The problem is that it doesn't match the original character conception of Bert the chimney sweep in space, guvnor
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TurinWhy did stark have to spoil the fun?
By his works ye shall know him
ShpeeismeI think it's weird that even official articles blatantly shittalk Sideshow, I would've thought tftv was going to try to mature as an organisation.
Perhaps the author has some kind of grudge. I think we should be told
EmekunNice read as always, tsc.
I think even he doesn't know how he does it sometimes
yukiWe're talking about stabby's comments about 6s and you guys are arguing about language for 1-2 pages. Like, really?
Can you believe anyone gave a shit about stabby's comments about 6s?
smakersHah, you could be completely correct, though I honestly think it's that the average person even in the TF2 community parrots the phrase without having any comprehension of what it actually means. When I think of metagaming, chess and military war games immediately come to mind. In TF2, I think of a last hold and subsequent last push, which, oddly enough, is essentially the opposite of what people are talking about when they use the term "meta" [referring to standard situations].
The terrifying thing is that it's Reddit's world, we're just living in it
SideshowA small gaming community could misuse the word most of the time, without the total population of the world misusing it most of the time. Your point assumes that the gaming community is then imprinting its definition on the wider world.
What normally happens is you end up with an extra definition for the new meaning. The word "literally" has been misused so much that the common misuse has now become an officially recognised acceptable meaning in many dictionaries.
You probably won't even find metagame in most dictionaries. Pretty much nobody in the wider world talks about metagames at all. It's just gamer nerds and academics, although they both mean different things when they use it.
smakersIt is incorrectly used more often than not--most people seem to think that it simply means, "the generally accepted standard" such as, "the sixes meta is 2 scouts, 2 soldiers, 1 demo, 1 medic."
I take the point, but if it's used in a disparaging context (usually the case I think) then the simplification is a case of derogatory hyperbole rather than a lack of understanding, or more likely a combination of both
GetawhaleThe standard 6v6 class composition has no connection to the word "meta" or "meta-game" but yet people insist on using it. It is overused and much of the time, it's incorrect. We're off-message in this thread now though. Believe me, I'm not clueless to the word and its meaning.
I'm not suggesting you are clueless, but in my experience alone I've been hearing it for 25 years around gaming in this exact context. It may be a sub culture but that's easily enough time for it to be valid terminology by any standard.
Edit: I know what you mean, that things like achievements and other aspects of gamification are also metagame, but this isn't new, and it probably pre-dates the internet too, or at least the widespread public use of it.
GetawhaleThis one is a losing battle, I'm afraid. Once enough people on the internet misuse a word, it becomes correct.
The term metagame has been around for decades
Meanwhile Stark championing the viability of 6s Spy in real time
HildrethIt's almost as if there is a whole community of people who don't like 6v6 and have different opinions on the game. Who knew.
This mostly sounds like someone wants to constantly play a lesser class and wants valve's authority behind him to stop people complaining about it, both Dane and stabby.
The practicalities are what will matter to begin with. Bigger teams sizes reduce the effectiveness of skill brackets, increase queue times, and because they're impractical for lan disincentivise valve pushing the esports side.
Theory crafted strats like 6 demos have counters, like bonk scouts or vaccinator medics. But 6 demos is only useful if you're ahead and want to slow down the game which makes it's usage predictable, so choosing the right counter is not random.
That's what a strong metagame is all about. Lots of options and strategic choices. It only becomes a problem when a single lineup is the best in all instances. There is no doubt the MM game will be different to existing competitive formats, and introducing arbitrary limits will just repeat the same alienating patterns that reduce participation.
The product will work best with a minimum of restrictions or explanations being required, you just play tf2. The importance of mechanical skill in the game means individuals will always be able to make a difference.
Putting in class limits will either make queue management impossible or make people's in game experience shitty. The stricter the limits the worse it becomes. 9v9 makes all those problems 50% worse. The queue will take ages because there won't be enough players, the skill system won't work as well, and you won't be able to play what you want more than half the time if you want to play a popular class.
Class limits might come in but they will be loose, and weapon bans will only be through some kind of strategy selection step. If it happens that itself will be a part of the MM meta.
The whole discussion is irrelevant, neither current 6v6 or HL are going to happen because they make no sense for an MM queue, and if you want to play a niche class 100% of the time then all you need to do to shut up anybody complaining is point them to the scoreboard at the end. If you're bottom of the scoreboard maybe they have a point.
Recent updates have killed this plugin and I won't be able to bring it back. Hopefully Valve will continue to improve the spectator experience natively
GetawhaleIt would be lovely if player values fluctuated based on performance. So say for example you pick up a relative unknown player like sen for cheap, and he goes mental on sniper and top frags week 1, his value goes up and you then have more money for other pick ups. Or likewise, if you pay a lot for a player who under performs, their stock falls (and others could pick them up for cheaper, in hopes that their performances improve). Jon's implementation seemed to lack this.
I am disgusted that you failed to notice this