in my experience people don't want to scrim it outside of product week because it's more dm-centric. people would rather practice pushing and positioning as opposed to team dm.

I didn't play when gpit was in the rotation, but I've heard people didn't like pugging/scrimming it back then either. While I can't really argue that it forces teams to think, I'm not sure I like the type thinking required. At first, it will require teams to think about which point they'd like try to defend more, but sooner or later one point will become the "meta" point to try to hold on to, and the other one will become little more than a time sink. Beyond that, what kind of thinking does it require that any other a/d map doesn't? Plus, I think there's an argument to be made that encouraging permanent offclasses is bad since it makes teamfights less interesting.

Also, at least until either a or b becomes the standard point to defend, pugging on this map will almost always be a shitshow.

Definitely want to see tfcl_a10. Dude made a better forward spawn, cut down on some nasty sightlines, and added some props to help with callouts. Really want to formulate more feedback on how it actually plays.

remove two of the best maps, add in one probably good map and one widely disliked map???????

remove granary. alternatively, remove every wall on the map

Honestly I don't get the whole "it's stalematey" argument to begin with. In 5cp stalemates are a real problem; it's possible for both teams to stand to lose more than they could gain by pushing and then spend a long 5 minutes poking at each other until one team gets bored enough to push anyway or bring out offclasses, but in payload and a/d, there's one team whose sole purpose is to push. I don't see why stalemates there would last longer than the time it takes to build an uber.

other than that, mason knows whats up

lmao, that's never occurred to me, that's hilarious. Classic Valve lip service

wow das alotta sentries

hilarious in a good way imo. its not that hard to watch and is just the most blatant flank route, it's great

Improved, but still, you know, warmfront mid, and it keeps warmfront's biggest problem with the big ass house that makes it downright impossible to see what's happening unless you fully commit. In fact the little area under the house might have made that even worse by offering more areas to hide in without having any other incentive to go down there, like a small pack.

This mid somehow strikes this really unpleasant balance between too open and too cramped. There's a lot of physical space, lots of good ways to bomb, and 3 entrances into the mid that are all extremely spaced out from each other but lead into the same areas. On medic, I got killed by easy flanks multiple times as my team attempted to push and I was nearly always left with only one or two of my teammates nearby to protect me as everyone else was forced to spread out in the post fight, trying to lock down chokes, finish off kills, or just get confused on the other side of the house. A scout would go to the other side of the map and get behind us unseen (or forgotten, since the midfights tended to last forever), a soldier would bomb, and I basically got caught between a rock and a hard place nearly every mid once the other team figured this combo out. Between not being able to see what was happening due to the house, the endless flanks, the cramped (if numerous) entrances, and many easy routes for solly bombs, mids started being more about making sure my team killed their med than actually surviving it myself.

As I wrote this out, I changed my mind. Warmfront mid is actually better. At least in warmfront a) it's koth and b) it's cramped enough to force teams to either commit or GTFO. This Kalinka mid is just awful.

I liked a few individual bits. The little ledge above 2nd is fun to play around with. The high ground on last was interesting, especially since it's so accessible to the attackers. But some elements are literally broken. For one, the spawns--plus, I swear on my life the shutter from 2nd to lobby was opened by a ghost a few times, and someone said something about that same shutter refusing to open. Many other parts are simply unfun to play, and by the time I got to my 3rd game on this map today I was considering just asking to be subbed out.

bagel must never leave the rotation until its in the esea pool. people must know how good it is.

on the flip side i played kalinka like 3 times, and uh, not a fan, to say the least. so many flanks, and a ridiculously open mid with the ridiculous coldfront house on it. it was pain

This lamp post collides with rockets and pipes and shit. I strongly feel it should not.

cuz the game really needs it, like holy shit

Also hoping it's possible to get tfcl_a10 in there, it looks like the worst of the sniper sightlines have been corrected. Really wanna hear more people bitch about pl

my heater used to do that

jk it a sp00ky gh0s

I still think these sightlines are kinda silly, but the only one I think is totally unacceptable is this one, which forces red to either play the initial defense without heals or just hold insanely passively.

Love the new garage, even if it does look kinda wonky. But was nerfing sniper on last really a good idea? It's such a stalematey part of the map anyway; sniper's one of the best ways to break it for either side.