It's not

I let the bipolar talk slide during that pastebin thing because APPARENTLY a lot of people had stuff they had to vent or get off their chest.

I am going to address a couple things here, because I am not going to wait for bloodsires article to come out and be potentially watered down by ESEA.

I have played this game since right after college, through grad school, through my work in NYC, and since I moved to Florida to help my aunt who is dieing from Alzheimer's. Since I moved down here I have started my own business and will be soon moving to Denver to move on to bigger and brighter things. It has been very hard but, TF2 was always there to compete with friends and have some social situations on the internet.

Bipolar - The pastebin was interesting seeing people diagnose me as bipolar. Says a lot about people today to be honest. I never responded to it since I actually get quite sad when people talk about Bipolar. Friend who suffered from Manic Depression, jumped off of the B Tower at Ithaca college and bled to death because he felt he had very few friends. Visiting him in his room weeks before to talk about C++ and if he wanted to go play capture the flag still haunts me. So when you call me bipolar I immediately think to the thought, maybe there was more I could do, was it partially my fault? I am not bipolar, I am not bipolar medicated, I am not manic depressive. What you get are tastes of my high level of competition, passion, and required leadership role when my team gets bent over.

Flow -> Mixup -> Fully Torqued -> Top Guns -> Watch This

Running a team in invite is not easy. Maybe its just the top of it actually. You have to deal with politics, you have to have backups, liars, competition, STV watchings, and getting everyones schedule on the right path. So let me you in a little secret here. A number of secrets which I usually keep my mouth shut on.

I already talked about Flow in a previous thread but what I can add about the team is that whenever it is brought up all I ever hear from "friends" or the public is how terrible we did at lan. I remember all the good times. Taking a chance on shrug bug and him raping. Harb and I having some of the most insane ubers I have ever seen. Streaming every scrim or most matches, bringing the public along for our ride. And then being able to play with Ruwin, someone who was always ready for a fun and/or insane push.

Fully Torqued was season 13 -- In the closing weeks of the season, we were prob going to lan. We had Xensity and Chess Club on badlands. For SCHEDULING REASONS, we had two matches in one night. And those matches were both going to be casted by ESEAtv. They expected a close game versus Xensity, we rolled them. We rolled them so hard it guaranteed us a spot at LAN. So at like midnight, we were discussing off classing, were were discussing if we lose to Chess were more likely to finish 4th and play bp, who at the time felt were not as good as Mixup. It came down to the decision - We made LAN, lets off class and have some fun. We off class, I think justin and I were the only ones with a Positive K/D and I was freaking medic. Chess Club literally shit talks us all match in game, nice guys. We lost 5-1, or 5-0. Cbear is holding a hate campaign against us on stream live, nice guy. We got fined by "ESEA" where in reality Killing and Kalkin were the people making a decision. And if Kalkin had his way we would have been much more than fined, hehe. Money was taken out of or checks at LAN. LIterally 30 or 40 bucks from each of us. Which wasn

holy shit

i guess we can end the thread here

Just an fyi

http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=forums&d=topic&id=521995

They picked up their client dev less than a week ago which is why things were messed up. Although they have a dev, jaguar was the sole dev for years. The new guy has a huge undertaking for a long while... entire businesses much bigger than esea find themselves in pretty fucked positions when found in situations like this. you can basically infer that jaguar likely implemented the bitcoin shit assuming that lpkane would consider him too valuable to fire.

administration issues are their own thing I guess, but the client side of stuff isnt really something you can fault them for at this point

lpkane authorized the bitcoin shit. jaguar is a scapegoat.

I don't think you can infer that simply by the closing date on the job listing.

who is grant

b4nny

It is incredibly dumb how subjective each and every situation can be handled by admin discretion because "it's up to the admins."

What? My mind is blown brad, how can you even say that?

Let me set this straight. I didn't try to get my team a forfeit else why would I have even accepted justin on my friends list and go over reschedule options with him? Why would have I agreed to join your mumble to talk about the match and how we could find a fix for it? I told you, we couldn't play Sunday because decimate wasn't here and I don't want to make hero pay 60$. There is no reason anyone on my team should pay for your or ESEA's mistakes.

No, if I wanted the forfeit win that badly I wouldn't have even talked to justin, I would have just ignored his friends request. Why would have I bothered to join your mumble and discuss about how to solve this problem with you if I wanted the win? Yes, rip apart my logic for trying to help my friends whom I played TF2 with for a couple of seasons.

Second of all, I told you I will talk to my team before the match and come up with a solution. I can't take a decision for my team without their consent, that would be just stupid. I needed everyone in mumble and have their say on the matter. If we wanted the forfeit win this wouldn't be on match comms and instead we would have join the server at 11:30 and be ready to get our FFW:

http://i.imgur.com/5JNvuHG.jpg

We waited until pretty much last minute and Killing said that if we don't take the Forfeit Win, he will roll the dice and decide who gets the win between us two. I'm sorry but what did you expect us to do? We can't be the ones held responsible for your problems with ESEA. We have tried to help as much as we could and even offered you a time to play in the next week. The fact that rescheduling after Sunday is impossible isn't our fault.

I have also talked to some of your team members and they seemed to understand our decision, but apparently I just wanted the forfeit win. Even your teammates said that the fact that we got the FFW isn't what made hell break lose, it was the fact that ESEA screwed you over by not canceling your E-Checks and rescheduling our match.

I still consider you a friend even given this stupid situation, but please lets not fight over a dumb videogame. I don't enjoy engaging in such arguments but throwing me and my team under the bus when we tried to help you just isn't fair.

Good luck in your future endeavours and hopefully we will get to meet again in the future, despite this whole fiasco I still think you are cool in person.

Edit: The reason why I told you I'm not sure on which days we can play on even though I said in the BELOW AVERAGE match comms we can play on any day besides Sunday is because I prioritize iT and Below Average as we are playing them this week. I had to schedule with them first and then see the possible dates, hence why justin posted a 2nd rescheduling request for next Wednesday instead of Thursday (which we ACCEPTED).

The best part is, blaze and justin paid with e-checks which take forever to process. ESEA could have canceled the echecks and then they could have paid with paypal which processes almost instantly. Killing told Watch This that there is no way an echeck can be canceled. Torbull ended up canceling the checks the next day.

you can also instantly get banned for payment evasion that way

canceling echecks have to be done by the receiver

I should have been more clear, you can cancel your premium subscription instantly through paypal which will also cancel your echeck. Since you don't get premium until your echeck goes through, you're not evading anything.

edit: typo

edit2: if you wait too long, ESEA can claim the check, then you just have to wait for your premium.

It's not fair for people (where most of whom don't know you) to be calling you bipolar just because you've had some controversial opinions/have been involved in invite drama before. It seems to me you've been screwed over by ESEA pretty hard over the years, thanks for sticking with it as long as you did. And while I don't always agree with you, I respect you for having opinions and stating them, it's very often a mark of good character. Best of luck to you in the future Mr. Ross, and hopefully you'll return someday to a better league :)

ESEA's product is dependent upon players using their client. If the client doesn't work, it's their fault.

was looking forward to playing against you on med this season brad. unfortunate how things turned out. wish you the best of luck in the future man.

I never got the impression alfa's team wanted to forfeit us, as you can see in the match comms they actually agreed to two seperate dates, I didn't typo the first one.

Brad also forgot to mention S13 his video card fried right before our match against AG. We all joined the server hoping for it to be fixed, and then after 30 minutes (server becomes unplayable at this point) we told AG we'd keep them updated on Brad's situation and agreed to a reschedule. They then messaged Killing or Kalkin on steam and told them to forfeit us, which they obliged without even talking to us. After quite the hassle, they informed us the match would come down to a coin flip if both teams couldn't agree to a match time. AG obviously didn't want to schedule with us because a 50/50 coin flip had better odds of actually beating us. This begs the question, if the admins don't allow teams a bit of leeway, what prevents someone from just taking a coin flip? If you're the 9th seed vs the 1st seed, why even play?

hold ur fuckin roll son.

AG could have ffw'd you in the server but elected not to because we really wanted to play that match.

The admins never gave AG a ffw for that game. Even though AG had 6 and you had 5. EVER.

Why on earth would we elect to not take a ffw (100% chance of winning) vs letting the admins make do a coin flip (50%)???

it's because we wanted to play the goddam match / didn't want to be ffw'ing dorks. We asked you guys to play that match multiple times, we wanted to play a double header, you dodged us then and then dodged any other days that we asked to play.

It's not really that we're a secret, ESEA is in fact the only way we as a community really get exposure anymore. It's just that they're making it increasingly obvious that they are purely a business with no interest in the players and only in it for the money. And if they get a massive majority of their income from CS with a negligible segment of it in TF2, what's the point of keeping it? It's not about shaming us, it costs money to keep servers up and to pay admins and to make the client compatible, and right now money is obviously the bottom line instead of customer satisfaction.

I checked on the site, and in NA, there's 304 CS:GO teams registered this season (9 invite, 30 main, 39 IM, 226 open). You could also add the 22 1.6 teams, I guess. Meanwhile, there's 85 TF2 teams right now (9 invite, 10 main, 16 IM, and 50 open). That's not even going into Europe, where we have IIRC 20-some TF2 teams and a full complement of CS teams probably equal or close to the total for NA. Honestly, if most of us left, it would be easier for ESEA to shut down their TF2 league, or at best reduce it to just Open, and make up the lost income by shutting down TF2 servers and getting rid of Kiling/Kalkin. They have a lot more money going into CS, and tens of thousands of people watching Invite CS on their channels regularly. And what do we have to go to in NA? Sure, you have ETF2L over there which is stronger than ESEA ATM, but over here, we have one scrub league and one underdeveloped league which doesn't currently have the divisions or resources necessary to support a leading TF2 client-based league. And let's not even go into our constant desire for a LAN.

Communication breakdown :(

I wasn't planning on saying anything because this is basically a no-win situation. I'm not sure why I decided to write this but I guess it really can't get much worse.

The theme of the day is exceptions. I'm going to present this as objectively as possible so forgive me if it's dry.

Part 1

We'll start here:

http://play.esea.net/index.php?s=support&d=faq&id=94

We cannot cancel an e-Check Premium payment. Once the payment has been made it must clear, or fail, in order for you to either have premium, or be able to make a new payment.

A large part of this whole debacle leans on the eCheck ordeal. I have very limited information about eChecks and how they work so I can only give you what I believe I know. From what I've learnt from this match, I'm quite certain that Craig is the only person in the company that can cancel eChecks. I can't, Carson can't, my boss can't. We always get plenty of tickets regarding eChecks, hundreds. To both Craig everytime someone wants to get their eCheck cancelled seems a bit much. Reading what an eChecks means + our FAQ will normally stear you away from using them.

No exception was made that they were invite players therefore they should get priority when it comes to getting eChecks cancelled.

Part 2

September 30th I sent off an ESEA message to Brad telling him to get the 3 remaining members paid up for the regular season. After losing his 7.5%, Justin and Brad refused to ever talk to me again so this is basically our only line of communication. I also told him in pugs to pay up about a week later but I believe this was the most "official" form of communication.

When registration closes, I yell at everyone to get their league fees paid. If it were up to me, Brad's team would have been removed as they didn't pay until about a month later. This is basically where my case lies. Had watch this listened to me + the rules and paid up on time, this thread would not exist, brad's team would be alive and we'd be mad about the client. I'm mad about the client, it's extremely frustrating BUT it had nothing to do with this match.

Part 3

There's a large amount of misinformation due to how ESEA used to be run (S2-S8ish). I was lax back then and would let invite teams, for the most part, walk all over me. I set it for when they wanted it. Obviously that changed. Unless I hardcore fucked up, I doubt you can find a match past S10ish that was rescheduled past it's following week when it was

A)Not ESEA client update
B)Not a re-game (i.e. rounds had to be replayed)
C)I had granted an extension to all matches at that time

There are no exceptions made due to user error. If it is, I fucked up and should be told but rarely does that occur. This includes:

A)Paying with eCheck
B)Getting payment cancelled and you have to wait an hour
C)Having user-specific client problems (i.e. the general userbase is not affected)

With that said, this fell into the user error rather than the ESEA error. Everyone knows paying with eChecks take a long time, FAQ states they will not be cancelled, everyone is told to pay up for registration deadline. Despite all signs to pay right now, watch this did not.

Part 4

With that in mind, many say I should have made an exception for watch this. I think these are the two main points:

A)Client was fucked up all week, other matches were being rescheduled

As I said before, when it is on our side, we give time for you to reschedule. Albeit the client created a frustrating start, if this was watch this' first match and there was no client issues, we'd be sitting here talking about the exact same thing.

B)They had tickets open previous without being answered

I'm not sure why no one answered them but the ESEA admin response would be a link to the FAQ. Every ticket that can be answered with an FAQ should be done so. With that said, nothing would have changed in their situation.

C)You always just push invite matches and make exception, why not now?

Like I said, I haven't been letting inviters do whatever the fuck they want since around S8-S9. This was not a circumstance where I was going to.

D)There is a rule that says admins can change anything at any time, why not now?

It's quite simple, I never make exceptions. I just don't. Exceptions are possibly the worst thing possible because they are unclear and are not transparent. This basically brings up two things imo had I invoked this rule.

1)Does this mean I make an exception whenever I want?

Didn't we just go past an offseason where we agreed there should be no exceptions for weapons and I should just ban everything that gets updated? Specifically for scheduling, at what point should I not reschedule? If brad tries to pay minutes before his match and it doesn't work should I push it? If an open team tries to pay minutes before their match and it doesn't work, should I push it? If an open team says one of their members has a family emergency, should I push it?

Not using this rule, to me, enforces two things. No invite favouritism and clearly avoiding a slippery slop of reschedules.

2)Should I bend the rules for every team that holds their team hostage?

I would have loved to have watch this in our season. I think everyone can agree that they were the most exciting team in invite (at least in my opinion). But switching my decision just because a team says they are going to die if I don't is another road I don't want to go down. I agree that it's extreme but I don't want the next thing for inviters to use on me is the "The season will be boring without us".

I really don't feel like making a TLDR because I think you need to read the entire thing to try and understand my POV. I respect every player on watch this both as competitor and just as people. I honestly have not found a single person to be unpleasant at LAN even after the stuff I sometimes have to do. It it is also 100% within their rights to hate me all the way to their bones. There's been plenty of decisions that I wish I had went another way but this is not one of them.

I apologize Alfa

What a read that was killing.

http://www.netanimations.net/read_e0.gif

I'm happy that you decide to stick with your decisions though. Exceptions are not very transparent as you said. Thanks for giving everyone a response to the situation, it was not a waste of time for you to post that.

Was there some public turning point in your stance towards Invite rule-bending, Killing? I'm just wondering if this hardline thing you are talking about might not have been fully registered throughout invite (albeit after a handful of seasons...)

Thank you for contributing your thoughts to the discussion, although I will say that I'm disappointed by how long you held your tongue. Maybe though, this is lose-lose as you say.

I think that's the only thing I disagree with of your whole essay, killing. I've never understood why invite gets to not pay the league fees after registration closes and still play.

That was around when I came onto the admin team. After that we no longer allowed exceptions for invite. There were a couple of changes that we made around then.