So unfortunately my buddy Yyler has been very busy lately, so busy in fact that he can not keep up with his mapping endeavours anymore. For that reason, I have been designated to take over his duties of updating and maintaining koth_pro_viaduct and the pro version of barnblitz until further notice.
today's release is koth_pro_viaduct_rc4
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5181650/koth_pro_viaduct_rc4.bsp (bsp 36mb)
http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=5390&act=down (bz2 16mb)
changes from rc3 to rc4 include: (but not limited to)
-fixed map imbalances due to rock models. all gameplay relevant rocks now obey symmetry
-fixed map imbalances related to the solidity of window models
-fixed various clipping issues
-various performance optimizations (5-10% fps increase)
-fixed catwalk metal planks not blocking explosive damage
-made the cobblestone wall easier to navigate over
-improved lighting in indoor areas for better visibility
-new unobstructive roofs for unencumbered rocket jumping
so just like that, all imbalances were gone and there was much rejoicing
So unfortunately my buddy Yyler has been very busy lately, so busy in fact that he can not keep up with his mapping endeavours anymore. For that reason, I have been designated to take over his duties of updating and maintaining koth_pro_viaduct and the pro version of barnblitz until further notice.
today's release is koth_pro_viaduct_rc4
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5181650/koth_pro_viaduct_rc4.bsp (bsp 36mb)
http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=5390&act=down (bz2 16mb)
changes from rc3 to rc4 include: (but not limited to)
-fixed map imbalances due to rock models. all gameplay relevant rocks now obey symmetry
-fixed map imbalances related to the solidity of window models
-fixed various clipping issues
-various performance optimizations (5-10% fps increase)
-fixed catwalk metal planks not blocking explosive damage
-made the cobblestone wall easier to navigate over
-improved lighting in indoor areas for better visibility
-new unobstructive roofs for unencumbered rocket jumping
so just like that, all imbalances were gone and there was much rejoicing
ur a bit late pal
edit: on the thread i mean
ur a bit late pal
edit: on the thread i mean
wur a bit late pal
Not really, it's in the proper place and he's the one who made the changes to the map
[quote=w]ur a bit late pal[/quote] Not really, it's in the proper place and he's the one who made the changes to the map
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/9944-koth-pro-viaduct-rc4
wur a bit late pal
edit: wow holy crap, this shit spreads way too fast :@ I can't keep up with you guys
[quote=w]ur a bit late pal[/quote]
edit: wow holy crap, this shit spreads way too fast :@ I can't keep up with you guys
sorry if i didnt clarify. i meant that there was already another thread.
sorry if i didnt clarify. i meant that there was already another thread.
Someone merge the threads.
Someone merge the threads.
so basically there are 2 threads about the SAME new version... oh dear
so basically there are 2 threads about the SAME new version... oh dear
noble rot
Last Online: 4 days ago
:(
Thank you for taking over for him though, these changes look pretty good. I'm sure there will be a lot of controversy over the metal sheets.
noble rot
Last Online: 4 days ago
:(
Thank you for taking over for him though, these changes look pretty good. I'm sure there will be a lot of controversy over the metal sheets.
Mr_OwlI'm sure there will be a lot of controversy over the metal sheets.
yeah well all changes are always open for discussion but the feedback I had was that players felt it was quite unusual and bizarre that the explosive damage could go through. in my opinion it's a very poor and counter-intuitive design. I can revert it back to what it was but I'm pretty sure we can figure out something better.
[quote=Mr_Owl]I'm sure there will be a lot of controversy over the metal sheets.[/quote]
yeah well all changes are always open for discussion but the feedback I had was that players felt it was quite unusual and bizarre that the explosive damage could go through. in my opinion it's a very poor and counter-intuitive design. I can revert it back to what it was but I'm pretty sure we can figure out something better.
I'm pretty sure the common belief is that sniper is pretty OP on that map in 6s and the explosive damage was an intentional debuff. I don't know how much it will really affect gameplay on the map (usually when I see a sniper up there, someone jumps him and doesn't just spam up there, but some teams may take better advantage of that)
I can't think of any props that allow you to shoot through them normally, but perhaps you could do something with a half-wall that has a gap underneath, to block the sightlines for sniper but still allows demos to put some sticky spam up there? It would also keep soldiers from being able to indiscriminately spam rockets up to the metal sheets and hit easy splash damage.
I may just be talking out of my ass here too, I know nothing about making maps
I'm pretty sure the common belief is that sniper is pretty OP on that map in 6s and the explosive damage was an intentional debuff. I don't know how much it will really affect gameplay on the map (usually when I see a sniper up there, someone jumps him and doesn't just spam up there, but some teams may take better advantage of that)
I can't think of any props that allow you to shoot through them normally, but perhaps you could do something with a half-wall that has a gap underneath, to block the sightlines for sniper but still allows demos to put some sticky spam up there? It would also keep soldiers from being able to indiscriminately spam rockets up to the metal sheets and hit easy splash damage.
I may just be talking out of my ass here too, I know nothing about making maps
Yeah I definitely think the sheets should be changed back
If you want to you could change the prop to something that looks like it would let splash through, but you shouldn't be able to actually see through it (imo). No idea what you'd use though.
Yeah I definitely think the sheets should be changed back
If you want to you could change the prop to something that looks like it would let splash through, but you shouldn't be able to actually see through it (imo). No idea what you'd use though.
FubarMr_OwlI'm sure there will be a lot of controversy over the metal sheets.
yeah well all changes are always open for discussion but the feedback I had was that players felt it was quite unusual and bizarre that the explosive damage could go through. in my opinion it's a very poor and counter-intuitive design.
Agreed, it's a good change please keep it.
[quote=Fubar][quote=Mr_Owl]I'm sure there will be a lot of controversy over the metal sheets.[/quote]
yeah well all changes are always open for discussion but the feedback I had was that players felt it was quite unusual and bizarre that the explosive damage could go through. in my opinion it's a very poor and counter-intuitive design.[/quote]
Agreed, it's a good change please keep it.
Mr_OwlI can't think of any props that allow you to shoot through them normally, but perhaps you could do something with a half-wall that has a gap underneath, to block the sightlines for sniper but still allows demos to put some sticky spam up there?
people have suggested replacing the metal sheets with metal grates or fences so that the splash damage feels more natural. but then you can see the sniper and the sniper can see you, all from behind cover. would that be a good thing?
[quote=Mr_Owl]
I can't think of any props that allow you to shoot through them normally, but perhaps you could do something with a half-wall that has a gap underneath, to block the sightlines for sniper but still allows demos to put some sticky spam up there?[/quote]
people have suggested replacing the metal sheets with metal grates or fences so that the splash damage feels more natural. but then you can see the sniper and the sniper can see you, all from behind cover. would that be a good thing?
There are a couple of things I want to ask.
1) Would it be a good or bad idea if there was a window placed on the house connected to China where scouts could jump on from the rocks at mid in order to reach the sniper on China/Catwalk in a more undetectable way?
http://i.imgur.com/6c0udSD.jpg
2) Look back at that image, but for a different reason. You see the building with the black windows? You can jump on all 3 of those windows. Is that necessary? I haven't really seen it abused like the light above the door from spawn to cliff, but it could easily be abused. I have no problem with it but I felt like it might need to be addressed.
There are a couple of things I want to ask.
1) Would it be a good or bad idea if there was a window placed on the house connected to China where scouts could jump on from the rocks at mid in order to reach the sniper on China/Catwalk in a more undetectable way?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/6c0udSD.jpg[/img]
2) Look back at that image, but for a different reason. You see the building with the black windows? You can jump on all 3 of those windows. Is that necessary? I haven't really seen it abused like the light above the door from spawn to cliff, but it could easily be abused. I have no problem with it but I felt like it might need to be addressed.
I don't really see what the difference between that and just jumping straight from rock to china is, other than maybe the sniper seeing you and getting a point blank headshot in which case I think he kinda deserves the kill.
Plus it can be used for much more than just killing snipers, giving scout a pretty unnecessary buff.
I don't really see what the difference between that and just jumping straight from rock to china is, other than maybe the sniper seeing you and getting a point blank headshot in which case I think he kinda deserves the kill.
Plus it can be used for much more than just killing snipers, giving scout a pretty unnecessary buff.
scouts can already jump up behind the sniper in 2 jumps.
Also the window directly below the window you drew can be used to jump on the nest aswell.
scouts can already jump up behind the sniper in 2 jumps.
Also the window directly below the window you drew can be used to jump on the nest aswell.
#15
1)
there used to be a window there but I do not know why it was removed (limiting visibility from inside the building is my best guess). I'm open to the idea to put it back. doesn't have to be a glass window either, can be a boarded up window.
2)all windows have been addressed with this update.
for this set of 3 windows, the top 2 you cannot stand on anymore, the bottom one you can.
how I tackled every window basically came down to 2 questions
1- can it block rocketjumps mid-air?
2- does it create interesting navigation opportunities? (not just something others refer to as a "gay soldier hiding spot")
#15
1)
there used to be a window there but I do not know why it was removed (limiting visibility from inside the building is my best guess). I'm open to the idea to put it back. doesn't have to be a glass window either, can be a boarded up window.
2)all windows have been addressed with this update.
for this set of 3 windows, the top 2 you cannot stand on anymore, the bottom one you can.
how I tackled every window basically came down to 2 questions
1- can it block rocketjumps mid-air?
2- does it create interesting navigation opportunities? (not just something others refer to as a "gay soldier hiding spot")
trogI don't really see what the difference between that and just jumping straight from rock to china is, other than maybe the sniper seeing you and getting a point blank headshot in which case I think he kinda deserves the kill.
Plus it can be used for much more than just killing snipers, giving scout a pretty unnecessary buff.
I see your point. The way I was seeing it was that with the way it is now, a sniper could easily bait a scout or someone in a waiting soldier/sticky trap. No problem with that necessarily, but why not address everything, even if it has little chance of being a problem?
But yeah, I wasn't expecting too much to come from my question. It just came to mind.
This is unrelated to the sniper question, and it's probably personal preference, but I feel the skybox is a little too short. Maybe maps like Granary have skyboxes that are just too high, I dunno. Thoughts?
[quote=trog]I don't really see what the difference between that and just jumping straight from rock to china is, other than maybe the sniper seeing you and getting a point blank headshot in which case I think he kinda deserves the kill.
Plus it can be used for much more than just killing snipers, giving scout a pretty unnecessary buff.[/quote]
I see your point. The way I was seeing it was that with the way it is now, a sniper could easily bait a scout or someone in a waiting soldier/sticky trap. No problem with that necessarily, but why not address everything, even if it has little chance of being a problem?
But yeah, I wasn't expecting too much to come from my question. It just came to mind.
This is unrelated to the sniper question, and it's probably personal preference, but I feel the skybox is a little too short. Maybe maps like Granary have skyboxes that are just too high, I dunno. Thoughts?
Whats the point of the large bridge in the sky, it limits jumps a lot
Whats the point of the large bridge in the sky, it limits jumps a lot
homerWhats the point of the large bridge in the sky, it limits jumps a lot
because then it wouldn't be a viaduct
[quote=homer]Whats the point of the large bridge in the sky, it limits jumps a lot[/quote]
because then it wouldn't be a viaduct
homerWhats the point of the large bridge in the sky, it limits jumps a lot
so you can splash the bridge and pretend it was an airshot
[quote=homer]Whats the point of the large bridge in the sky, it limits jumps a lot[/quote]
so you can splash the bridge and pretend it was an airshot
The sheets were a debuff, afaik, but it's still a pretty stupid mechanic. If seeing the sniper is a big deal, maybe change the sheets to a one way mirror or something, so the defending team can see him as he crosses for the sight-line.
Being able to do explosive damage like that just limits movement for the attacking team. Pretty much no one can cross the bats if it's sticky trapped. Sure you can shoot them off through the sheets yourself, but it works much better one way than the other way, ie. can spam it, can't spam through it if you're up there.
The sheets were a debuff, afaik, but it's still a pretty stupid mechanic. If seeing the sniper is a big deal, maybe change the sheets to a one way mirror or something, so the defending team can see him as he crosses for the sight-line.
Being able to do explosive damage like that just limits movement for the attacking team. Pretty much no one can cross the bats if it's sticky trapped. Sure you can shoot them off through the sheets yourself, but it works much better one way than the other way, ie. can spam it, can't spam through it if you're up there.
fuck yeah everytime i play the map i get 10 fps now its like 20 hell yeah
fuck yeah everytime i play the map i get 10 fps now its like 20 hell yeah
completing this changelog a bit :p
- map is generally a lot brighter, lights inside the house and the room with the logs http://puu.sh/3szwJ.jpg http://puu.sh/3szxl.jpg http://puu.sh/3szxA.jpg
- lights at cliffside can't be jumped on anymore http://puu.sh/3szys.jpg
- window ledges near bridge can be jumped on on both sides http://puu.sh/3szyE.jpg
- wooden panels next to the rock on mid are bigger and you can't wallbang through the one on red side anymore (or at least it's a bit harder and works on both sides) http://puu.sh/3szzf.jpg
- the rocks at both cliffsides can easily be jumped on to get to the cliff http://puu.sh/3szFj.jpg
- can't stand on the wooden beams in the middle house anymore http://puu.sh/3tBNg.jpg
- wooden beam to stand on near spawn got removed http://i.imgur.com/dHbpwn7.jpg
- teleporter exploit in spawn fixed
- performance improvement
- fixed various clipping issues
- fixed catwalk metal planks not blocking explosive damage
- rocks near the bridge above the control point block players http://puu.sh/3sCnU.jpg (ty sorrow)
- new unobstructive roofs for unencumbered rocket jumping http://puu.sh/3tCmf.jpg
completing this changelog a bit :p
- map is generally a lot brighter, lights inside the house and the room with the logs http://puu.sh/3szwJ.jpg http://puu.sh/3szxl.jpg http://puu.sh/3szxA.jpg
- lights at cliffside can't be jumped on anymore http://puu.sh/3szys.jpg
- window ledges near bridge can be jumped on on both sides http://puu.sh/3szyE.jpg
- wooden panels next to the rock on mid are bigger and you can't wallbang through the one on red side anymore (or at least it's a bit harder and works on both sides) http://puu.sh/3szzf.jpg
- the rocks at both cliffsides can easily be jumped on to get to the cliff http://puu.sh/3szFj.jpg
- can't stand on the wooden beams in the middle house anymore http://puu.sh/3tBNg.jpg
- wooden beam to stand on near spawn got removed http://i.imgur.com/dHbpwn7.jpg
- teleporter exploit in spawn fixed
- performance improvement
- fixed various clipping issues
- fixed catwalk metal planks not blocking explosive damage
- rocks near the bridge above the control point block players http://puu.sh/3sCnU.jpg (ty sorrow)
- new unobstructive roofs for unencumbered rocket jumping http://puu.sh/3tCmf.jpg
now someone just needs to make snakewater brighter and everything is golden
now someone just needs to make snakewater brighter and everything is golden
stairs are still stairs...
stairs are still stairs...
Played this map for ~2 weeks now in scrims/matches and the list of stuff that annoys me about the map has gotten fairly large.
http://puu.sh/7CKJM.jpg
Stairs are still stairs, should probably fix the train tracks as they'de do the same thing as stairs.
http://puu.sh/7CMkn.jpg
Can get caught on the door and electrical boxes.
http://puu.sh/7CKT6.jpg
Those stairs are also still stairs, should also redo the clipping on that fence as you can get caught on the pole my crosshair is on.
http://puu.sh/7CKz8.jpg
The clipping on these fences is super extra bad on both sides.
http://puu.sh/7CL3i.jpg
Not sure why these windows are clipped, also those boxes kinda stop rending on cliff side so you could kinda see floating stickies on the boxes. Aparantly this has something to do with an occulder on a prop, not sure exactly how that functions but you should fix that as well.
http://puu.sh/7CLte.jpg
Stairs
http://puu.sh/7CLwu.jpg
Could throw a tiny bit of playerclip there to polish that area up a bit.
http://puu.sh/7CLDT.jpg
Detailing thing, this door thing looks weird when it's right next to the shed. I would center it a bit more.
http://puu.sh/7CLL6.jpg
I have no idea why this window would be clipped, you can get stuck on it just walking on the ground as any class.
http://puu.sh/7CLOr.jpg
Can get caught on this wall because of the weird clipping transition
http://puu.sh/7CM6o.jpg
Should make this flush with the ground
http://puu.sh/7CMcv.jpg
Same here
http://puu.sh/7CMMo.jpg
Bottom metal bar of the bridge at mid doesn't allow rockets to explode, but the rest of the bridge does?
I'll probably remember more stuff and update this post in a day or two.
Played this map for ~2 weeks now in scrims/matches and the list of stuff that annoys me about the map has gotten fairly large.
[img]http://puu.sh/7CKJM.jpg[/img]
Stairs are still stairs, should probably fix the train tracks as they'de do the same thing as stairs.
[img]http://puu.sh/7CMkn.jpg[/img]
Can get caught on the door and electrical boxes.
[img]http://puu.sh/7CKT6.jpg[/img]
Those stairs are also still stairs, should also redo the clipping on that fence as you can get caught on the pole my crosshair is on.
[img]http://puu.sh/7CKz8.jpg[/img]
The clipping on these fences is super extra bad on both sides.
[img]http://puu.sh/7CL3i.jpg[/img]
Not sure why these windows are clipped, also those boxes kinda stop rending on cliff side so you could kinda see floating stickies on the boxes. Aparantly this has something to do with an occulder on a prop, not sure exactly how that functions but you should fix that as well.
[img]http://puu.sh/7CLte.jpg[/img]
Stairs
[img]http://puu.sh/7CLwu.jpg[/img]
Could throw a tiny bit of playerclip there to polish that area up a bit.
[img]http://puu.sh/7CLDT.jpg[/img]
Detailing thing, this door thing looks weird when it's right next to the shed. I would center it a bit more.
[img]http://puu.sh/7CLL6.jpg[/img]
I have no idea why this window would be clipped, you can get stuck on it just walking on the ground as any class.
[img]http://puu.sh/7CLOr.jpg[/img]
Can get caught on this wall because of the weird clipping transition
[img]http://puu.sh/7CM6o.jpg[/img]
Should make this flush with the ground
[img]http://puu.sh/7CMcv.jpg[/img]
Same here
[img]http://puu.sh/7CMMo.jpg[/img]
Bottom metal bar of the bridge at mid doesn't allow rockets to explode, but the rest of the bridge does?
I'll probably remember more stuff and update this post in a day or two.