didn't everyone like gpit 2 seasons ago? when did everyone start hating it

I think the obvious solution here is to add so many a/d maps that people are forced to scrim them. You will learn to love gpit as your spectators do.

As someone who used to hate gravelpit...I love it. It encourages a different kind of coordination and strategy and is very fun and exciting to watch (and to play IMO). And offclassing is fun

IMO gravelpit is a terrible map, mainly because of the imbalance of defensive capabilities between A and B, so for the first minute or two of the game on defense it feels like a ghost town until suicides come from offense. Ive been doing some review of edifice as I am also in Silver and from what ive seen there are alot more viable opportunities for strats like the iron man hold since both A and B seem to be fairly even for defending. Gravelpits been around for a while so everyone is pretty exposed to most the strats on that map, so when i watch it there aren't many surprises and teams don't have to much to work with on creativity.

TL;DR : Gravelpit has been worn out by comp 6s and I believe a map like edifice could give us a refresher that we are looking for.

I think GPIT is just too big for 6v6, but I still want to see an A/D map in rotation.

Also, I think a SD map tailored for 6v6 could be interesting

I like gpit. If you think outside the box a little some crazy and cool strats begin to arise.

For example, in my match last night we ironmanned and their response was to straight attack B with 6 players. We delayed that cap for a while, but ultimately we rotated to A and managed to defend for at least 5 more minutes just on A by locking out a few key choke points.

I certainly had a lot of fun.

Has anyone ever tried pugging/scrimming sd_congo?

gpit fan ova heaaaa

it would be pretty strange not seeing a classic map like gpit in the rotation next season, but honestly all good things must come to an end. it had a nice run though right? a lot of oldschool maps aren't played anymore like freight, well, fastlane etc so it wouldn't be such a terrible thing if it got replaced. but like most people have said it would have to be a really solid map to take that spot

it took quite some time but i think the rotation is a lot better now than it used to be. process will definitely be around for a while, metalworks may be a toss up for some but its not as terrible as cp_ashville

I had to play this week's matches with two ringers. This of all maps. Finding scrims was impossible enough. I should've just forfeited both matches and saved my ringers' money.

I'd take a 5CP / KOTH over Gravel Pit anyday.

I'd like to think it's a scheduling thing. Our first match was intense and exciting, us taking the round with 2 seconds left on the clock and making some good breaking pushes off of some smart play. Then our second match was just a pushover.

I have never been a fan of Gpit but I think the problem is having it early in the season. This is a map where playing together (timing of jumps, covering the correct area, covering teammates) is as important as raw DM. This doesn't come immediately to new teams and while it's important in 5 cp maps, you get to gpit week and it shows to the extreme.

I would think that changing it to a later week would help new teams

what, gpit is awesome

i always thought of gpit as one of those nonstandard maps that lets less skilled teams overcome better teams more easily because of how differently its played

Hurts to say, but spectator experience is the most importing thing for growth right now. Nothing is more fun to watch than Gpit. I fucking hate playing it with a passion, but suck it up and deliver to the spectators. :>

Get mad.

Let's continue grinding our faces with this power buffer because people are throwing money at us when we do it on the street

I would disagree john. Sure the end of each round might be exciting as the timer counts down.. But a lot of games.... The time leading up to that is filled with boring building... 2 seconds of suicides.... Building uber.. Push fail.... Etc. I am all for map diversity but a map that literally no team ever wants to play outside of a match should probably be considered for removal. I would like to see another ad that people enjoy or koth replace it.

i don't necessarily disagree with you but, if the majority of comp players hate playing this map isn't it time to rethink the maplist when a map thats in rotation will never be played other than the week it needs to be played for matches? I for one don't hate stopwatch but, gravelpit has just become atrocious to play on, winning or not.

gravelpit is a great map. The problem is it is completely different to the rest of the map pool. Every other map is about long term consistently over the course of the map to determine the winner, where as Gpit is usually about a single play. There can often be no recovery after a mistake.

One could look at that and say that is a huge test of skill to be the team that never makes a mistake, while you can also look at it and say it's a bit of a lottery because mistakes are common in TF2. Medic drops uber on granary? You might lose a couple of capture points but be able to claw it back. If your medic drops uber and you lose that fight on gpit, you have something like an 85% chance of losing that round within the next minute (random figures are fun).

This changes the emphasis of a match from the winner being a consistent and smart team over a period of 30 minutes or 5 rounds, to being the team than can make a single play on two rounds. I think it's good, it's just a different type of skill. Should it be in the map pool? Depends. Gpit can provide a lot of upsets, but are they for the right reasons?

The spectator/outsider experience is about those exciting moments. They don't happen as often on other maps. Gpit is the one map in the rotation that is able to create a story for the season (Vector). Upsets of that level aren't going to happen anywhere else. Find another map where something like that can happen and I'm all for it.

People bitch about GPit every season but don't do anything about it. This topic is pretty stale.

Great point. If you don't think that this is true, try any of these;
1) Outside of gpit week, try to get a scrim on it or
2) Try to RTV during a pug to gpit

Both are extremely hard things to do

Luck can win a team a round on gpit much more easily than it can on a cp or koth map, and matches being best of three only makes it worse.

Gravelpit is an exciting spectator map for the same reason it's not enjoyable to play. Everything you do on defense matters at all times, because there's so much opportunity for gamebreaking plays.

Control point and koth are much more dynamic and forgiving, so you can screw up and still recover to show you're the better team.

Modify to require linear cap from a to b to c. More forgiving... Still time constricted. One bad mistake and you lose one point... Not lose b and get rolled into c

I'm pretty sure Gravel Pit got voted out on the poll prior to this season's start but it was never actually removed.

I wouldn't mind scrimming gpit during the offseason, but scrimming gpit during the season at any time other than gpit week just isn't an efficient use of time. At least scrimming badlands during process week builds a lot of the same skills.

Summary: When it's not gpit week, I don't want to scrim gpit not because it's gpit, but because it won't make me significantly better at x other map.

I'm pretty sure no change won.

Yeah.. it's kinda hard to convince a team to scrim on gpit, and like Fzero said, even harder to play it on a pug. eg: on my country we play a lot of mixes with random people, most of the time badlands granary gully process etc. if gpit wins an rtv votation literally half of the players in the server disconnects. :/

I thought keeping the maps the same barely edged out voting out gpit.

Still, now that we have a decent maplist aside from gpit, it's more likely to get voted out. I'd try voting in Edifice (either the way it currently is or a linear version), or koth_ashville.

so like mountainlab/mann manor?

Most people voted to keep the map pool the same in the poll. (This has been repeated a lot) Until a better replacement for gpit is found, it will stay in the map pool.

Lets check the list:

1. Dustbowl - hell no

2. Egypt - nope

3. Gorge - too plain and boring

4. Gravel Pit - gg no re

5. Junction - too crampy and choke.

6. Steel - I believe it was played before? at least in HL format. I think it is the only A/D map which has some potential.

As for SD map, I think it is cool, but very KOTH like. What about Arena mode?