I'm more than willing to work with Nahanni. I wonder if she would be down to collaborate with me.
Pros and Cons of NA League choices
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
Well, whatever we do, we all need to back the decision. If we don't, we are weaker. We are strong as a community, not individuals. I mentioned a potential vote before, but I don't know how it would work. I think it's worth a shot.
Well, whatever we do, we all need to back the decision. If we don't, we are weaker. We are strong as a community, not individuals. I mentioned a potential vote before, but I don't know how it would work. I think it's worth a shot.
Before we start trying to narrow down our choices, I think it's important to realize that we have the rest of the ESEA regular season and playoffs to figure things out.
Personally, I think that we should allow leagues to submit their own bids and explain why they would be best suited to host the ESEA refugees. After all, if a league wants to be the future of competitive TF2, they should show that they have the dedication and ability to do so well.
Before we start trying to narrow down our choices, I think it's important to realize that we have the rest of the ESEA regular season and playoffs to figure things out.
Personally, I think that we should allow leagues to submit their own bids and explain why they would be best suited to host the ESEA refugees. After all, if a league wants to be the future of competitive TF2, they should show that they have the dedication and ability to do so well.
Personally, I think that we should allow leagues to submit their own bids and explain why they would be best suited to host the ESEA refugees. After all, if a league wants to be the future of competitive TF2, they should show that they have the dedication and ability to do so well.
I think that a TFTV League/ Community made league sounds intriguing and I bet a lot of people would be willing to try this out, hopefully...
also you forgot to put this in MLA format -20 points
I think that a TFTV League/ Community made league sounds intriguing and I bet a lot of people would be willing to try this out, hopefully...
also you forgot to put this in MLA format -20 points
also you forgot to put this in MLA format -20 points
thesupremecommanderBefore we start trying to narrow down our choices, I think it's important to realize that we have the rest of the ESEA regular season and playoffs to figure things out.
Sure that seems like a lot of time, but ~2.5 months is practically nothing when it comes to implementing something this large. If we want an option that isn't ESEA, we need to figure it out by December or otherwise you can expect to see everybody playing in s16.
[quote=thesupremecommander]Before we start trying to narrow down our choices, I think it's important to realize that we have the rest of the ESEA regular season and playoffs to figure things out.[/quote]
Sure that seems like a lot of time, but ~2.5 months is practically nothing when it comes to implementing something this large. If we want an option that isn't ESEA, we need to figure it out by December or otherwise you can expect to see everybody playing in s16.
Sure that seems like a lot of time, but ~2.5 months is practically nothing when it comes to implementing something this large. If we want an option that isn't ESEA, we need to figure it out by December or otherwise you can expect to see everybody playing in s16.
Someone explain to me why everyone shouldn't just move to CEVO for now. I don't know much about why they shut down a while ago but they seemed like they were willing to start over. Their client isn't too intensive and if I remember correctly you use your own server, so no more low quality ESEA style servers
Someone explain to me why everyone shouldn't just move to CEVO for now. I don't know much about why they shut down a while ago but they seemed like they were willing to start over. Their client isn't too intensive and if I remember correctly you use your own server, so no more low quality ESEA style servers
IcyWindSomeone explain to me why everyone shouldn't just move to CEVO for now. I don't know much about why they shut down a while ago but they seemed like they were willing to start over. Their client isn't too intensive and if I remember correctly you use your own server, so no more low quality ESEA style servers
For why not, check the cons that i put in the original post.
ss for client, I remember when I played CEVO that the client often did not work correctly and just made things worse. I also remember that since you were not playing on dedicated servers, you didn't have to join through the client and negated the necessity of it.
[quote=IcyWind]Someone explain to me why everyone shouldn't just move to CEVO for now. I don't know much about why they shut down a while ago but they seemed like they were willing to start over. Their client isn't too intensive and if I remember correctly you use your own server, so no more low quality ESEA style servers[/quote]
For why not, check the cons that i put in the original post.
ss for client, I remember when I played CEVO that the client often did not work correctly and just made things worse. I also remember that since you were not playing on dedicated servers, you didn't have to join through the client and negated the necessity of it.
For why not, check the cons that i put in the original post.
ss for client, I remember when I played CEVO that the client often did not work correctly and just made things worse. I also remember that since you were not playing on dedicated servers, you didn't have to join through the client and negated the necessity of it.
Mr_Perfectalso you forgot to put this in MLA format -20 points
I spent 45 mins writing this. Gimme a break
[quote=Mr_Perfect]also you forgot to put this in MLA format -20 points[/quote]
I spent 45 mins writing this. Gimme a break
I spent 45 mins writing this. Gimme a break
thesupremecommanderBefore we start trying to narrow down our choices, I think it's important to realize that we have the rest of the ESEA regular season and playoffs to figure things out.
Personally, I think that we should allow leagues to submit their own bids and explain why they would be best suited to host the ESEA refugees. After all, if a league wants to be the future of competitive TF2, they should show that they have the dedication and ability to do so well.
If you see my post, I added the line in all caps to say that.
[quote=thesupremecommander]Before we start trying to narrow down our choices, I think it's important to realize that we have the rest of the ESEA regular season and playoffs to figure things out.
Personally, I think that we should allow leagues to submit their own bids and explain why they would be best suited to host the ESEA refugees. After all, if a league wants to be the future of competitive TF2, they should show that they have the dedication and ability to do so well.[/quote]
If you see my post, I added the line in all caps to say that.
Personally, I think that we should allow leagues to submit their own bids and explain why they would be best suited to host the ESEA refugees. After all, if a league wants to be the future of competitive TF2, they should show that they have the dedication and ability to do so well.[/quote]
If you see my post, I added the line in all caps to say that.
Let me throw a pipe bomb.....has any person that has or still is playing in invite cared to say anything about ESEA's shenanigans about the bitcoin issue but as well as their customer service towards accommodating a better outlook on resolving issues when we are technically paying money to support a business like that....
Where is brad?
Let me throw a pipe bomb.....has any person that has or still is playing in invite cared to say anything about ESEA's shenanigans about the bitcoin issue but as well as their customer service towards accommodating a better outlook on resolving issues when we are technically paying money to support a business like that....
Where is brad?
Where is brad?
i just want to say I would prefer the EU ruleset...playing more than 1 map a week would be sick
i just want to say I would prefer the EU ruleset...playing more than 1 map a week would be sick
CHE_Let me throw a pipe bomb.....has any person that has or still is playing in invite cared to say anything about ESEA's shenanigans about the bitcoin issue but as well as their customer service towards accommodating a better outlook on resolving issues when we are technically paying money to support a business like that....
Where is brad?
We need a high level player to take a step in our direction, but I think they're afraid something will happen during the invite season.
[quote=CHE_]Let me throw a pipe bomb.....has any person that has or still is playing in invite cared to say anything about ESEA's shenanigans about the bitcoin issue but as well as their customer service towards accommodating a better outlook on resolving issues when we are technically paying money to support a business like that....
Where is brad?[/quote]
We need a high level player to take a step in our direction, but I think they're afraid something will happen during the invite season.
Where is brad?[/quote]
We need a high level player to take a step in our direction, but I think they're afraid something will happen during the invite season.
what efforts have been made at sponsors? have they ever been pursued? and to what extent? I feel like sponsorship gets written off really quickly
what efforts have been made at sponsors? have they ever been pursued? and to what extent? I feel like sponsorship gets written off really quickly
while i dont support esea, the league IS established and the LAN is a spectacle that I think really keeps a lot of people interested. The league and its staff might be total shit, but at least they arent going anywhere and they are the only league who are going to offer decent prize money and the LAN, both of which are vital to the survival of the comp scene IMO.
while i dont support esea, the league IS established and the LAN is a spectacle that I think really keeps a lot of people interested. The league and its staff might be total shit, but at least they arent going anywhere and they are the only league who are going to offer decent prize money and the LAN, both of which are vital to the survival of the comp scene IMO.
The think I dislike about all of the alternative leagues as they stand right now is the fact that they rely on teams providing their own server. This is one thing ESEA does right - they provide a standard experience. You know that no matter who you play or when, you're always going to be able to see stats, you're always going to have SourceTV coverage available, and you're always going to have a demo download after the match.
The think I dislike about all of the alternative leagues as they stand right now is the fact that they rely on teams providing their own server. This is one thing ESEA does right - they provide a standard experience. You know that no matter who you play or when, you're always going to be able to see stats, you're always going to have SourceTV coverage available, and you're always going to have a demo download after the match.
the main problem with making a brand new league is the disproportionate amount of time and effort that some people will have to put in to make it functional. not to doubt the vehemence of the people in this thread, and around the community, who are trying to make a new paid league a reality for all of us, of course, but if there isn't a solid option in the next few months we will likely have to default back to esea for another season.
the main problem with making a brand new league is the disproportionate amount of time and effort that some people will have to put in to make it functional. not to doubt the vehemence of the people in this thread, and around the community, who are trying to make a new paid league a reality for all of us, of course, but if there isn't a solid option in the next few months we will likely [i]have to default[/i] back to esea for another season.
mince__the main problem with making a brand new league is the disproportionate amount of time and effort that some people will have to put in to make it functional. not to doubt the vehemence of the people in this thread, and around the community, who are trying to make a new paid league a reality for all of us, of course, but if there isn't a solid option in the next few months we will likely have to default back to esea for another season.
If a new league doesn't pop up, there are still the alternative leagues like UGC and CEVO. We already know they won't be making any significant changes in order to accommodate the player influx - they're just going to add in new divisions and call it a day.
Thus, there's not really additional risk in trying to make a new league, no more than in a normal effort.
[quote=mince__]the main problem with making a brand new league is the disproportionate amount of time and effort that some people will have to put in to make it functional. not to doubt the vehemence of the people in this thread, and around the community, who are trying to make a new paid league a reality for all of us, of course, but if there isn't a solid option in the next few months we will likely [i]have to default[/i] back to esea for another season.[/quote]
If a new league doesn't pop up, there are still the alternative leagues like UGC and CEVO. We already know they won't be making any significant changes in order to accommodate the player influx - they're just going to add in new divisions and call it a day.
Thus, there's not really additional risk in trying to make a new league, no more than in a normal effort.
If a new league doesn't pop up, there are still the alternative leagues like UGC and CEVO. We already know they won't be making any significant changes in order to accommodate the player influx - they're just going to add in new divisions and call it a day.
Thus, there's not really additional risk in trying to make a new league, no more than in a normal effort.
Making another league is fucking pointless. We have cevo or na etf2l? Just going to be a waste of time.
Making another league is fucking pointless. We have cevo or na etf2l? Just going to be a waste of time.
thesupremecommanderPersonally, I think that we should allow leagues to submit their own bids and explain why they would be best suited to host the ESEA refugees. After all, if a league wants to be the future of competitive TF2, they should show that they have the dedication and ability to do so well.
I agree. We should figure out who is willing to take charge of this (Nahanni and IARENOBODY?) and have them talk to the different leagues and get bids and talk to current and former invite players to see what their opinions are. I think that most of them are either worried about consequences from ESEA for supporting something else or they just want a LAN and don't care about ESEA's problems. Either way, someone should talk to them and see where they stand.
[quote=thesupremecommander]
Personally, I think that we should allow leagues to submit their own bids and explain why they would be best suited to host the ESEA refugees. After all, if a league wants to be the future of competitive TF2, they should show that they have the dedication and ability to do so well.[/quote]
I agree. We should figure out who is willing to take charge of this (Nahanni and IARENOBODY?) and have them talk to the different leagues and get bids and talk to current and former invite players to see what their opinions are. I think that most of them are either worried about consequences from ESEA for supporting something else or they just want a LAN and don't care about ESEA's problems. Either way, someone should talk to them and see where they stand.
Personally, I think that we should allow leagues to submit their own bids and explain why they would be best suited to host the ESEA refugees. After all, if a league wants to be the future of competitive TF2, they should show that they have the dedication and ability to do so well.[/quote]
I agree. We should figure out who is willing to take charge of this (Nahanni and IARENOBODY?) and have them talk to the different leagues and get bids and talk to current and former invite players to see what their opinions are. I think that most of them are either worried about consequences from ESEA for supporting something else or they just want a LAN and don't care about ESEA's problems. Either way, someone should talk to them and see where they stand.
Nahanni actually meant to say that she supports CEVO. I don't personally agree with that, but I respect her opinion.
Here's a strawpoll, by the way, about this: http://strawpoll.me/741278/
Nahanni actually meant to say that she supports CEVO. I don't personally agree with that, but I respect her opinion.
Here's a strawpoll, by the way, about this: http://strawpoll.me/741278/
Here's a strawpoll, by the way, about this: http://strawpoll.me/741278/
VoloderthesupremecommanderPersonally, I think that we should allow leagues to submit their own bids and explain why they would be best suited to host the ESEA refugees. After all, if a league wants to be the future of competitive TF2, they should show that they have the dedication and ability to do so well.I agree. We should figure out who is willing to take charge of this (Nahanni and IARENOBODY?) and have them talk to the different leagues and get bids and talk to current and former invite players to see what their opinions are. I think that most of them are either worried about consequences from ESEA for supporting something else or they just want a LAN and don't care about ESEA's problems. Either way, someone should talk to them and see where they stand.
As I've said or implied, I do have the blueprints to making a league that I designed a few months ago and have been tweaking ever since. You can most certainly make a league that is superior to ESEA in every way except for the LAN and the anti-cheat client, but it's going to take more than one person to make.
[quote=Voloder][quote=thesupremecommander]
Personally, I think that we should allow leagues to submit their own bids and explain why they would be best suited to host the ESEA refugees. After all, if a league wants to be the future of competitive TF2, they should show that they have the dedication and ability to do so well.[/quote]
I agree. We should figure out who is willing to take charge of this (Nahanni and IARENOBODY?) and have them talk to the different leagues and get bids and talk to current and former invite players to see what their opinions are. I think that most of them are either worried about consequences from ESEA for supporting something else or they just want a LAN and don't care about ESEA's problems. Either way, someone should talk to them and see where they stand.[/quote]
As I've said or implied, I do have the blueprints to making a league that I designed a few months ago and have been tweaking ever since. You can most certainly make a league that is superior to ESEA in every way except for the LAN and the anti-cheat client, but it's going to take more than one person to make.
Personally, I think that we should allow leagues to submit their own bids and explain why they would be best suited to host the ESEA refugees. After all, if a league wants to be the future of competitive TF2, they should show that they have the dedication and ability to do so well.[/quote]
I agree. We should figure out who is willing to take charge of this (Nahanni and IARENOBODY?) and have them talk to the different leagues and get bids and talk to current and former invite players to see what their opinions are. I think that most of them are either worried about consequences from ESEA for supporting something else or they just want a LAN and don't care about ESEA's problems. Either way, someone should talk to them and see where they stand.[/quote]
As I've said or implied, I do have the blueprints to making a league that I designed a few months ago and have been tweaking ever since. You can most certainly make a league that is superior to ESEA in every way except for the LAN and the anti-cheat client, but it's going to take more than one person to make.
brownymaster Still, it requires a lot of work to actually open demos and review each Cheat complaint filed. I don't doubt human detecting is still very good, but it takes time.
You're right it does, but you have to agree that banning someone from a league is a huge responsibility that should not be taken lightly, and each case needs a lot of material and reviewing from multiple admins before a decision can be made. I'm one of the AC admins at etf2l.org and we take our job very seriously. Is our way more time consuming? Absolutely, but we have detections from various plugins and the good old VAC ban to save us some time with the more obvious cases. Lots of the detections that the ESEA client does is also made client free from many AC plugins.
As for any American wishing for a new tf2 home, as a European i'd welcome you with open arms. We have a dedicated community and a strong admin team consisting of experienced competitive players. Check out the site and take a look around. Lots of gamers have worked really hard on it ;)
[quote=brownymaster] Still, it requires a lot of work to actually open demos and review each Cheat complaint filed. I don't doubt human detecting is still very good, but it takes time.[/quote]
You're right it does, but you have to agree that banning someone from a league is a huge responsibility that should not be taken lightly, and each case needs a lot of material and reviewing from multiple admins before a decision can be made. I'm one of the AC admins at etf2l.org and we take our job very seriously. Is our way more time consuming? Absolutely, but we have detections from various plugins and the good old VAC ban to save us some time with the more obvious cases. Lots of the detections that the ESEA client does is also made client free from many AC plugins.
As for any American wishing for a new tf2 home, as a European i'd welcome you with open arms. We have a dedicated community and a strong admin team consisting of experienced competitive players. Check out the site and take a look around. Lots of gamers have worked really hard on it ;)
You're right it does, but you have to agree that banning someone from a league is a huge responsibility that should not be taken lightly, and each case needs a lot of material and reviewing from multiple admins before a decision can be made. I'm one of the AC admins at etf2l.org and we take our job very seriously. Is our way more time consuming? Absolutely, but we have detections from various plugins and the good old VAC ban to save us some time with the more obvious cases. Lots of the detections that the ESEA client does is also made client free from many AC plugins.
As for any American wishing for a new tf2 home, as a European i'd welcome you with open arms. We have a dedicated community and a strong admin team consisting of experienced competitive players. Check out the site and take a look around. Lots of gamers have worked really hard on it ;)
thesupremecommanderThe think I dislike about all of the alternative leagues as they stand right now is the fact that they rely on teams providing their own server. This is one thing ESEA does right - they provide a standard experience. You know that no matter who you play or when, you're always going to be able to see stats, you're always going to have SourceTV coverage available, and you're always going to have a demo download after the match.
TF2.gg has that functionality now - we have servers built into our system. But the time it takes to develop everything else and manage it... is quite a lot of time...
I talked to the other dev on TF2.gg and we are both on board with using TF2.gg as a stepping stone to building a new league. But it's up to the community to decide which direction it wants to head.
[quote=thesupremecommander]The think I dislike about all of the alternative leagues as they stand right now is the fact that they rely on teams providing their own server. This is one thing ESEA does right - they provide a standard experience. You know that no matter who you play or when, you're always going to be able to see stats, you're always going to have SourceTV coverage available, and you're always going to have a demo download after the match.[/quote]
TF2.gg has that functionality now - we have servers built into our system. But the time it takes to develop everything else and manage it... is quite a lot of time...
I talked to the other dev on TF2.gg and we are both on board with using TF2.gg as a stepping stone to building a new league. But it's up to the community to decide which direction it wants to head.
TF2.gg has that functionality now - we have servers built into our system. But the time it takes to develop everything else and manage it... is quite a lot of time...
I talked to the other dev on TF2.gg and we are both on board with using TF2.gg as a stepping stone to building a new league. But it's up to the community to decide which direction it wants to head.
We have one choice. ESEA. Or we could close shop and end Comp. TF2.
We have one choice. ESEA. Or we could close shop and end Comp. TF2.
BurnDLWe have one choice. ESEA. Or we could close shop and end Comp. TF2.
I'd prefer the latter.
[quote=BurnDL]We have one choice. ESEA. Or we could close shop and end Comp. TF2.[/quote]
I'd prefer the latter.
I'd prefer the latter.
Cevo is the way to go. It was the first league to host comp tf2 events, also hosted big tournaments like killer edge. It really is the only league that could slug it out with esea before esea had lans.
Cevo is the way to go. It was the first league to host comp tf2 events, also hosted big tournaments like killer edge. It really is the only league that could slug it out with esea before esea had lans.
#55 this game becoming a truly huge e-sport is something that I think most people will agree is never ever going to happen.
valve doesn't care, and most of the world doesn't care about competitive FPS. CS:GO is a drop in the bucket compared to any DotA-like or StarCraft and so is TF2 and every other FPS.
If we can agree that TF2 is never going to be a truly huge e-sport, then there is no reason to care if there isn't a league that can provide a LAN.
There will still be LANs (since there are LANs without ESEA), and people could instead use their premium/league fees to help donate towards insomnia world meetups or those LANs.
Don't need a LAN with prize money to enjoy a solid competitive atmosphere. I think the only people who get boned out of this is the Invite players, but I'm sure there is a solution that could be found with UGC or CEVO to still provide something similar...just it isn't the end of the world if TF2 has to do without a league with a LAN. 99% of the people who play this game competitively play in a division in a league without a LAN at the end of that.
#55 this game becoming a truly huge e-sport is something that I think most people will agree is never ever going to happen.
valve doesn't care, and most of the world doesn't care about competitive FPS. CS:GO is a drop in the bucket compared to any DotA-like or StarCraft and so is TF2 and every other FPS.
If we can agree that TF2 is never going to be a truly huge e-sport, then there is no reason to care if there isn't a league that can provide a LAN.
There will still be LANs (since there are LANs without ESEA), and people could instead use their premium/league fees to help donate towards insomnia world meetups or those LANs.
Don't need a LAN with prize money to enjoy a solid competitive atmosphere. I think the only people who get boned out of this is the Invite players, but I'm sure there is a solution that could be found with UGC or CEVO to still provide something similar...just it isn't the end of the world if TF2 has to do without a league with a LAN. 99% of the people who play this game competitively play in a division in a league without a LAN at the end of that.
valve doesn't care, and most of the world doesn't care about competitive FPS. CS:GO is a drop in the bucket compared to any DotA-like or StarCraft and so is TF2 and every other FPS.
If we can agree that TF2 is never going to be a truly huge e-sport, then there is no reason to care if there isn't a league that can provide a LAN.
There will still be LANs (since there are LANs without ESEA), and people could instead use their premium/league fees to help donate towards insomnia world meetups or those LANs.
Don't need a LAN with prize money to enjoy a solid competitive atmosphere. I think the only people who get boned out of this is the Invite players, but I'm sure there is a solution that could be found with UGC or CEVO to still provide something similar...just it isn't the end of the world if TF2 has to do without a league with a LAN. 99% of the people who play this game competitively play in a division in a league without a LAN at the end of that.
BurnDLWe have one choice. ESEA. Or we could close shop and end Comp. TF2.
esea isnt the pinnacle of competitive tf2, more so the friends you play with and the friends you play against.
Just from knowing alot of teams in iron, its incredible to talk about the roster changes and the shennanigans that happen exclusively in UGC Iron, something that takes little to no skill level at all to play, and most of the teams in high iron would continue playing regardless of esea closing or not, im sure every other divison in ugc can support this statement as well. Even at such a low level of skill so much happens, and its actually fun.
Don't count out the entirety of competitive TF2 just if esea passes its round, theres enough to keep the dream going lad.
[quote=BurnDL]We have one choice. ESEA. Or we could close shop and end Comp. TF2.[/quote]
esea isnt the pinnacle of competitive tf2, more so the friends you play with and the friends you play against.
Just from knowing alot of teams in iron, its incredible to talk about the roster changes and the shennanigans that happen [b]exclusively[/b] in UGC Iron, something that takes little to no skill level at all to play, and most of the teams in high iron would continue playing regardless of esea closing or not, im sure every other divison in ugc can support this statement as well. Even at such a low level of skill so much happens, and its actually [b]fun[/b].
Don't count out the entirety of competitive TF2 just if esea passes its round, theres enough to keep the dream going lad.
esea isnt the pinnacle of competitive tf2, more so the friends you play with and the friends you play against.
Just from knowing alot of teams in iron, its incredible to talk about the roster changes and the shennanigans that happen [b]exclusively[/b] in UGC Iron, something that takes little to no skill level at all to play, and most of the teams in high iron would continue playing regardless of esea closing or not, im sure every other divison in ugc can support this statement as well. Even at such a low level of skill so much happens, and its actually [b]fun[/b].
Don't count out the entirety of competitive TF2 just if esea passes its round, theres enough to keep the dream going lad.
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