In ESEA map changes are decided through a vote available to people with premium. The only thing ESEA decides is which maps you can vote in, but I think the list usually includes all the decent maps.

Also have people tried playing lakeside or that asian looking one (koth_kong?) in 6s? I know lakeside is played in HL, although I haven't really played it so I don't know how good it is.

How about koth_torque, it's looking pretty good so far http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/7069-koth-torque-koth-torx-redux

a/d is bad hands down. if you fuck up a push or two youre looking at possibly a lost round.

If you fuck up 2 pushes in a row on 5cp you probably lost as well (depending on severity of fuck ups). Of course its less significant when its b05 instead of b03 so 1 round isnt as important.

What if there was an a/d map designed so rounds were shorter so a best of 5 wouldn't be completely ridiculous? I also think the idea of a linear map would be a better setup, aka you have to cap a before b. and instead of spawn going to a and b, have a spawn going just to a, and when you cap a you get a forward spawn(somewhere around a) to attack b from, and again when you cap b.

A shorter setup time could also help with reducing turtling (not enough time for an engineer to build a level 3 at a)

I feel like one of the problems with gpit is that once you commit to a push you either win or lose your medic. If it were possible for the attacking medic to get back into spawn after a failed push(yeah yeah there's that clipping at a - good luck), the one failed push thing wouldn't be as detrimental (would lose less time).

replace a/d for a koth. It can be debated which map it would be.

Enough of gpit!

but don't you guys think there's a bigger difference in gameplay from badlands to Gpit than badlands to granary??

a lot of you guys are saying that variation in maps is important and I agree. but playing a completely different game type doesn't make much sense, and that's why I'm arguing for all 5cp maps. I don't think there's enough viable/play tested maps to make the switch for s15, but eventually we should be thinking about phasing non 5cp maps out of the map rotation when map makers have created adequate substitutes.

koth_king has a balance issue with several medpacks not synched in terms of size. It's also a very noisy environment, most of the buildings have a wacky set of clipping bits and heavily favors explosive classes for traps.

And Lakeside is a bit too open for 6s unfortunately.

go ahead and say I'm crazy, I probably am, but...

what if the season were 9-10 weeks long?

We'd get 3+ of each gamemode (assuming maps get made) or we could keep 5 5cp and have 2 koth and 2 a/d, which is already becoming feasible (there are koth maps out there, and edifice is definitely getting there).

Ask CS players if they want to extend the season.

KOTH WARMFRONT
please make it happen i love everything on that map but the last

2nd'd

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=12589

that but warm

Holy shit how has no one thought of that
YOU ARE A GENIUS!

What ever happened with koth_granary? I remember watching people pugging it and being pretty enthusiastic about it, wanting to put it in the map pool and all that, and then I took a break from TF2 for a while and when I came back it was gone.

Sigma quit TF2 I believe. Someone else would have to finish it.

after browsing all the frags your post have on this thread, i don't think its looking good slin

maybe things will change when new maps come out. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Yeah lakeside seems pretty bad, but I didn't really see too much wrong with koth_king aside from the textures (which could be fixed in a pro version).

Koth King is very defender orientated,I'd suggest making it cap quickly and shortening the attacker spawn times to make it easier to push on to

Take Gravelpit B, make a KOTH from it. Like mirror it like Viaduct and add changes to the spawn.

I actualy quite like this idea....although koth warmfront would be fucking amazing also...decisions decisions o.o

koth_king would make a cool ctf or invade ctf map imo

i feel like retaking the point on koth warmfront could be a nightmare...the spam lanes/sightlines are so strong. not to mention the heavy on roof play

Having scrimmed Edifice at least 8 times this week so far (UGC Steel but we're performing a lot higher), I think it would be an amazing replacement or addition to the ESEA roster.

The map really promotes a very mobile defense, which makes offclassing on defense a bit more fun. My team has been using an ironman strat for every scrim, and rolled every team 2-0 (these teams are mostly from silver, but we played a few top teams in steel too).

The actual rooms you can back into on defense eliminate the fear of 4-man bombs at your medic, which makes playing medic on edifice a bit less stressful.

I don't know if it's just the other teams not knowing the map, or if we have a great strat for it, but it's working for us. Edifice really feels like an improvement on everything gpit did right, but getting rid of everything it did wrong. If you haven't played it at all yet, I honestly think it's one of the funnest maps, but I might be a little biased from all the rolls in scrims.

koth_king had some pretty bad performance issues last I remember it, but as a whole it seems like it'd be a fun map. while gravelpit makes for some entertaining plays (mostly on C), from a spectating perspective, koth's a lot more fun to me as a whole concept. if someone did a gravelpit_pro where 1/3 of the map wasn't as useless I'd be down tho

basically edifice

Since we have 16 matches a season, couldn't we have 2 maps played twice (would be voted on), and 12 other maps played once. Half of the matches in the season will be on cp maps if the 2 maps played twice are cp and there are 6 cp maps (granary, blands, snake, gully, process, metalworks) in the map pool.

This would also require 4 new non-cp if viaduct, edifice, gpit and ashville are good enough to be in the map pool. If this is too much we could also have cp maps count for ~66% of the season (10 matches), and we could repeat 4 cp maps.

Another option would be to repeat non-cp maps since we have fewer of those and just play cp maps once. Since we already have 4 non-cp maps, we would just need 2 more cp maps.

Any of the maps listed above can be switched out for better maps.

I really like koth_king but the obnoxious number of props and textures gets annoying very quickly. Also not a huge fan of the little roof thing over the point. I doubt it will have a "pro" version made though.

I'm pretty biased here but I wholeheartedly agree. No one is going to make good competitive maps if people don't work with mapmakers and regularly playtest them. People running new map PUGs last for a few months then fall by the wayside time and time again and this inactiveness by the community disincentivizes mappers to even bother.