jay

dd5f

jay ruined a whole generation of roamers..............

The Market Gardener and its consequences have been a disaster for the TF2 playerbase.
It has greatly decreased the life-expectancy of those of us who play in "advanced" divisions, and it has destabilized society, has made life unfulfilling, has subjected human beings to indignities, has led to widespread psychological suffering (in the Third World [Open] to physical suffering as well) and has inflicted severe damage on the natural world. It's continued development of technology will worsen the situation. It will certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage on the natural world, it will probably lead to greater social disruption and psychological suffering, and it may lead to increased physical suffering even in "advanced" divisions.

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it was just always slept on. its a very high skill ceiling weapon that has a lot of depth to it. ive heard ppl whine about it being op but pretty much every kill ive gotten with it couldve been prevented if the player i hit just played better, so its balanced. these are my favorite clips ive gotten with it:
https://youtu.be/xhY6dH8ZKUU?t=42
https://youtu.be/sz8wW2U-myQ?t=44
https://youtu.be/k8_eWgNaV8o?t=116

I don't have a strong opinion on whether the Market Gardener is balanced or healthy, but

is absolutely nonsense logic.

probably the exact opposite of what the weapon actually is

soldier players collectively forgot how fun it is to get escape plan kills

Reject modernity. Return to escape plan

Also a shame how few soldiers have experimented with the pain train recently. Some soldiers seem to prioritize getting damage and kills with spoon over helping your team with the pain train. On maps where a scout is more valuable than a soldier (almost all of them) it’s much better to leave a soldier to cap points than a scout

ill be fair to u and say most ppl react very poorly against it which makes it easier than it should be, but it also doesnt take anything for u to say its ez, u just wouldnt know - u dont use it when u should. its a shame too since i know ur an ok jumper.

over the years i havent seen a single person extensively use pain train since seagull except for me until recently. ill give credit where its due, marmaloo and ash have used it and done a lot of good with it. its an objectively great weapon, but market gardener is definitely not stopping ppl from running it. if anything its the complete opposite lol.

as for the euro, i rly cant think of a kill i got where the player clearly didnt have another option, at least not one where he wouldntve died anyways. each clip i posted its clear what those players couldve done to prevent their deaths, dying to market gardener is just the result of incompetence. i wont lie tho, ive had some moments where i fed to it too, i just need to learn how to prevent it entirely.

BASED UNAPOSTER

yea lolguy, just be better when soapy bhops at u with the spoon

pretty much. i know u want me to read this in a sarcastic tone but improving isnt as incredible as u make it sound. lolguys a lot more talented than pretty much every med playing, so im sure u might think its unfair to see him die to the same stuff u do, but maybe thats why ull always be worse than him.

pain train alone won us season 29

Nothing about market gardener is fun or intresting imo. I know there is some skill to it but it just feels cheezy being on either side of it

stop trying to promote your poorly edited fragclips

promotes not the word to use. its also just raw footage, u give me too much credit if u think id edit anything lmfaoo. ill give u 2 reasons to show those tho. 1 it shows how much cool shit u can do with the wep and 2 it shows that everyone who died to me couldve prevented it if they just played better, which are the 2 main points im making for why market gardeners fine. would hate to see the wep get banned cuz ppl cant just learn how to deal with it, bad players dont deserve to prosper.

wonder thinks this is his thread for some reason

people used to smugly hate it as a pubber (read: cringe subhuman casual gamer) weapon even while dd5f was running around with basically an extra rocket. It's just far better than living an extra 1% of the time with the escape plan

People hate it but the truth will always be that your average soldier equips the spoon together with their clown make-up. There is only a few people that have the mechanics required to be consistently good with it and they are the only reason threads like this are created in the first place.

i love the spoom to troll my teammates

Spoon is easy. Self control is not easy

I admit I have a lot of fun (ab)using it, but...
It's an insanely good weapon that also happens to be incredibly easy to use, and it takes the skill away from the player who's getting spooned. All of this makes it overpowered and unfair, imo.
Then again, things change when talking about top-level competition, which is why only very few people through tf2 comp history were able to use it effectively in playoffs/grand finals (see dd5f, nubbi and of course above all jay).

it shares the same problems as sniper, where u can simultaneously be frustrated with ur pug teammates feeding with it while getting bullshit instakilled by it from the good player on the other team

also enough of this “just get better/just juke it lol”. I’m not even apart of the it needs to be gone bandwagon, I think the weapon requires legit skill, and it’s a trade off to go for the funny one shot (in a game with notoriously awful melee hitreg) instead of just vomiting all ur rockets out while ur in the air (which for a player like me, will always be more consistent). That being said, a skilled soldier can literally just do 80% horizontal jumps into your character model, and there’s literally no where to strafe too/juke too. The soldier can simply move too fast and can strafe directly into your character model where u can only try to matador style juke him (which btw @wonder u strafe slower on medic side to side than a decent soldier can strafe in the air lol) and PRAY they fuck up the timing.

I still don’t know how I feel about banning it as it feels not horribly unbalanced, it requires skill to use and melee hitreg is shotty, plus in most scenarios where u go for a spoon, shooting rockets would be arguably better unless ur hitting most spoons. But ya enough of this “U can Just Counterplay it Lol!!!!”. getting bhop spooned or having someone fly into ur model with good timing feels absolutely impossible to counter play, but in my eyes it doesn’t feel that much different from when someone headshot directs u on a high bomb and hits the easy 2nd rocket, but with that u really do have a chance to counterplay and surf. but ya the whole “just run under the spoon guy and they can hit u” bit simply does not work against good players, u can just horizontally jump into people and stuff ur spoon inside them, all u have to do is time it

over time as people's mechanics got better and better it became more viable for the average player to run it and the players with the best mechanics/jumps will find ways to push weapons to the next level / inspire people to try them out and do the same.

It's the same reason people wanna play sniper. they saw someone hit a nutty clip once and they wanna do it too

probably subtracts more from the game than it adds
it's also another thing that makes medic unfun so there's that
also no matter how good you are with it/vs it sometimes it's literally just rng whether it hits you or not (milk vs pop in these situations is just stupid)