeks of entitlement issues. He has the right to pull out for any reason, without an explanation. It's really that simple. It's not a punishment, it's a revocation of privilege.
[/quote]
This reeks of entitlement issues. He has the right to pull out for any reason, without an explanation. It's really that simple. It's not a punishment, it's a revocation of privilege.
I talked to Tino and Menachem in private. We discussed why jon left, why content creators leave, and the tragedy of all this. I think I misspoke yesterday and everything I said came off very selfish. I won't admit to being entirely wrong, but I will say that my point of view was misguided by the prospective of someone who enjoyed Jon's work more then anyone. He's a content creator, and he has the right to do with his IP what he wishes.
We need more people like Jon to step up and keep making this community great by putting out applications, tutorials, and other forms of content to draw more interest within competitive tf2. Attacking him for pulling the plug on his tf2 projects was both selfish and insensitive. I can admit when I'm wrong. Arie makes some great points as well. I don't regret having this conversation, because It thought me a lesson in user retention and community development.
I think we should get the source code from him if hes willing to give it to us. Christmas maybe saved yet!
We need more people like Jon to step up and keep making this community great by putting out applications, tutorials, and other forms of content to draw more interest within competitive tf2. Attacking him for pulling the plug on his tf2 projects was both selfish and insensitive. I can admit when I'm wrong. Arie makes some great points as well. I don't regret having this conversation, because It thought me a lesson in user retention and community development.
I think we should get the source code from him if hes willing to give it to us. Christmas maybe saved yet!