http://i.imgur.com/eezWHKQ.png

I'm also in support of a TFTV league: it's the most centralized of all the current options. Almost everyone who plays comp TF2 has at least heard of TFTV or even visited it... it would be the easiest for people to transition into.

In my opinion, the best option is a merge of efforts between UGC, AG, and TFTV to create a centralized NA league.

And that's a perfectly fine choice. We just need to realize that the choice is not "Play ESEA or play this magical perfect new league that (insert name here) pulled out of his anus" but "Play ESEA or don't play comp TF2".

It's not necessarily that. Do you have proof to back up your claim? If not, then there's no reason why we shouldn't try to do something else.

Also, UGC seems to be doing fine. And ETF2L.

I think that's a pretty good idea. Which leads to another.

Why not combine a bunch of these ideas? Have TFTV sponsor a community made league that is either made from, or made with tf2.gg? Have the competitive site, league, and pug system all together so we can be one strong community?

Yep, this is exactly my thinking, you worded it in a way I can't.

Right now ESEA's major edge on other leagues is its centralization & monopoly on the top players: everyone is already playing ESEA and the top players have nowhere else to play seriously. The easiest way for a new league to topple these defenses is to have a league built from the ground up by the community's biggest players (enigma, banny, etc) created specifically with the idea of making a uniform mass migration from one league to the other.

Emphasis being on 'uniform'. We don't have enough players to scatter them across two leagues. We either have one working league or a number of failing leagues.

edit: web-site based pug systems are facing this issue as well: tf2center vs. tf2lobby vs. tf2.gg

I think etf2l would be the best choice. They're doing fine all those seasons.

I completely agree with what is being said here, but the thing that manages to pull me over to ETF2L rather than a centralized TFTV League is that it will unify the NA and EU scene under one league. As mentioned prior, it may even catch the attention of Valve to possible repick (?)us back up as a competitive scene, bringing alot more traffic into this community.

Back on topic to the tftv league with tf2.gg, I've been chatting with pascal, and it is very doable. But it will take alot of time and effort. If we (We being used as the tf2.gg team) begin working on it now, it will 1) Won't be anywhere near perfect if it were to release around the same time Season 16 of ESEA would. and 2) Will most likely take a few seasons to really get the groove going.

Honestly, the entire community (including non-NA/EU regions) should come together and create one league. That would be ideal. Probably won't happen though.

Does anyone know what potential Cevo has in terms of creating a LAN? Based on looking at their other games and divisions, they have a substantial amount of teams/players, so they probably wouldn't have a lack of support for a lan.

This is being worked on.

So did something else happen? Or did everyone just remember the whole bitcoin thing? I'm so confused...

Ed: thanks guys

http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14006-meatshot-8-vol-5

Originally, the BitCoin thing didn't affect TF2 players (it was believed that only CS players who always used ESEA for pugs and shit were affected) until the recent case against ESEA came out yesterday with the full details, confirming that anyone who installed/ran the ESEA client was victim.

Edit: Ninja'd by narf, that thread he linked as the details.

I think ETF2L's anti-cheat team is a huge positive. A client with anti-cheat features seems to be a placebo, and it requires you run an additional program.

I think ETF2L being run as an international league under the TFTV banner is the best option. But enigma has show time and time again that he isn't really interested in working on a TFTV league, which is fair enough I guess, especially considering the great work he's already done on this site.

Could somebody with Valve's ear ( eXtine, Sal ... ?) ask Valve for advice as to how they would like us to proceed? Whatever Valve may say does not necessarily have to be followed, but it would be nice to know their thoughts, especially given a clean start with a break from ESEA.

I doubt valve will show any interest in our situation.

We shouldn't focus on a LAN right now. Focus on getting a solid league together.

While I think this is a good idea, it's not completely necessary. We've been doing well by ourselves so we can do well separately.

Could we get a bunch of the people that stepped forward into a mumble so we can work on a single idea? I could contact everyone.

ETF2L isn't going anywhere, has existing structure in place, and in effect unifies the two largest competitive TF2 scenes. ETF2L is non-profit and community run. It's also dedicated for just TF2, so things actually get done when our community puts the effort in.

The only downside to it is the name. Of course there are ways around it, but it might be a little confusing for new players to come in from the US and have to sign up to a European TF2 league website.

I think NA would really enjoy playing in an NA ETF2L league. Might even be able to get some fun 'off-season champions league' going on, where the top few teams of NA prem and EU prem play in a 'home/away' system. More points awarded for an away win (played on other continent's servers) etc...

But yeah... just the name is the issue.

Other options could work too, but I quite like the sound of this one.

Earth TF2 League

I think this is probably the option if a new tf2 league falls apart.

I HAVE A QUESTION WHY AREN'T WE CONSIDERING PLAYING BOTH CEVO AND ETF2L???

HMMM???

don't you think we would be better of just unifying under one league? also too much effort to play both nty

Alright, I think that there's at least one agreement that can be reached - a new league has to be somewhat concrete first before we can judge whether or not it's the best solution going forward. It's not going to do anyone any good to debate further on whether the effort to make a new league should be taken.

I'm going to try to organize a unified team of people who are interested in working on a league. If you're interested, talk to me on Steam.

Play both and see which you prefer. That's smart.

I'm gonna keep playing where I can pay to play against more dedicated competition. If ESEA is the only paid option, then I probably just won't play.

A free league is not a solution. Paying even a nominal fee keeps the competition more serious because it actually means something.

I'm sure the argument will be made that ETF2L is a free league and the prem players are super serious blah blah blah but I'm talking about NA TF2 here. We're used to a paid league and any time I've talked to people who play ESEA and then try free leagues, the same level of commitment just isn't there. There's no investment made, so it's a whole lot easier to dick around or just give up when things don't go your way.

I bet CEVO could be convinced to let us pay fees and use that money to increase the prize pot/pay new tf2 admins a small fee.