imo, just remove the spire and put the cp on the roof. much more simpler, no need to put so much effort into something that people generally don't want.
A/D cp_badwater
posted in
Map Discussion
imo, just remove the spire and put the cp on the roof. much more simpler, no need to put so much effort into something that people generally don't want.
Pythooonimo, just remove the spire and put the cp on the roof. much more simpler, no need to put so much effort into something that people generally don't want.
The sightline from roof to that ramp thingy under the window room is too long. If RED has a decent sniper he can take pot shots all day and make it incredibly difficult to cap. Plus that sniper can't be jumped and has a healthpack right next to him.
There's nothing wrong with moving the cap point behind the roof, a simple spire will do, no need to make it overly complicated.
[quote=Pythooon]imo, just remove the spire and put the cp on the roof. much more simpler, no need to put so much effort into something that people generally don't want.[/quote]
The sightline from roof to that ramp thingy under the window room is too long. If RED has a decent sniper he can take pot shots all day and make it incredibly difficult to cap. Plus that sniper can't be jumped and has a healthpack right next to him.
There's nothing wrong with moving the cap point behind the roof, a simple spire will do, no need to make it overly complicated.
The sightline from roof to that ramp thingy under the window room is too long. If RED has a decent sniper he can take pot shots all day and make it incredibly difficult to cap. Plus that sniper can't be jumped and has a healthpack right next to him.
There's nothing wrong with moving the cap point behind the roof, a simple spire will do, no need to make it overly complicated.
JasPythooonimo, just remove the spire and put the cp on the roof. much more simpler, no need to put so much effort into something that people generally don't want.
The sightline from roof to that ramp thingy under the window room is too long. If RED has a decent sniper he can take pot shots all day and make it incredibly difficult to cap. Plus that sniper can't be jumped and has a healthpack right next to him.
There's nothing wrong with moving the cap point behind the roof, a simple spire will do, no need to make it overly complicated.
put a piece of sheet metal on the roof to block the sightline (i.e.) badlands spire, gullywash spire, process spire...you get the point
[quote=Jas][quote=Pythooon]imo, just remove the spire and put the cp on the roof. much more simpler, no need to put so much effort into something that people generally don't want.[/quote]
The sightline from roof to that ramp thingy under the window room is too long. If RED has a decent sniper he can take pot shots all day and make it incredibly difficult to cap. Plus that sniper can't be jumped and has a healthpack right next to him.
There's nothing wrong with moving the cap point behind the roof, a simple spire will do, no need to make it overly complicated.[/quote]
put a piece of sheet metal on the roof to block the sightline (i.e.) badlands spire, gullywash spire, process spire...you get the point
The sightline from roof to that ramp thingy under the window room is too long. If RED has a decent sniper he can take pot shots all day and make it incredibly difficult to cap. Plus that sniper can't be jumped and has a healthpack right next to him.
There's nothing wrong with moving the cap point behind the roof, a simple spire will do, no need to make it overly complicated.[/quote]
put a piece of sheet metal on the roof to block the sightline (i.e.) badlands spire, gullywash spire, process spire...you get the point
frknJasput a piece of sheet metal on the roof to block the sightline (i.e.) badlands spire, gullywash spire, process spire...you get the pointPythooonimo, just remove the spire and put the cp on the roof. much more simpler, no need to put so much effort into something that people generally don't want.
The sightline from roof to that ramp thingy under the window room is too long. If RED has a decent sniper he can take pot shots all day and make it incredibly difficult to cap. Plus that sniper can't be jumped and has a healthpack right next to him.
There's nothing wrong with moving the cap point behind the roof, a simple spire will do, no need to make it overly complicated.
You still have to fight on the roof to contest the point, it's during the fighting where they're running around the roof that the sniper becomes deadly.
Moving the cap point onto a spire behind the roof allows the area behind the roof to see some action and relevancy as well as cutting down on sight lines.
[quote=frkn][quote=Jas][quote=Pythooon]imo, just remove the spire and put the cp on the roof. much more simpler, no need to put so much effort into something that people generally don't want.[/quote]
The sightline from roof to that ramp thingy under the window room is too long. If RED has a decent sniper he can take pot shots all day and make it incredibly difficult to cap. Plus that sniper can't be jumped and has a healthpack right next to him.
There's nothing wrong with moving the cap point behind the roof, a simple spire will do, no need to make it overly complicated.[/quote]
put a piece of sheet metal on the roof to block the sightline (i.e.) badlands spire, gullywash spire, process spire...you get the point[/quote]
You still have to fight on the roof to contest the point, it's during the fighting where they're running around the roof that the sniper becomes deadly.
Moving the cap point onto a spire behind the roof allows the area behind the roof to see some action and relevancy as well as cutting down on sight lines.
The sightline from roof to that ramp thingy under the window room is too long. If RED has a decent sniper he can take pot shots all day and make it incredibly difficult to cap. Plus that sniper can't be jumped and has a healthpack right next to him.
There's nothing wrong with moving the cap point behind the roof, a simple spire will do, no need to make it overly complicated.[/quote]
put a piece of sheet metal on the roof to block the sightline (i.e.) badlands spire, gullywash spire, process spire...you get the point[/quote]
You still have to fight on the roof to contest the point, it's during the fighting where they're running around the roof that the sniper becomes deadly.
Moving the cap point onto a spire behind the roof allows the area behind the roof to see some action and relevancy as well as cutting down on sight lines.
IMO, you should just get rid of the alley that is now blocked off and drag the whole yard over a bit.
IMO, you should just get rid of the alley that is now blocked off and drag the whole yard over a bit.
Sorry guys, I've had a really busy few days that I wasn't planning on. I'll be trying to work on the map as much as I can over the weekend, but I can't make any promises as to a release (sorryyy).
Pythooonimo, just remove the spire and put the cp on the roof. much more simpler, no need to put so much effort into something that people generally don't want.
People in the other thread seemed to like the idea of a spire, and it's my favorite part of the map as of now. I'm pretty sure it will play in a very fun way. Putting the point on the roof adds OP sightlines, pretty much only one route to push (even if I were to remove the giant wall, and creates a very, very cramped space to hold in any environment other than 6s.
MerchantIMO, you should just get rid of the alley that is now blocked off and drag the whole yard over a bit.
I want to keep the shape of the original badwater. Otherwise, making a Co_badwater is kind of silly IMO.
Sorry guys, I've had a really busy few days that I wasn't planning on. I'll be trying to work on the map as much as I can over the weekend, but I can't make any promises as to a release (sorryyy).
[quote=Pythooon]imo, just remove the spire and put the cp on the roof. much more simpler, no need to put so much effort into something that people generally don't want.[/quote]
People in the other thread seemed to like the idea of a spire, and it's my favorite part of the map as of now. I'm pretty sure it will play in a very fun way. Putting the point on the roof adds OP sightlines, pretty much only one route to push (even if I were to remove the giant wall, and creates a very, very cramped space to hold in any environment other than 6s.
[quote=Merchant]IMO, you should just get rid of the alley that is now blocked off and drag the whole yard over a bit.[/quote]
I want to keep the shape of the original badwater. Otherwise, making a Co_badwater is kind of silly IMO.
[quote=Pythooon]imo, just remove the spire and put the cp on the roof. much more simpler, no need to put so much effort into something that people generally don't want.[/quote]
People in the other thread seemed to like the idea of a spire, and it's my favorite part of the map as of now. I'm pretty sure it will play in a very fun way. Putting the point on the roof adds OP sightlines, pretty much only one route to push (even if I were to remove the giant wall, and creates a very, very cramped space to hold in any environment other than 6s.
[quote=Merchant]IMO, you should just get rid of the alley that is now blocked off and drag the whole yard over a bit.[/quote]
I want to keep the shape of the original badwater. Otherwise, making a Co_badwater is kind of silly IMO.
KevinIsPwnI want to keep the shape of the original badwater. Otherwise, making a Co_badwater is kind of silly IMO.
I agree personally that you should try to keep the general shape of the original badwater, but I think making an edit from pl_ to cp_ necessitates looking at the bits that make it pl_ (i.e. the payload card track) and seeing what they contribute to 5CP gameplay. IMO, particularly necessary for review are the position of the first point (which you already edited and I think put in a nice spot), the alleyway leading up to the second point, the ramp leading down into the third point area (and resulting giant sniper sightline), and the inherently height-disadvantaged final capture point (could be a place that actually calls for a spire).
[quote=KevinIsPwn]I want to keep the shape of the original badwater. Otherwise, making a Co_badwater is kind of silly IMO.[/quote]
I agree personally that you should try to keep the general shape of the original badwater, but I think making an edit from pl_ to cp_ necessitates looking at the bits that make it pl_ (i.e. the payload card track) and seeing what they contribute to 5CP gameplay. IMO, particularly necessary for review are the position of the first point (which you already edited and I think put in a nice spot), the alleyway leading up to the second point, the ramp leading down into the third point area (and resulting giant sniper sightline), and the inherently height-disadvantaged final capture point (could be a place that actually calls for a spire).
I agree personally that you should try to keep the general shape of the original badwater, but I think making an edit from pl_ to cp_ necessitates looking at the bits that make it pl_ (i.e. the payload card track) and seeing what they contribute to 5CP gameplay. IMO, particularly necessary for review are the position of the first point (which you already edited and I think put in a nice spot), the alleyway leading up to the second point, the ramp leading down into the third point area (and resulting giant sniper sightline), and the inherently height-disadvantaged final capture point (could be a place that actually calls for a spire).
PacifistSomebody make cp_spire, it shouldn't take long, just have 5 spires and 4 planks connecting them
That sort of already exists. It's called cp_5pire, I believe.
[quote=Pacifist]Somebody make cp_spire, it shouldn't take long, just have 5 spires and 4 planks connecting them[/quote]
That sort of already exists. It's called cp_5pire, I believe.
That sort of already exists. It's called cp_5pire, I believe.
choochoo5CP
OH MY GOD IT ISN'T 5CP
sorry, everyone seems to be assuming it's 5cp
[quote=choochoo]5CP[/quote]
OH MY GOD IT ISN'T 5CP
sorry, everyone seems to be assuming it's 5cp
OH MY GOD IT ISN'T 5CP
sorry, everyone seems to be assuming it's 5cp
That third CP looks like a deathtrap as well. Why not put it on the tracks beside that flight of stairs.
That third CP looks like a deathtrap as well. Why not put it on the tracks beside that flight of stairs.
Guys
When you say 5CP, it doesn't refer to the number of control points on the map. It refers to a push CP style of map which happens to have 5 control points. Like badlands.
So just because it has five control points doesn't mean it's 5CP.
Guys
When you say 5CP, it doesn't refer to the number of control points on the map. It refers to a push CP style of map which happens to have 5 control points. Like badlands.
So just because it has five control points doesn't mean it's 5CP.
When you say 5CP, it doesn't refer to the number of control points on the map. It refers to a push CP style of map which happens to have 5 control points. Like badlands.
So just because it has five control points doesn't mean it's 5CP.
wareyaGuys
When you say 5CP, it doesn't refer to the number of control points on the map. It refers to a push CP style of map which happens to have 5 control points. Like badlands.
So just because it has five control points doesn't mean it's 5CP.
Um... no. 5cp is a 5 point control point map which both teams try to cap all points. Even if this weren't the case, the map has 4 points.
EDIT: I'M A JERK AND MISREAD YOUR MESSAGE SORRY FOR BEING SASSY.
[quote=wareya]Guys
When you say 5CP, it doesn't refer to the number of control points on the map. It refers to a push CP style of map which happens to have 5 control points. Like badlands.
So just because it has five control points doesn't mean it's 5CP.[/quote]
Um... no. 5cp is a 5 point control point map which both teams try to cap all points. Even if this weren't the case, the map has 4 points.
[b]EDIT: I'M A JERK AND MISREAD YOUR MESSAGE SORRY FOR BEING SASSY.[/b]
When you say 5CP, it doesn't refer to the number of control points on the map. It refers to a push CP style of map which happens to have 5 control points. Like badlands.
So just because it has five control points doesn't mean it's 5CP.[/quote]
Um... no. 5cp is a 5 point control point map which both teams try to cap all points. Even if this weren't the case, the map has 4 points.
[b]EDIT: I'M A JERK AND MISREAD YOUR MESSAGE SORRY FOR BEING SASSY.[/b]
"which both teams try to cap all points" is what push CP is. Learn your jargon.
"which both teams try to cap all points" is what push CP is. Learn your jargon.
wareyaGuys
When you say 5CP, it doesn't refer to the number of control points on the map. It refers to a push CP style of map which happens to have 5 control points. Like badlands.
So just because it has five control points doesn't mean it's 5CP.
is there some official place where all this 'jargon' is codified or something
because i think if a map has five (5) control points (cp) then it is probably a fair reason to call it a '5cp' map
[quote=wareya]Guys
When you say 5CP, it doesn't refer to the number of control points on the map. It refers to a push CP style of map which happens to have 5 control points. Like badlands.
So just because it has five control points doesn't mean it's 5CP.[/quote]
is there some official place where all this 'jargon' is codified or something
because i think if a map has five (5) control points (cp) then it is probably a fair reason to call it a '5cp' map
When you say 5CP, it doesn't refer to the number of control points on the map. It refers to a push CP style of map which happens to have 5 control points. Like badlands.
So just because it has five control points doesn't mean it's 5CP.[/quote]
is there some official place where all this 'jargon' is codified or something
because i think if a map has five (5) control points (cp) then it is probably a fair reason to call it a '5cp' map
wareya"which both teams try to cap all points" is what push CP is. Learn your jargon.
I misread your comment, sorry. I agree with you.
[quote=wareya]"which both teams try to cap all points" is what push CP is. Learn your jargon.[/quote]
I misread your comment, sorry. I agree with you.
I misread your comment, sorry. I agree with you.
mince__wareyaGuys
When you say 5CP, it doesn't refer to the number of control points on the map. It refers to a push CP style of map which happens to have 5 control points. Like badlands.
So just because it has five control points doesn't mean it's 5CP.
is there some official place where all this 'jargon' is codified or something
because i think if a map has five (5) control points (cp) then it is probably a fair reason to call it a '5cp' map
No, but the term "5CP" is generally accepted as the name for any push CP maps (Badlands, Granary, Process, etc.). It avoids some confusion, but now I'm seeing that it causes other types of confusion, so I think we should just call those maps push CP (or just push) maps.
[quote=mince__][quote=wareya]Guys
When you say 5CP, it doesn't refer to the number of control points on the map. It refers to a push CP style of map which happens to have 5 control points. Like badlands.
So just because it has five control points doesn't mean it's 5CP.[/quote]
is there some official place where all this 'jargon' is codified or something
because i think if a map has five (5) control points (cp) then it is probably a fair reason to call it a '5cp' map[/quote]
No, but the term "5CP" is generally accepted as the name for any push CP maps (Badlands, Granary, Process, etc.). It avoids some confusion, but now I'm seeing that it causes other types of confusion, so I think we should just call those maps push CP (or just push) maps.
When you say 5CP, it doesn't refer to the number of control points on the map. It refers to a push CP style of map which happens to have 5 control points. Like badlands.
So just because it has five control points doesn't mean it's 5CP.[/quote]
is there some official place where all this 'jargon' is codified or something
because i think if a map has five (5) control points (cp) then it is probably a fair reason to call it a '5cp' map[/quote]
No, but the term "5CP" is generally accepted as the name for any push CP maps (Badlands, Granary, Process, etc.). It avoids some confusion, but now I'm seeing that it causes other types of confusion, so I think we should just call those maps push CP (or just push) maps.
Um...
http://i.imgur.com/9CFkOmv.jpg
Edit: Better image
http://i.imgur.com/EEEvWLQ.jpg
Also:
http://i.imgur.com/GvYVi1s.png
The map has a leak.
Um...
[img]http://i.imgur.com/9CFkOmv.jpg[/img]
Edit: Better image
[img]http://i.imgur.com/EEEvWLQ.jpg[/img]
Also:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/GvYVi1s.png[/img]
The map has a leak.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/9CFkOmv.jpg[/img]
Edit: Better image
[img]http://i.imgur.com/EEEvWLQ.jpg[/img]
Also:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/GvYVi1s.png[/img]
The map has a leak.
hookyThe map has a leak.
Yup, I was working on that when you posted and just finished today. Leaks/ skybox fixed for next release, hopefully in a few hours. :)
http://i.imgur.com/nTCA8ms.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JGmPLmX.jpg
All that's left is detailing (see: un-discustifying) spire and fixing a gate trigger that I broke when fixing 2nd's cap trigger.
[quote=hooky]The map has a leak.[/quote]
Yup, I was working on that when you posted and just finished today. Leaks/ skybox fixed for next release, hopefully in a few hours. :)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/nTCA8ms.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/JGmPLmX.jpg[/img]
All that's left is detailing (see: un-discustifying) spire and fixing a gate trigger that I broke when fixing 2nd's cap trigger.
Yup, I was working on that when you posted and just finished today. Leaks/ skybox fixed for next release, hopefully in a few hours. :)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/nTCA8ms.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/JGmPLmX.jpg[/img]
All that's left is detailing (see: un-discustifying) spire and fixing a gate trigger that I broke when fixing 2nd's cap trigger.
I have two drafts of possibilities for the spire. Sorry I didn't release when I said I would, Hammer is quite fragile and I broke some stuff. Anyways, here's what I have:
Wood:
http://i.imgur.com/dCyY6lI.jpg
Concrete:
http://i.imgur.com/NyghxSI.jpg
Personally, I like the rusty wooden one, because it fits the RED build style. However, people brought up valid points about the surrounding area and how the wood spire didn't quite fit. That was sort of the intent, but whatever. Please tell me what you think.
I have two drafts of possibilities for the spire. Sorry I didn't release when I said I would, Hammer is quite fragile and I broke some stuff. Anyways, here's what I have:
Wood:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/dCyY6lI.jpg[/img]
Concrete:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/NyghxSI.jpg[/img]
Personally, I like the rusty wooden one, because it fits the RED build style. However, people brought up valid points about the surrounding area and how the wood spire didn't quite fit. That was sort of the intent, but whatever. Please tell me what you think.
Wood:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/dCyY6lI.jpg[/img]
Concrete:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/NyghxSI.jpg[/img]
Personally, I like the rusty wooden one, because it fits the RED build style. However, people brought up valid points about the surrounding area and how the wood spire didn't quite fit. That was sort of the intent, but whatever. Please tell me what you think.
KevinIsPwnConcrete:
img here
Please tell me what you think.
I personally think concrete looks great, blends in well with the surrounding area.
[quote=KevinIsPwn]
Concrete:
img here
Please tell me what you think.[/quote]
I personally think concrete looks great, blends in well with the surrounding area.
Concrete:
img here
Please tell me what you think.[/quote]
I personally think concrete looks great, blends in well with the surrounding area.
Concrete blends in better but I liked your theory about RED taking over BLU's base and building their own control points so I vote for wooden spire.
Concrete blends in better but I liked your theory about RED taking over BLU's base and building their own control points so I vote for wooden spire.
KevinIsPwn<snip>
IMO the concrete spire is better. If we look at the roof, that is an area that is mainly BLU with lots of concrete and things. However the RED influence is present in the detailing so maybe a bit of that?
[quote=KevinIsPwn]<snip>[/quote]
IMO the concrete spire is better. If we look at the roof, that is an area that is mainly BLU with lots of concrete and things. However the RED influence is present in the detailing so maybe a bit of that?
IMO the concrete spire is better. If we look at the roof, that is an area that is mainly BLU with lots of concrete and things. However the RED influence is present in the detailing so maybe a bit of that?
if you know how to edit displacements in hammer, i'd suggest adding a hilled region behind the spire
if you dont know how to use displacements, u definitely should know
http://i.imgur.com/EhCbP2V.gif
i made this image to help illustrate what i mean
if you know how to edit displacements in hammer, i'd suggest adding a hilled region behind the spire
if you dont know how to use displacements, u definitely should know
[img]http://i.imgur.com/EhCbP2V.gif[/img]
i made this image to help illustrate what i mean
if you dont know how to use displacements, u definitely should know
[img]http://i.imgur.com/EhCbP2V.gif[/img]
i made this image to help illustrate what i mean
I guess the majority of people like the concrete spire better, so I'll end up using that. I'm having some hammer issues, but the next release should be out pretty soon, which will include nerfed sightlines, better spire, and better cap-times.
miwoi'd suggest adding a hilled region behind the spire
I don't particularly fancy changing anything huge, such as the landscape stuff. I'll probably be adding the rocks back in to make height back there.
If your team/ pug group wants to playtest the map in highlander or 6s, please add me.
I guess the majority of people like the concrete spire better, so I'll end up using that. I'm having some hammer issues, but the next release should be out pretty soon, which will include nerfed sightlines, better spire, and better cap-times.
[quote=miwo]i'd suggest adding a hilled region behind the spire[/quote]
I don't particularly fancy changing anything huge, such as the landscape stuff. I'll probably be adding the rocks back in to make height back there.
[b]If your team/ pug group wants to playtest the map in highlander or 6s, please [url=steamcommunity.com/id/kevinispwn]add me[/url].[/b]
[quote=miwo]i'd suggest adding a hilled region behind the spire[/quote]
I don't particularly fancy changing anything huge, such as the landscape stuff. I'll probably be adding the rocks back in to make height back there.
[b]If your team/ pug group wants to playtest the map in highlander or 6s, please [url=steamcommunity.com/id/kevinispwn]add me[/url].[/b]
BLoodSireditch the spire idea, put a CP on top of the roof where the sentry nest happens in pubs
While I think the work you've put into making a spire is great, I'm not sure if it's really necessary. The roof already lent itself to some great A/D gameplay, and it's kind of confusing going from an area on the PL that was rarely used to an entire capture point on the CP version.
I know everybody is "ooo add a spire," but I don't think this is the map for it. Keep it simple.
[quote=BLoodSire]ditch the spire idea, put a CP on top of the roof where the sentry nest happens in pubs[/quote]
While I think the work you've put into making a spire is great, I'm not sure if it's really necessary. The roof already lent itself to some great A/D gameplay, and it's kind of confusing going from an area on the PL that was rarely used to an entire capture point on the CP version.
I know everybody is "ooo add a spire," but I don't think this is the map for it. Keep it simple.
While I think the work you've put into making a spire is great, I'm not sure if it's really necessary. The roof already lent itself to some great A/D gameplay, and it's kind of confusing going from an area on the PL that was rarely used to an entire capture point on the CP version.
I know everybody is "ooo add a spire," but I don't think this is the map for it. Keep it simple.
Yeah i think the general improvements to the map (stuff like fixing 3rd, and making the whole map less tight) are all good. However, badwater roof and the area surrounding it provides some of the best experiences ive had in tf2. And youve gone and thrown a spire right in the middle of it.
If youre going to completely redo a CP, go crazy with 3rd. 2nd should be left alone till people test the map.
Yeah i think the general improvements to the map (stuff like fixing 3rd, and making the whole map less tight) are all good. However, badwater roof and the area surrounding it provides some of the best experiences ive had in tf2. And youve gone and thrown a spire right in the middle of it.
If youre going to completely redo a CP, go crazy with 3rd. 2nd should be left alone till people test the map.
If youre going to completely redo a CP, go crazy with 3rd. 2nd should be left alone till people test the map.
I really like the concrete spire. I felt the old one was out of place. You make a good point about the build styles though
I really like the concrete spire. I felt the old one was out of place. You make a good point about the build styles though
I guess I'll end up using the concrete spire for now. I've been busy the past few days, but will hopefully get some work done this weekend.
I know everybody is "ooo add a spire," but I don't think this is the map for it. Keep it simple.
Spire worked pretty well in pugs. Putting the cap on the roof would cause crowding on the roof, as there wouldn't be anywhere else to hold effectively than on the roof itself.
I guess I'll end up using the concrete spire for now. I've been busy the past few days, but will hopefully get some work done this weekend.
[quote]I know everybody is "ooo add a spire," but I don't think this is the map for it. Keep it simple.[/quote]
Spire worked pretty well in pugs. Putting the cap on the roof would cause crowding on the roof, as there wouldn't be anywhere else to hold effectively than on the roof itself.
[quote]I know everybody is "ooo add a spire," but I don't think this is the map for it. Keep it simple.[/quote]
Spire worked pretty well in pugs. Putting the cap on the roof would cause crowding on the roof, as there wouldn't be anywhere else to hold effectively than on the roof itself.
KevinIsPwnSpire worked pretty well in pugs. Putting the cap on the roof would cause crowding on the roof, as there wouldn't be anywhere else to hold effectively than on the roof itself.
Hmm thats an interesting point. Why did you initially move the CP away from the traditional spot?
[quote=KevinIsPwn]Spire worked pretty well in pugs. Putting the cap on the roof would cause crowding on the roof, as there wouldn't be anywhere else to hold effectively than on the roof itself.[/quote]
Hmm thats an interesting point. Why did you initially move the CP away from the traditional spot?
Hmm thats an interesting point. Why did you initially move the CP away from the traditional spot?
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