Correct that Hamas is pure evil. Not correct that IDF is pure good. More like chaotic good for me. I would change my viewpoint if you could... prove me wrong. But you cannot. Where are the sources you posted that I ignored?

Hm... protests... were allowed... in a democracy? Damn, that's kinda proving my point. Where are all the protests in the Hamas dictatorship? Oh wait. The judicial reform was also great and not undemocratic. Israeli judiciary has way too much power.

No, but that wouldn't mean the IDF shouldn't have done that from a strategic point of view. The rules of war completely allow it, if they took the necessary precautions to reduce civilian casualties. If there is anyone to blame, it's Hamas because they use civilian buildings. I'd hate Hamas.

If this were true, I wouldn't condemn settler violence in West Bank, or acknowledge at least a small amount of bombings by Israel were inadequate. Where is the bullshit propaganda?

30k have died (not really but whatever) because Hamas uses them as human shields. Let's hate Hamas together for this!

Answer the question I asked you: If, god forbid, your mother was killed while the IDF was bombing apartment buildings saying they wanted to kill Hamas, would you be satisfied? would you say "oh well they took the appropriate steps, so whatever!"?

Hahahah guys actually we don't hate jews. We changed our mind in 2017. Now we only hate zionists. Do you listen to yourself? What is there to clarify when the original charters says JEWS should be KILLED? Clearly a PR move.

so you just base your arguments on your own personal opinions? Your assumptions are apparently equivalent to facts? This is a common thing you've done, whenever you come across anything that proves you wrong, you simply call it a lie, falsified, etc. But then in that same exact breath, you will quote IDF sources as if they arent inherently biased. You can't cherry pick stats & sources like this, it shows a lack of skills in researching and formulating your opinions & ideas.

They wouldn't have any justification for it, because now the only justification is that Hamas uses civilian buildings.

Again you bring up the human shield narrative. Regardless of that, what to you constitutes a "military base of operations"? Because when that hospital was bombed to shit because IDF said there was a hamas base underneath, the pictures they took showed 3-4 rifles, and then boots and books. Please tell me if that justifies the levelling of hospitals, schools, churches, masjids, etc.

They will stop if Hamas stops lol. Even if they wanted not to, they would have to cave to external and internal pressures. You know, because Israel is a democracy.

wow more just blatant lies, who would have guessed. In the history of Palestine and the existence of Israel, do you have any proof to back up the idea that Israel will simply stop? They are the aggressors. They are not even a democracy, just look at the judicial reforms. You seem to think that since Israel is a "democracy" that they are infallible and impervious to evil/corruption.

Camp David Summit was going to give 100% of Gaza and 91% of West Bank to Palestine. Even parts of Jerusalem iirc. This is not the majority. Are we going by some weird "historical" Palestinian lands some of which were never really owned by the Palestinian state, and which now Jews live on?

Oh, thats so considerate. After kicking me out of my house and letting me live in the basement, you say that you will only take 10% of that basement for yourself, thats so considerate! leaving 90% of a humid basement! I don't know if you are willingly ignorant or just this stupid, but there are countless documents out there reporting stats and figures about the extent to which Palestinians inhabited the land that is now Israel before 1948, before the Nakba. You can look for yourself, and finally come to the conclusion that they were kicked out of land they were living in, relegated to some tiny pockets, and are expected to be happy that they can live in 10% of the land they used to live in.

Russia was wrong to invade, and they committed war crimes per the ICC. They don't deserve any of Crimea. The analogy does not work in the least. Israel and Palestine are also one country technically. Jews now live on those lands and you want to expel them. They will say no, and you will use force, killing them.

But how do you know? Crimea had a referendum that said they liked Russia, didnt they? All that aside, you yourself said that Jews NOW live on those lands. It's like your own subconscious is screaming at you. You are right that they are one country, because even what constitutes "Palestine" is occupied and strictly governed by Israel with their apartheid system.

Hamas claimed 50 of the 200 or so people killed by the IDF were their militants. Looks like a great ratio to me!

Did you know that in WW2, according to your precious non-hamas sources, the civilian casualty ratio was in the 60%s, that included deaths from the many famines not to mention bombings and such. In the Great March of Return, it is 75%. You call that good? All of this is beginning to make me think that you think killing innocent civilian protesters is okay, so long as a few "militants" are also killed in the bunch. I thought you valued democracy so much??? what happened?

If you ever had a thought come across your consciousness about this topic along the lines of "Man I always knew this was a problem, but how the hell did we get here?", ironically this tftv thread reflects a lot of the issues regarding the political discourse of this topic. As someone who has followed it closely quite literally half my life, it was already to hear the main talking point be "I'm not very interested in getting into the politics of this one" but seeing it switch to "I'm not interested in hearing what anyone has to say other than those who agree with me" is discouraging, so I choose not to participate most of the time now. It seems as if most people are unserious in general and it probably isn't worth the time spent arguing to a brick wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAyrW0klQkM

https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject/videos
- These two stories are quite interesting (although there are several more) because he gets stopped by Palestinians all the time because they are reluctant to record themselves speaking their mind freely at times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GedfUH74-jk and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYWn2LfKeKg

But I recommend watching all the videos from Corey. Very insightful.

admittedly the second channel you linked is quite interesting, but the first video you posted reeks of narcissistic centrism. it doesn't require a lack of empathy for the lost lives of any israeli to be anti zionist. being pro palestine does not mandate the celebration of innocent lives lost. posters like the ones he is hanging up only serve to insert confusion and muddy the waters of what is a genocidal occupation of land that israel has no business occupying

i can appreciate that empathy is important but what you've shared is not an ideologically-netural enlightened stance, its just basic liberal zionism. there are plenty of nominally "left-wing" israelis and israeli politics that would tell you (in many cases sincerely) that loss of palestinian life is a tragedy and that they just wish they could live together in peace. that israel is a good place that happens to be doing bad things, and its existence is self-evidently just
but if you actually tease this ideology apart, if you actually inquire why israel has to push palestinians out rather than make them equal citizens, why israel is so adament about recruiting new settlers, or what they think of the right of return for palestinians (an internationally-recognized right) and you will be shocked how quickly the humanist appearcance switches to talks of demographic rates, arabization, and maintaining ethnic purity.
so no, i dont find this kind of stuff very insightful. because at best youll find people who will condemn the nakba or maybe even condemn the current genocide but who would be entirely resistant to rectifying them and at worst a well-spoken ethnic supremacist who cries crocodile tears as they continue to benefit from the erasure and cleansing of palestine

I appreciate the response but a lot is going on here (don't mean to be some sort of grammar police, just a lot of ideas at once). I don't think that was the point of the video at all. I interpreted it as highlighting the ludicrosity of the ones who do claim it requires a lack of empathy to be pro-Palestinian/pro-Israeli (something very prevalent in the discourse over the last two decades). Maybe you could clarify your position or maybe I misinterpreted your original reply.

I guess our definitions of "liberal Zionism" are different. However, I don't think that is important to find out. If by Israel you mean Netanyahu and the Likud party (especially since he's retaken power), then I can't say you are far off. But if this is what you think the majority of Israelis think, it's just my opinion that that is a naïve conclusion to come to. I've got to ask, do you believe that Jews around the world have a right to live there too if they choose to do so? Again, appreciate the responses.

Any Jewish person who thinks they have the right to pledge allegiance, become nationalized to a part of the world they have never been to and have no roots in, and move to said region that native people have been forced out of, is part of the problem. I'm not saying Jewish people have no right to live in the region, as that area has been home to people of all faiths, but every foreign settler is straight up playing a role in the genocide.

Here is a group of public opinion polls in israel: https://en.idi.org.il/articles/51198 (this is an israeli organization so you could argue that they may overrepresent the popularity of the state's actions)

What i want to point out is that yes, netanyahu is unpopular among the israeli "left". But as this poll shows a main split between left and right is that the right wants to wait until the so-called war is over to figure out blame fot the "failure of october 7th" whereas the "left" doesnt (or rather still dows but just kinda less so".

Combined with the fact that an insane 80 PERCENT of the israeli "left" are more trusting of the IDF than netanyahu this clearly paints the grim picture that the Israeli "left" doesnt have a problem with the ongoing genocide, otherwise they would trust the idk carrying it out, but instead just dont like that netanyahu let oct 7 happen

so yes, liberal zionists are pretty much exactly like ive described. people who are truly anti-zionist tend to leave israel if able

Jews lived in Palestine before zionism was invented and im sure they will live in Palestine after it is defeated. If you're asking if every Israeli citizen can rest assured that they get to keep going on as usual just under a palestinian state then the answer is no, settlers still need to be ousted from homes they dont own, war criminals and genociders still need to stand trial.

A few fallacies in your point. First and foremost, Jews have a deep and rich history in the land. That is undeniable. I don't know why a Jew immigrating to the land (past, present, or future) has to have any association with forcing Palestinians out of their home. There should be a coexistence regardless of whether the governing body has a nationality behind it or not. I understand there are certain instances that which this has happened, and individuals must be held accountable for these actions, but to deny either group the right to self-determination is flat-out wrong, and that goes for all Jews too. I think people tend to discredit the expansiveness of the Jewish diaspora. It is of no fault because of the Palestinians of course, but many Jews who were expelled from their ancestral homeland went to Iraq, Yemen, Iran, Lebanon, etc, only to be kicked out of those homes again down the road on numerous occasions (most recently in 1948). I doubt that the descendants of those people, who make up at least 50% of the Jewish demographic in Israel are going to accept that they have to move again, especially because I couldn't point toward a direction where they would go. There is certainly no other home for them in the region, and I wouldn't argue many places in Europe are quite attractive to them.

A few things here. First, the sample size of that study is quite low. I'm not sure you can conclusively say that this does/doesn't reflect the general opinion of the Israeli left. I mean ~600 Israelis were questioned and ~150 Arab Israeli were questioned. The third point I don't really get regarding the IDF. I mean that kind of makes sense does it not? The people who grew up in your communities and who you trained with are probably going to be the most you trust. It is again, in my opinion, quite naïve to think everyone in the IDF agrees with the likes of Netanyahu or Itamar Ben Gvir etc.

I will say, that it never ceases to amaze me that people feel comfortable criticizing the Israeli government and its systems/policies, and with the same comfort level, they will then propose a solution that involves whatever they are accusing of the Israeli government of committing. It really is a phenomenon that I may never come to understand.

To answer one of your earlier questions in this thread Enzo, to how could people derail such a serious and dire topic so quickly is quite simple. Firstly, I've got to say, your opinions about this topic reek of xenophobia and you have a tendency to play into a few of the common antisemitic tropes. Not to say I am the one who gets to decide how to judge your character, just an observation from your posts in this thread. Second, like someone correctly identified, Hitler joined the conversation by post #4. Shit was doomed as soon as he laid his eyes on this thread. I think most importantly though, there is little mention of Hamas's accountability and the one post of the October 7th denial from you Enzo (although the conversation certainly derailed way before that). But that is absolutely an inhumane thought.

This really fascinated me because you manage to invent the most bizarre circular logic to justify the existence of Israel. Antisemitism in the arab world, to be clear, is wrong. Yet not only is modern antisemitism a european phenomenon that the middle east adopted from them, but it was only adopted in reaction to how imperial britain was meddling in the region and zionist colonialism. You found a way to take antisemitism that flared up in reaction to zionism, not Jews, as a justification for zionism!

the actual audacity to use the word naive while claiming surely the military apparatus and boots on the ground demolishing gaza and carrying out genocide have some disagreements with the government officials talking about how important it is to demolish gaza and ordering them to demolish gaza

im assuming this is a soft argument against what i said here:

in which case i couldnt have made a more illustrative example of liberal zionism myself because not only is it cloaked in a sense of moral superiority, not only is there an assumption of israel's legitamacy woven in, but it is completely and utterly devoid of even an attempt to understand the issue systemically, understand the power dynamics. If a woman is returned her purse would you call her a thief for taking it back after it's stolen? In what way is the return the homes and land of a people back to them the same as the original theft? They are the exact opposite

but what does b4niel think?

There's no logical fallacies in what he said. EnzoDB is saying that if you are jewish, have never been to Israel and have no familial roots in Israel and move there, then you are complicit in the genocide of Palestinians. He even acknowledges that there exists jewish people with familial roots in the area, and you call it a fallacy? You should read what you are replying to carefully if you want to disprove someone's statement.

As for EnzoDB's actual point, well a great example would be the many jewish South African fascists who benefited from apartheid and moved to Israel and displaced local people in their zionist conquest. And it only got worse once apartheid fell in South Africa, can't legally lord over people in South Africa? Move to Israel. Not even jewish? Convert to judaism and we'll take you anyway! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHP_KS5FenU This is a video that documents South African Settler's who left South Africa to continue figuratively stepping on people. Hard to say these people aren't contributing to the Palestinian genocide.

Speaking of South Africa, this is a great article that looks at the historical similarities in the developments between Israel and South Africa as settler colonial states. https://www.jstor.org/stable/41857718?seq=16
It's only 21 pages, but it really highlights the similarities, and at the very least has sufficient sources. Worth the read imo.

In general sample size of 600 and 150 is sufficient to make claims and that sample size has been used forever to great effect. Of course with more people you will get more accurate but at a certain point it becomes statistically negligible.

For the third point you said you didn't get, Wild Rumpus wants to show that the majority of Israeli's don't care that they are mascaraing Palestinians, something you said is a naive thought. To do this he broadly splits the Israeli population into two groups, people on the right and people on the left, and wants to show that each group doesn't care about Palestinian lives. In the poll he linked the 80% of the Israeli "left" trusts the IDF more than Netanyahu to lead the war, whereas the right it's only 41% that thinks that, with 29% being they trust both of the IDF and Netanyahu equally. In both cases none of them is a small minority, which is the ONLY acceptable answer if one actually cares about stopping the genocide of Palestinians, as they are both complicit in the genocide of Palestinians. This shows that both sides and also a majority of Israelis don't care about their genocide of Palestinians. This was the argument Wild Rumpus made, just a little clearer.

As for your bewilderment at people criticizing Israel and wanting to install policies and conditions that you think are the exact same but for the other side, I'm just as bewildered that you said you've followed this quite closely for literally half your life, yet the most you've put forth is milquetoast centrist videos, lack of reading comprehension and statistical knowledge, and no sources for anything. But that's not important, what is is that the policies you're confused by aren't the same for both sides, wanting to end settler colonialism in Palestine is not the same as wanting to colonize Palestine. For this a start is to read this article, https://www.jstor.org/stable/2535582 a very brief introduction to the history of Zionist Imperialism, which you can get for free through your unis library, or if you don't attend some unis will give out library cards for free which you can access stuff online, or pirate it.

I answered (https://i.imgur.com/vOJpVgr.png). Question is irrelevant to whether IDF is right to bomb Hamas. Why do you keep appealing to emotion so much?

It is not exactly a personal opinion that Hamas is antisemetic and wants jews dead, and them saying "no we changed our mind in 2017" is not convincing in the least. Read the 1988 charter (not explicitly revoked) which says jews should be killed, that they control the banks and so on.

Al-Shaifa was a command center and hosted Israeli hostages - per Israeli and American intelligence. Only a few hostages were found, sadly. It does justify it, if Israel thinks it is worth achieving its military objectives - killing the enemy who hides behind human shields. It is not a surprise you mention all these buildings - IDF destroys more buildings than kills people because it prevents civilian deaths and sends warning strikes.

I would not use this child-like analogy to describe this conflict and its history but yes actually. Take all of Gaza and the West Bank (after Hamas is annihilated ofc course) or the conflict keeps going. Anything else involves Israelis being killed. Don't tell me you believe in a bogus right of return (palestinians being kept in refugee camps to one day return to a land they have never been to before).

Crimea referendum was not valid, for a multitude of reason and even if it was that's not how it works.

Thankfully, by the grace of God, I was born in Europe. Here in Europe we reduce our ancestral grudges to memes on the internet. You however like to keep them going, shed blood (yours and others), and never advance because of this. Well, not you because you are an immigrant blessed by the European soul of "forgive and forget" but you know what I mean.

Yes, considering the fact that so many people were in such close proximity. Weird how you don't mention the Israel-Palestine section of the Wikipedia page you probably just read about civilian casualty ratios - even using Hamas sources it says it is 65% which sounds pretty good to me given that Hamas hides in civilian buildings.

I'm taking the bait.

How about you link that source boss because I can't find it. The closest I found was 35% of all deaths are males above 14, which you know, Palestinian males above 14 might as well be Hamas militants for all the IDF cares; unless Hamas has a gender quota that I've not heard about.

Strangely enough, Oct 7 had 61% civilian casualties, with 3% children compared to 30-50% in Gaza, so by your metric Hamas did a great job, no? With the Israeli conscription, militants are hiding among civilians! Everyone could be a threat! You said it yourself:

Before you go off chasing a red herring, I don't think Oct 7 was good, just pointing out that your arguments are contradictory from the get go (which is why I think you're just an edgy troll).

"As of December 30, 2023 Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor estimated Gaza Strip deaths as 30,034 total and civilian deaths at 27,681 which would mean about 2,353 militant deaths." This is the closest to a hummus source on this wiki which is way off 65%.

Read what I say then. I was referring to this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio which I think the guy I was talking to used. It is not about 2023.

Not my metric, I already said it is not what matters. Hamas did not attack a random population of Israel but a music festival among others (no children at music festivals). Israel clearly separates its civilian population from its military population, unlike Hamas, so the innocents killed are not collateral. Civilians who did military training at one point are not always military that is ridiculous. Nothing contradictory about what I said.

https://i.imgur.com/DVLCdhf.png

The point I was trying to make here is that does it not seem unattainable to achieve this without royally pissing off one group of people and ending back at square 1 all over again? Let's say the Palestinian refugees of America, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, etc. are allowed to return to their specific homes. Most certainly there will be instances where Israelis will be forced to move. Would this not bring severe anti-arab sentiment in the region? Regardless if you think the act is just or not, I think the most important aspect to keep in mind when it comes down to policy/legislature over the land is the future, peaceful coexistence of the Palestinians and Israelis. Maybe it's just my opinion that this wouldn't help that future relationship. In my opinion, a perfect world scenario where all nationalities receive the same rights and liberty as one-state, with the focus of being a safe-haven for Jews around the world AND the land where Palestinians have the right to return to their native land. There are three R's I think need to happen (famously quoted by an arab-israeli lawmaker) return, recognition, redistribution. I think whatever that encapsulates, has to be carried out carefully because the slightest mistake can lead to a misinterpretation, and that is when we have seen tense relations turn violent in some circumstances.

If you aren't part of the obvious demographic, what on EARTH do you have to gain by supporting Israel???

To the first part of you replying to me replying to enzo (lol), I would read my reply above to Wild_Rumpus. A little redundant of me to repeat what I think is a misinterpretation of my original point.

About my questioning of the sample size, you identified the exact reason. Yes, I understand there are certainly cases where a similar sample size has been used for studies like this, however, from my experiences, this is not representative of the Israeli "left" or "right" for that matter. I am claiming that I don't think you can simply use this study and claim "see, they're all genocidal, every single one of them, even the liberals". That is categorically false. Please read https://www.btselem.org/, https://www.haaretz.com/.

To answer the last bit about being "milquetoast centrist". I don't believe anything I have claimed to say is controversial, and if that means I'm a spineless centrist in from your POV, then I must be doing a decent job at being a human being at the very least. Second, I don't recall making any disputable claims without putting forth evidence. If I didn't provide a source or citation for a claim I made, that is because it is a fact. The only thing I can think of that you would find this to be inappropriate is around the discourse of the study Wild_Rumpus shared. I am simply stating, that from my experiences in the past and present, this is not representative of how Israelis think ideologically, especially if you separate them by left and right. I have a B.S. degree in Business Analytics (Data Science), and it is just my opinion that polls, surveys, market research etc, have tendencies to miss a particular audience/voice at times, and to eliminate this gap/void you need to match empirical evidence with anecdotal evidence that is verifiable and can tell the whole story rather than fragments or segmentations. The study lacks that and that's ok, we can certainly still gather insights from it, but we need to also look at other information as well to form a more clear and concise conclusion that encapsulates a particular groups sentiments towards a subject rather than just two options one or the other.

you have a business analytics degree and in the same breath you're rejecting widely accepted statistical sample sizes in favor of anecdotes

Wait... so they have MILITARY BUILDINGS? That's crazy that they don't hide in civilian buildings like Hamas. Damn my opinion of the IDF really increased.

No, I am not rejecting this completely. I am just saying one with the absence of the other, you will likely come to inconclusive results! This is not controversial, or even a concept one needs higher education to understand. It's not to say that their study is completely inappropriate, it just doesn't really tell you much. More importantly, it doesn't answer very basic methodology and demographic questions like how was this specifically conducted (they mention the survey was conducted by the Viterbi Family Center for Public Opinion and Policy Research at the Israel Democracy Institute between October 24–26, 2023, but no mention of if this was in person/online/any other methodology)? In addition, it never discloses the demographics of the two groups (there are different races of both Israelis and Arabs), but how am I to know what these people's backgrounds are? It is quite common knowledge that someone from Tel-Aviv has a very different upbringing than someone from Jerusalem (~ about a 2 hour car ride) and both of those groups of people have even different upbringing than someone from Eilat. A criticism I've heard about Israelis over the years is their tendency to put all arabs in one bucket and label them all death-cult lovers and Islam is a death cult etc. How are you different from any of them right now? (I guess not specifically you pajaro, but anyone who would make these type of claims)

no i don't care about royally pissing off Israelis and no, square 1 was a british mandate ceding Palestinian land away which clearly wouldn't be the case
also i think anti arab sentiment is already plenty severe if you've been paying attention, better for them to not have a military and legal system, right?
And sure, i would also like the criminals tried but everyone else to hold hands and sing la dee da, but that wouldn't stop me from supporting peace on the victims terms. the Palestinian opinion is clear: from the river to the sea Palestine will be free and that should be the starting point

also please for the love of god if you're going to keep replying stop just presupposing that israelis have some special right to be there or that israels claim of being a jewish state in palestine is righteous because I'm tired of having to check you on it every time

As I suspected, you are unserious, misinformed (not in totality but enough), and disingenuous. There is no reason for me to further respond to you regarding this topic. I wish you the best.

how is a military building in a residential area "separates its civilian population from its military population"? is there a forcefield around this building that civilians cannot walk within 100ft of?

wow the more i read about the history of this place, seems like this "middle east" has always sucked!

Do you know how bombs work? You can target a specific area even with the homemade rockets Hamas has from all the water pipes they get from foreign aid. This means they can bomb the shit out of this building without any civilian collateral. Meanwhile Hamas hides in civilian buildings, that either house civilians or are indistinguishable from buildings without any combatants in them, or are surrounded by buildings housing civilians (precise strikes involve bombing the surrounding buildings because that's where the targets first flee).

Let's put into context who is agreeing with me. Here is the supposed propaganda I mindlessly repeat:
- NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence report on Hamas using civilians as human shields.
- US President Joe Biden: "Hamas using innocent Palestinians as human shields in Gaza"
- Antony J. Blinken, Secretary of State of the United States: "Palestinian civilians must be protected, and Hamas must cease to use them as human shields."
- The EU: "We condemn the use by Hamas of people at hospitals as shields "
- UN Secretary General: "Hamas and other militants use civilians as human shields and continue to launch rockets indiscriminately towards Israel."

Some steelmanned arguments you could make:
- Israel also has military buildings near civilian areas.
Of course - but that is not enough to mean they use human shields like Hamas. Remember this key important point: there are no specifically military buildings in Gaza. There are only civilian buildings, taken over by Hamas to shoot their rockets from inside, often with civilians purposefully in them.
- Gaza has a high population density which forces Hamas to use human shields
This practical argument does not excuse the morality of Hamas' action. Hamas could go to great lengths to not use civilians as human shields, but they don't. Probably because it is a very effective win-win strategy (you either don't get bombed or you get bombed and cry war crimes).
- Here are some rare examples of the IDF using human shields, e.g. a girl in 2022
That's bad. But that is not systematic like in the case of Hamas. Israel, being an actual military with internal and external scrutiny, can have these actions scrutinized, investigated and punished. Hamas, and its leadership, purposefully make use of human shields as a military strategy.

Neither the Palestinian State nor the Israeli one deserve the privilege of existing. There lies only the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Taking_of_Jerusalem_by_the_Crusaders%2C_15th_July_1099.jpg/1920px-Taking_of_Jerusalem_by_the_Crusaders%2C_15th_July_1099.jpg

To add, according to the Geneva Convention article 19 states that hospitals are not valid military targets unless they are used to commit acts deemed harmful to the enemy, such as using them as positions to fire from. However, to attack them, warnings must be given along with reasonable time limits. There are similar clauses defining when places of cultural significance are given similar protections but are not explicitly mentioned in the geneva conventions.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-protection-civilian-persons-time-war