The rules were followed as stated, it's just that the punishment is too harsh. That's definitely something worth overturning the round or match for, but definitely not deserving of a ban, especially on first offense.

The only way that I could think that this could be overturned back in your favor was if you had recorded not just what happened but also the coms that were happening at that time. Just because you are on your teams cam doesnt mean that you couldnt have been calling enemy teams health or using the third person to try and spot things that your team couldnt see. (Remember while in a comp config it restricts you to first person while in pubs it allows you to use third person while dead). Because you have yet to provide this I think the it would be hard to justify unbanning you just for the fact that the admins really dont know what you were doing and you had 23 seconds to join back and didnt. There were tell tale signs that you were in spec, 3rd person, seeing other teams health and uber, some guy on defense saying ????????/ after you joined.

Who would have thought

so my teammate who kind of deserved to get banned for toxicity got banned for something he did a month ago. But the thing that pisses me off is that a CHEATER who WON AM GF has not been banned yet. like dude his cheats where more obvious than MXR's. his teammate got banned for continued harassment. and the cheater is banned from UGC for cheating. Like who runs the anti cheat on RGL who is this fucking jabroni.

actually nvm after reading comments i was convinced
it was an accident + had no impact because of deadtime (an important thing I glossed over at first)
ban reason being "ghosting" makes no sense
doesn't deserve a ban, minor warning at the most

if its true this lolguy abused the uber glitch bug without consequence as an madmin, why hasnt he been punished yet? removal of his position and overturning the round would be at least happening here, or does RGL really not give a fuck about its "standards"??

again not saying that lolguy should be punished, just pointing out inconsistency, it did happen tho. Also lolguy isn't an admin i don't think.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/987973937?t=01h49m30s

oh i misread this part then

by ignoring the sentence before it. Oops..

i wonder how clockwork chooses which thread to post on every year

the word rgl is on it

i guarantee if someone makes a kovaacs thread clock posts in it and calls out some morons lmao

if you watched the clip and the takeaway was 'nah this guy deserves a month ban' idk what to tell you. man spent 23 whole seconds!! enjoying not having to play prolander, and he gets fucked by a 'community' league that still hasn't figured out warnings or punishments based on severity. see yall in a month for the next one.

Bans are arguably the harshest form of punishment any league can hand out. It can be assumed that for most people who play competitive tf2, gaming is a large aspect of their life. Additionally, it may also be a rather social element of their lives considering how small/tight-knit our community is. Banning someone, even for a month, can make it practically impossible for them to play their favorite game for several months. Keeping in line with the sports analogies, that would be similar to someone getting a tripping violation in hockey but instead of getting put into the penalty box, they also are now forbidden from playing hockey for a month. In terms of competitive tf2, there is no viable alternative. Getting banned makes it impossible for people who legitimately care about the game in a competitive setting, from getting any sort of satisfaction/enjoyment from the game. Banning people for stupid mistakes, for such a long time, serves no purpose to protect the community at large. Overturning the match would have been sufficient, but this ban is cruel and extremely uncalled for. I hope RGL can reflect on the issues raised in this thread, and hopefully, no more month-long bans (mind you calling someone the n-word in a match is only a 2 week ban) are handed out to players who made silly mistakes, that had 0 impacts on the outcome of the match.

I am sorry for the long post. I've thought a lot about this, and I just want to put some points out:

You know what I never understood about bans is that if the first punishment is 1 month, then won't that lead to players leaving and not joining (in that respective division)?

Why would you want to ban someone for 1 month, disregaring egregious acts? What is the point other than, "Teaching them a lesson"? There is no good justification other than both your own satisfaction of banning someone and boosting your "numbers". Rather, consider smaller (2 matches, 1 week, 2 weeks max) first-term bans with compounding time afterwards? A great example of this would be the following:

I'm a bad person and I knowingly used a game exploit.
An admin bans me for 1 week (2 matches).
I don't learn my lesson; I again knowingly used another game exploit.
I recieve a ban for 2 weeks (another 4 matches).
...ect, doubling my ban time each instance

This results in me either learning a lesson that I shouldn't use a game exploit or it results in me becoming essentially permanently banned. 2 matches is already enough for some teams to get really screwed over, why would you want to increase that on the initial ban? If the acts of a single person means the team has to scramble to get someone to cover for the next few months or more, that kinda seems like a punishment to the whole team. Why would you want to punish the team? 2 ringers for 1 week I think is fine, but if the person keeps doing it then it may be likely that the team leader would cut that individual. This kinda solves the problem with people who keep pushing your limits, because eventually no team would want to play with that individual. Also, why is it that bans are always weeks or months late? What happened to consequences for actions? It certainly feels like you can go a long way before bans (Not talking AC here) are actually applied, thus giving the illusion that an individuals' actions were justified, until oops! We're banning you now for something that happened a week ago.

I also want to talk the topic of ban reasons. If punishments and their reasons made sense, then it would reduce the people 'targeting' or otherwise pushing your boundaries. Your boundaries could be as stiff as steel and as clear as glass, and people would still want to cross that line beacuse they want to see you ban players, like a joke. There's no reason to keep information from people for your own good. There is no reason to create long paragraphs of ban reasons. Instead, becoming more clear and specific with examples of rules (this is done, but not very much- I'll give some credit) broken will greatly help reduce the amount of times someone gets confused by a ban and makes it a larger deal than it should.

Consider applying different strategies to punishments, and you'll see a much greater interest in the league as a whole. Your whole reasoning and thought process is ran by a total of 3 people, and it's easily your weakest link. I really hope that with this viewpoint and GeneralNick's post that a goal is made to help reform punishments to actually solve issues that are being seen now.

It upsets me people are going to think hockey has 3 pointers and shot clocks just because Clockwork said it.

Playing med in pugs isn't that bad to warrant a spec bind man. I'd take this as a reason to remap it.

Dude doesn't deserve a ban, a warning in his name at most, and maybe default loss, this man got no better information than what he would've got if he were in the respawn queue. 23s is a long time though. Idk about you guys but I look at the respawn timer when I'm dead, and seeing it not there I'd be concerned I'm in spec at that point.

Also is this the Jacohi that throws temper tantrums when they die/lose or is that another Jacohi?

Imagine if ur pugs didnt use last to spec
The future is now!

still don't know why i'm at all involved in this thread anymore but on a serious note, people comparing the punishment philosophies of organizations like the NHL and NBA, or even esports leagues like OWL, LCS, etc. just completely miss the point. these leagues and games have the luxury of being extremely popular and lucrative. there is no shortage of reasons for people to continue pursuing competitive play for these leagues.

this is fucking tf2. there are not many people who play this game and cultivating a "for the community" approach should be the number 1 priority for the league. handing out severe punishments for even the most minor of offenses will do nothing but thin the playerbase. and there's nothing in this game but pride, so if they get banned and lose out on a season of playing the game, they might just not play the next season. i've seen similar things happen many times before, with players much more well known who have a lot more to lose. pure literally quit our team in esea after they didn't let us reschedule or fix a payment issue that left us forfeiting our first match. he felt that it wasn't worth the headache to play for a league that clearly wasn't player-focused at all. and that had a significant effect on the outcome of that season. we were one of the best teams pre-season and easily would've been fighting for first place had that not happened. that's the kind of shit you risk when a league makes it too difficult to play a game you only play for fun.

I completely agree with this line of thinking. And even if it becomes annoying (how many times do we have to extend the ban for this kid to finally give up or reform???), it's the mindset you have to have if you care about the community. every current player, whether they're ghosting for 10 seconds, forgetting to record a demo, hitting a spec bind by accident, or even exploiting bugs is someone you should look at as a future community leader rather than a pest you want to get rid of.

as I have said (here for instance: https://www.teamfortress.tv/post/1035702/rgl-announces-upcoming-summer-seasons-and-preseason-events) this is the crux of every single RGL issue.

Just make CW the RGL admin

im sure he would love to more than anything

Remember when ESEA literally almost cut TF2 because someone in invite didnt want to replace a mouse?

Nick, while you are on the forums:

https://i.ibb.co/Pw22zm3/Screen-Shot-2021-05-19-at-7-23-17-AM.png

https://i.ibb.co/9Npy6cJ/Screen-Shot-2021-05-19-at-7-26-08-AM.png

thats way too many words to read about open player drama sorry brock

that doesn't even make sense in that context

u care so much

yea, why you dont? or you just rock the item showcase with your medals because everything is a meme?

Fulfilling my obligation to post in every "RGL Bad" thread.

See you next month.

okay i read through it out of boredom and i agree with him u are a retard lmao

i do think that the way RGL does it where it only gives u medals for playing a certain percentage of games is much better, but nobody gives a shit about ugc and it wont change

do they actually have any sort of system to actually accomplish this? they don't even link to match logs or anything anywhere on the site so idk how they're checking who's playing and who's not

prob dependent on who's paid up on the roster

sadge

From what I remember in reading RGL rules, you don't even need to play a match. You just have to be paid up and have been on the roster for half the season.