so we're not allowed to offclass a lot on gravel pit you're saying
k, no gravel pit on mixes... but still.

I'm just saying, offclasses are legit, so long as they're not being absolute shit and not just trolling

I'd like to add, if you have a coach who is offclassing sniper the entire time, or heavy, don't feel intimidated to ask if he should change back.

In Newbie Mixes we only play the core maps: Granary, Badlands and SOMETIMES Gullywash and Snakewater.

when have you ever played gravelpit in a newbie mix?

I got ninja'd so hard by two people.

Coaches will be playing in the Combo: Pocket or Medic. They also should not really need to off class.

I think a more practical solution is to, for the main mixes, just set those class limits to zero. In basic mixes there shouldn't be any offclassing period.

That being said, I do think it would be beneficial to have a section available, where with prior signups have a more advanced class that deals with some of the more finer points of the metagame. Including when to offclass and when not to.

I don't think offclassing should be dealt with so harshly. As a newbie who has been playing in newbie mixes for a while, I have found that most newbies have a fairly good idea of when offclassing is appropriate. As long as the newbie asks the coach for permission, and changes back when requested, I think it should be okay. Truth is, for situations like defending last, Offclassing IS the meta, so you can hardly blame us for wanting to imitate the "pros"

I feel like people should learn to play their main on last. But, knowing how to deal with a heavy/pyro/sniper on last or anywhere else is pretty important, but I think learning to play as your class is much more important. I honestly think it shouldn't be allowed. Almost every last there was offclassing, it's actually really annoying.

Because almost every last in a real match there is offclassing.

The problem with this is that even more people will complain that 6s is too restrictive.

+1

Newbie mixes are for learning the meta AND how to play the core classes. Since the meta includes offclassing, outright banning it would be silly and seem kind of arbitrary.

I have personally not experienced any newbie mixes where people offclassed when they were not supposed to, and there have even been times where a newbie was complimented on his successful offclassing (such as getting a spy pick on the medic before pushing into last).

I agree with OP that situational offclassing has its time and place and its use should be approved by the coach, especially if it is a problem.

Wanting to imitate the pros is understandable, but not something you should do when you're starting out. They do what they do for reasons developed over thousands of hours of competitive play. If you don't understand the reasons, then you probably aren't capable of mimicking them. So when a Scout thinks he can be like clockwork and skips out on the entire midfight to run all the way around for an epic flankz, he finds his entire team wiped because he didn't understand the conditions or communication that goes behind a play like that.

Focus on the basics first. Offclassing should be restricted to holding or pushing last.

as with anything

you learn the rules first, then you learn how to break them

inexperienced players offclassing against other inexperienced players gives both sides a very warped, inaccurate idea of how offclassing truly is in a more organized 6v6 setting

go to tf2lobby if you wanna offclass

It is bullshit that you should only offclass at last(mostly talking about sniper now, but kind of the same goes for other classes too). Why do we then see prem teams doing that even when not at last? I mean sure prem teams can do things better and all that but I still think that they should be allowed to offclass even at other occassions since they can still make advantages by offclassing.

Theres a different #16 between a prem team going for the win, and a couple of newbies going for learning. Offclassing at early levels of comp is not necessary and it is more important someone learns the core classes before dealing with offclassing. That being said I think this is talking mostly about 24/7 offclassing, not bombing when you're holding mid, and coming back sniper to try to get a quick pick and changing back

EU play has a lot more reliance on off classing than US play does just in general, you might see a sniper (if one team has an exceptional sniper) come out 1-2 times outside of last pushing/holding, but it'll only be 1-2 times not the constant sniper to 2 that you see in the EU on process and snakewater. Because sniper is bad just in general assuming the other team knows what to do and is aggressively minded.

That's stupid. I like gullywash and snakewater best. That along with gravlepit and cp_process.
Granary and blands are terrible. Granary mids are just basically who gets the fastest rollout and is the better soldier. Blands is the same, just get spammed out by demo/solly in house and either have scouts and soldiers win mid or die and have to retreat to last basically.