A_Happy_DuckyAnd as a woman, can I just say this whole argument about what feminism is, is actually really silly. People like this Dina, Anita Sarkeesian, and most other extreme feminists chose the most redundant and useless things to focus on and actually pull the feminist movement back generations. They are the reason that there is hatred, even from women, towards their whole movement. I've been playing video games for years and I could honestly care less about strong female leads in a video game, so long as it has a great story, and the game play is good.
If you don't like the fact there isn't a strong female lead in video games, then make your own game. But don't take a game like Megaman, use Kickstarter funds, and try to push your own agenda. There are more important issues in society than trying to change a game to have a strong female lead. I guess that makes me an "angry, sweaty, entitled misogynistic nerd" who hates against her own gender, though.
1) I don't see why you feel the need to add "as a woman" to the beginning of your post. Your opinion matters as much as anybody else's and gender has no bearing on that.
2) I'm not sure how Sarkeesian is an extreme feminist. Have you watched her videos? They are extremely well researched,very true, and, most importantly, very mild. It's not like she's calling for girls who play games to rise up against a patriarchy. She just points out that gender roles are extremely evident in video games and it holds our medium back from being legitimate when AAA titles can't deliver a single story that isn't based around gender roles in both men and women.
Unfortunately they ultimately don't really accomplish much, but that's neither here nor there. Point is, they're well done videos.
3) "I've been playing video games for years and I could honestly care less about strong female leads in a video game, so long as it has a great story, and the game play is good."
The fact that you're a girl who plays games who doesn't care about strong female leads doesn't mean no girls who play games don't want strong female leads, and it doesn't mean it's wrong if they do want strong female leads. I don't see why you identify as a girl other than to try giving your post more weight than it deserves.
4) Finally, Might No. 9 is a SUCCESSOR to Megaman. It's not Megaman. It's pretty silly to point out that the title of the franchise that this IP isn't directly connected to has the word "Man" in it and thus cannot feature a female protagonist.
[quote=A_Happy_Ducky]And as a woman, can I just say this whole argument about what feminism is, is actually really silly. People like this Dina, Anita Sarkeesian, and most other extreme feminists chose the most redundant and useless things to focus on and actually pull the feminist movement back generations. They are the reason that there is hatred, even from women, towards their whole movement. I've been playing video games for years and I could honestly care less about strong female leads in a video game, so long as it has a great story, and the game play is good.
If you don't like the fact there isn't a strong female lead in video games, then make your own game. But don't take a game like Mega[b]man[/b], use Kickstarter funds, and try to push your own agenda. There are more important issues in society than trying to change a game to have a strong female lead. I guess that makes me an "angry, sweaty, entitled misogynistic nerd" who hates against her own gender, though.[/quote]
1) I don't see why you feel the need to add "as a woman" to the beginning of your post. Your opinion matters as much as anybody else's and gender has no bearing on that.
2) I'm not sure how Sarkeesian is an extreme feminist. Have you watched her videos? They are extremely well researched,very true, and, most importantly, very mild. It's not like she's calling for girls who play games to rise up against a patriarchy. She just points out that gender roles are extremely evident in video games and it holds our medium back from being legitimate when AAA titles can't deliver a single story that isn't based around gender roles in both men and women.
Unfortunately they ultimately don't really accomplish much, but that's neither here nor there. Point is, they're well done videos.
3) "I've been playing video games for years and I could honestly care less about strong female leads in a video game, so long as it has a great story, and the game play is good."
The fact that you're a girl who plays games who doesn't care about strong female leads doesn't mean no girls who play games don't want strong female leads, and it doesn't mean it's wrong if they do want strong female leads. I don't see why you identify as a girl other than to try giving your post more weight than it deserves.
4) Finally, Might No. 9 is a SUCCESSOR to Megaman. It's not Megaman. It's pretty silly to point out that the title of the franchise that this IP isn't directly connected to has the word "Man" in it and thus cannot feature a female protagonist.
obe, I added "as a woman" to my post not because I felt like society has brought me down to a point where I have to let everyone know I am a woman on the internet, but because there are people out there that decide they are speaking on behalf of every female. This whole thread was about the Dina fiasco and about feminists and your so called outrage from angry misogynistic nerds. Now you're telling me that I am not allowed to identify myself as a woman who does not agree with being called an angry misogynistic nerd, nor with extreme feminist views?
Sarkeesian knows how to make a good presentation. That's not the same as speaking in a well researched manner. She leaves out key important games and characters that show failings in what she is trying to say. So I cannot back someone who refuses to acknowledge evidence that does not support their own argument.
obe_I don't see why you identify as a girl other than to try giving your post more weight than it deserves.
4) Finally, Might No. 9 is a SUCCESSOR to Megaman. It's not Megaman. It's pretty silly to point out that the title of the franchise that this IP isn't directly connected to has the word "Man" in it and thus cannot feature a female protagonist.
So my post holds no weight now? Sounds like you are trying to hold me down because of my gender, which is apparently a very familiar argument for you.
Lastly, back to the reason this thread is here: Might No. 9 kickstarter gave the impression that it was going to create an MM for this generation that holds true to what the fans of MM have been wanting for a very long time. Point is, Dina is not going to help the company do that. If she does, indeed, change the main role to a female, the supporters are going to be upset about that. The fact that her feminist views were brought into light, and the fact that she reacted so poorly is what caused the outrage. It's not because she is a woman. It's because of what she wants to do to the game.
If she wanted the players to be able to choose between male or female at the beginning of the game, fine. But from what is being presented, she wants it to be an exclusive female lead.
obe, I added "as a woman" to my post not because I felt like society has brought me down to a point where I have to let everyone know I am a woman on the internet, but because there are people out there that decide they are speaking on behalf of every female. This whole thread was about the Dina fiasco and about feminists and your so called outrage from angry misogynistic nerds. Now you're telling me that I am not allowed to identify myself as a woman who does not agree with being called an angry misogynistic nerd, nor with extreme feminist views?
Sarkeesian knows how to make a good presentation. That's not the same as speaking in a well researched manner. She leaves out key important games and characters that show failings in what she is trying to say. So I cannot back someone who refuses to acknowledge evidence that does not support their own argument.
[quote=obe_]I don't see why you identify as a girl other than to try giving your post more weight than it deserves.
4) Finally, Might No. 9 is a SUCCESSOR to Megaman. It's not Megaman. It's pretty silly to point out that the title of the franchise that this IP isn't directly connected to has the word "Man" in it and thus cannot feature a female protagonist.[/quote]
So my post holds no weight now? Sounds like you are trying to hold me down because of my gender, which is apparently a very familiar argument for you.
Lastly, back to the reason this thread is here: Might No. 9 kickstarter gave the impression that it was going to create an MM for this generation that holds true to what the fans of MM have been wanting for a very long time. Point is, Dina is not going to help the company do that. If she does, indeed, change the main role to a female, the supporters are going to be upset about that. The fact that her feminist views were brought into light, and the fact that she reacted so poorly is what caused the outrage. It's not because she is a woman. It's because of what she wants to do to the game.
If she wanted the players to be able to choose between male or female at the beginning of the game, fine. But from what is being presented, she wants it to be an exclusive female lead.
http://i.imgur.com/jztLw.jpg
The reactions are likely because of the fact that she fits the female feminist stereotype to the point where she's the antagonist of every 4chan fairytale
so yeah I would argue it does have something to do with her being a woman
The reactions are likely because of the fact that she fits the female feminist stereotype to the point where she's the antagonist of every 4chan fairytale
so yeah I would argue it does have something to do with her being a woman
"She leaves out key important games and characters that show failings in what she is trying to say. So I cannot back someone who refuses to acknowledge evidence that does not support their own argument."
Can you give some examples?
"So my post holds no weight now?"
No, it means it holds just as much weight as every other post in this thread. Your gender doesn't make your opinion any more important than anybody else's, even regarding this subject matter.
"It's not because she is a woman. It's because of what she wants to do to the game."
And that's horrible! That's a horrible thing. If people are outraged because a single art designer wants women to be a little better represented in a game, then that's disgusting to hear.
"If she wanted the players to be able to choose between male or female at the beginning of the game, fine. But from what is being presented, she wants it to be an exclusive female lead."
Some choice would be great. But I see nothing wrong with an exclusive female lead since most games have male exclusive leads.
"She leaves out key important games and characters that show failings in what she is trying to say. So I cannot back someone who refuses to acknowledge evidence that does not support their own argument."
Can you give some examples?
"So my post holds no weight now?"
No, it means it holds just as much weight as every other post in this thread. Your gender doesn't make your opinion any more important than anybody else's, even regarding this subject matter.
"It's not because she is a woman. It's because of what she wants to do to the game."
And that's horrible! That's a horrible thing. If people are outraged because a single art designer wants women to be a little better represented in a game, then that's disgusting to hear.
"If she wanted the players to be able to choose between male or female at the beginning of the game, fine. But from what is being presented, she wants it to be an exclusive female lead."
Some choice would be great. But I see nothing wrong with an exclusive female lead since most games have male exclusive leads.
I don't see the problem with a guy lead either. Since it's mostly guys who play the game anyways. It is a predominantly a male funded industry, and if the fanbase wants it to be a guy... It really shouldn't be a problem. It's not like guys are mad that there are more female cosmetic stores and clothing stores. Where's Victoria's secret for men?
I don't see the problem with a guy lead either. Since it's mostly guys who play the game anyways. It is a predominantly a male funded industry, and if the fanbase wants it to be a guy... It really shouldn't be a problem. It's not like guys are mad that there are more female cosmetic stores and clothing stores. Where's Victoria's secret for men?
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0xoKiH8JJM[/youtube]
are there posters of this guy
are there posters of this guy
pine_beetleI don't see the problem with a guy lead either. Since it's mostly guys who play the game anyways. It is a predominantly a male funded industry, and if the fanbase wants it to be a guy... It really shouldn't be a problem.
You don't see a problem with a guy lead because you're a male talking about an industry dominated by males. It's pretty easy to say something like that when you're in the vocal majority.
pine_beetleIt's not like guys are mad that there are more female cosmetic stores and clothing stores. Where's Victoria's secret for men?
... This is nowhere close to an acceptable analogy. The female market for video games is under-represented. The male market for Victoria's Secret is... just nonexistent. Men don't want male representation in Victoria's Secret because they don't care about Victoria's Secret, or shop at Victoria's Secret. Women want more representation in games because it's not gender specific, like Victoria's Secret. It's just predominantly oriented towards males, and nothing is stopping us from being able to change that. Victoria's Secret isn't predominantly oriented towards females; it is specifically for females, or those who identify as females.
[quote=pine_beetle]I don't see the problem with a guy lead either. Since it's mostly guys who play the game anyways. It is a predominantly a male funded industry, and if the fanbase wants it to be a guy... It really shouldn't be a problem.[/quote]
You don't see a problem with a guy lead because you're a male talking about an industry dominated by males. It's pretty easy to say something like that when you're in the vocal majority.
[quote=pine_beetle]It's not like guys are mad that there are more female cosmetic stores and clothing stores. Where's Victoria's secret for men?[/quote]
... This is nowhere close to an acceptable analogy. The female market for video games is under-represented. The male market for Victoria's Secret is... just nonexistent. Men don't want male representation in Victoria's Secret because they don't care about Victoria's Secret, or shop at Victoria's Secret. Women want more representation in games because it's not gender specific, like Victoria's Secret. It's just predominantly oriented towards males, and nothing is stopping us from being able to change that. Victoria's Secret isn't predominantly oriented towards females; it is specifically for females, or those who identify as females.
Quite surprised to see people hating on feminism (perhaps it's all sarcasm I am not picking up on).
Quite surprised to see people hating on feminism (perhaps it's all sarcasm I am not picking up on).
Saberdoubt anybody can really disagree with that BUT FUCK WOMEN AM I RIGHT HAHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHHAHAAHAHH fuck most of you the rest of this thread is actually making me wanna kill myself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk59imFr6yI thats you next time, bud
[quote=Saber]
doubt anybody can really disagree with that BUT FUCK WOMEN AM I RIGHT HAHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHHAHAAHAHH fuck most of you the rest of this thread is actually making me wanna kill myself[/quote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk59imFr6yI thats you next time, bud
obe_pine_beetleI don't see the problem with a guy lead either. Since it's mostly guys who play the game anyways. It is a predominantly a male funded industry, and if the fanbase wants it to be a guy... It really shouldn't be a problem.
You don't see a problem with a guy lead because you're a male talking about an industry dominated by males. It's pretty easy to say something like that when you're in the vocal majority.
pine_beetleIt's not like guys are mad that there are more female cosmetic stores and clothing stores. Where's Victoria's secret for men?
... This is nowhere close to an acceptable analogy. The female market for video games is under-represented. The male market for Victoria's Secret is... just nonexistent. Men don't want male representation in Victoria's Secret because they don't care about Victoria's Secret, or shop at Victoria's Secret. Women want more representation in games because it's not gender specific, like Victoria's Secret. It's just predominantly oriented towards males, and nothing is stopping us from being able to change that. Victoria's Secret isn't predominantly oriented towards females; it is specifically for females, or those who identify as females.
Ok you're just wrong a lot of games give you the option to play as male or female. Diablo 3, skyrim are among the most popular games of all time and they both give you the option.
Games are gender specific. If you want to talk about "just non-existant" Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1. Who do you think the target market is here? Out of this entire community there are probably only a dozen or so females. It's not because females are being chauvinistically ignored it's because the game just flat out isn't interesting for them at all in any way. In the same way that guys have no interest in female hobbies. There are of course exceptions to this but when you are putting something on the market to make money you need to identify who you are going after and target them specifically.
[quote=obe_][quote=pine_beetle]I don't see the problem with a guy lead either. Since it's mostly guys who play the game anyways. It is a predominantly a male funded industry, and if the fanbase wants it to be a guy... It really shouldn't be a problem.[/quote]
You don't see a problem with a guy lead because you're a male talking about an industry dominated by males. It's pretty easy to say something like that when you're in the vocal majority.
[quote=pine_beetle]It's not like guys are mad that there are more female cosmetic stores and clothing stores. Where's Victoria's secret for men?[/quote]
... This is nowhere close to an acceptable analogy. The female market for video games is under-represented. The male market for Victoria's Secret is... just nonexistent. Men don't want male representation in Victoria's Secret because they don't care about Victoria's Secret, or shop at Victoria's Secret. Women want more representation in games because it's not gender specific, like Victoria's Secret. It's just predominantly oriented towards males, and nothing is stopping us from being able to change that. Victoria's Secret isn't predominantly oriented towards females; it is specifically for females, or those who identify as females.[/quote]
Ok you're just wrong a lot of games give you the option to play as male or female. Diablo 3, skyrim are among the most popular games of all time and they both give you the option.
Games are gender specific. If you want to talk about "just non-existant" Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1. Who do you think the target market is here? Out of this entire community there are probably only a dozen or so females. It's not because females are being chauvinistically ignored it's because the game just flat out isn't interesting for them at all in any way. In the same way that guys have no interest in female hobbies. There are of course exceptions to this but when you are putting something on the market to make money you need to identify who you are going after and target them specifically.
svejkQuite surprised to see people hating on feminism (perhaps it's all sarcasm I am not picking up on).
Nope, there's just this weird stigma against feminism on gaming-oriented parts of the internet. Lots of misinformation and stubbornness.
[quote=svejk]Quite surprised to see people hating on feminism (perhaps it's all sarcasm I am not picking up on).[/quote]
Nope, there's just this weird stigma against feminism on gaming-oriented parts of the internet. Lots of misinformation and stubbornness.
:/ how unfortunate.
As long as women are paid less than men, as long as rape jokes are considered harmless and as long as society imposes double standards, feminism will remain relevant.
:/ how unfortunate.
As long as women are paid less than men, as long as rape jokes are considered harmless and as long as society imposes double standards, feminism will remain relevant.
pine_beetleGames are gender specific. If you want to talk about "just non-existant" Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1.
Ugh... this is just awful to read. Absolutely terrible to read. Please do some research. Don't perpetuate ignorance.
[quote=pine_beetle]Games are gender specific. If you want to talk about "just non-existant" Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1.[/quote]
Ugh... this is just awful to read. Absolutely terrible to read. [url=http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf]Please do some research.[/url] Don't perpetuate ignorance.
It has been clearly stated that the concern people have is that she doesn't meet any of the qualifications and was just brought into the team with no real effort. Everyone else now just seems to be stirring the shit-pot.
It has been clearly stated that the concern people have is that she doesn't meet any of the qualifications and was just brought into the team with no real effort. Everyone else now just seems to be stirring the shit-pot.
ghos7ayama
what an inspiration
[quote=ghos7ayama][/quote]
what an inspiration
SheoIt has been clearly stated that the concern people have is that she doesn't meet any of the qualifications and was just brought into the team with no real effort.
That's understandable. Absolutely understandable. But when blame is pinned on Dina for taking the job as opposed to whoever hired her for putting an unqualified individual on a team of art designers and giving her the position of a PR manager (of which she hasn't done a great job as), then it's easy to see that the misplaced blame is a result of either subconscious misogyny or just plain stupidity.
[quote=Sheo]It has been clearly stated that the concern people have is that she doesn't meet any of the qualifications and was just brought into the team with no real effort.[/quote]
That's understandable. Absolutely understandable. But when blame is pinned on Dina for taking the job as opposed to whoever hired her for putting an unqualified individual on a team of art designers and giving her the position of a PR manager (of which she hasn't done a great job as), then it's easy to see that the misplaced blame is a result of either subconscious misogyny or just plain stupidity.
obe_pine_beetleGames are gender specific. If you want to talk about "just non-existant" Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1.
Ugh... this is just awful to read. Absolutely terrible to read. Please do some research. Don't perpetuate ignorance.
Show me a study on the amount of girls who play megaman vs the amount of guys.
[quote=obe_][quote=pine_beetle]Games are gender specific. If you want to talk about "just non-existant" Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1.[/quote]
Ugh... this is just awful to read. Absolutely terrible to read. [url=http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf]Please do some research.[/url] Don't perpetuate ignorance.[/quote]
Show me a study on the amount of girls who play megaman vs the amount of guys.
holy fucking shit stop posting in this trash thread
it's not funny
should have ended with my post
holy fucking shit stop posting in this trash thread
it's not funny
should have ended with my post
pine_beetleobe_pine_beetleGames are gender specific. If you want to talk about "just non-existant" Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1.
Ugh... this is just awful to read. Absolutely terrible to read. Please do some research. Don't perpetuate ignorance.
Show me a study on the amount of girls who play megaman vs the amount of guys.
Wowza, you're stubborn. I'm not going to respond to your posts anymore.
[quote=pine_beetle][quote=obe_][quote=pine_beetle]Games are gender specific. If you want to talk about "just non-existant" Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1.[/quote]
Ugh... this is just awful to read. Absolutely terrible to read. [url=http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf]Please do some research.[/url] Don't perpetuate ignorance.[/quote]
Show me a study on the amount of girls who play megaman vs the amount of guys.[/quote]
Wowza, you're stubborn. I'm not going to respond to your posts anymore.
obe_pine_beetleobe_pine_beetleGames are gender specific. If you want to talk about "just non-existant" Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1.
Ugh... this is just awful to read. Absolutely terrible to read. Please do some research. Don't perpetuate ignorance.
Show me a study on the amount of girls who play megaman vs the amount of guys.
Wowza, you're stubborn. I'm not going to respond to your posts anymore.
If you're not going to respond who is really being stubborn?
[quote=obe_][quote=pine_beetle][quote=obe_][quote=pine_beetle]Games are gender specific. If you want to talk about "just non-existant" Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1.[/quote]
Ugh... this is just awful to read. Absolutely terrible to read. [url=http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf]Please do some research.[/url] Don't perpetuate ignorance.[/quote]
Show me a study on the amount of girls who play megaman vs the amount of guys.[/quote]
Wowza, you're stubborn. I'm not going to respond to your posts anymore.[/quote]
If you're not going to respond who is really being stubborn?
obe_Ugh... this is just awful to read. Absolutely terrible to read. Please do some research. Don't perpetuate ignorance.
I personally didn't find that study all too relevant to the discussion at hand, pine_beetle's post seemed to me to be addressing video games as we, "competitive" video game players, define them. That is, not Candy Crush Saga, mobile/phone scrabble games, puzzle and online board games, "social games" (honestly have no clue what these are), online card games, and the dozens of other "video games" that that study references.
This discussion is about Megaman and he referenced TF2 as well. Fact of the matter is females are a tiny population of those populations (unless you have information to the contrary).
EDIT: pine_beetle even specified console/pc games, which, if you look at their "what are people playing" pie charts, are small portions of their data pool.
[quote=obe_]
Ugh... this is just awful to read. Absolutely terrible to read. [url=http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/ESA_EF_2013.pdf]Please do some research.[/url] Don't perpetuate ignorance.[/quote]
I personally didn't find that study all too relevant to the discussion at hand, pine_beetle's post seemed to me to be addressing video games as we, "competitive" video game players, define them. That is, not Candy Crush Saga, mobile/phone scrabble games, puzzle and online board games, "social games" (honestly have no clue what these are), online card games, and the dozens of other "video games" that that study references.
This discussion is about Megaman and he referenced TF2 as well. Fact of the matter is females are a tiny population of those populations (unless you have information to the contrary).
EDIT: pine_beetle even specified console/pc games, which, if you look at their "what are people playing" pie charts, are small portions of their data pool.
pine_beetleIf you're not going to respond who is really being stubborn?
I'm not stubborn; I'm exasperated. I literally just directly contradicted your argument and now you're changing it, and asking me to do something impossible.
Look, this was your original argument: "Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1."
Not: "Girls are outnumbered by guys in the megaman game market by at least 100-1."
That wasn't your argument because it's stupid and niche and doesn't make sense.
I'm not going to fetch you a nonexistent study on the demographic of people who play Mega Man. Fact is, you pulled a number (at least 100-1) out of your ass, and I gave an actual statistic. Now you're backpedaling and asking me to do something impossible. I'm not going to continue arguing under those circumstances.
[quote=pine_beetle]If you're not going to respond who is really being stubborn?[/quote]
I'm not stubborn; I'm exasperated. I literally just directly contradicted your argument and now you're changing it, and asking me to do something impossible.
Look, this was your original argument: "Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1."
Not: "Girls are outnumbered by guys in the megaman game market by at least 100-1."
That wasn't your argument because it's stupid and niche and doesn't make sense.
I'm not going to fetch you a nonexistent study on the demographic of people who play Mega Man. Fact is, you pulled a number (at least 100-1) out of your ass, and I gave an actual statistic. Now you're backpedaling and asking me to do something impossible. I'm not going to continue arguing under those circumstances.
obe_That's understandable. Absolutely understandable. But when blame is pinned on Dina for taking the job as opposed to whoever hired her for putting an unqualified individual on a team of art designers and giving her the position of a PR manager (of which she hasn't done a great job as), then it's easy to see that the misplaced blame is a result of either subconscious misogyny or just plain stupidity.
I can't believe this is how you see it. Sure, the developers/management team/whoever hired her are to blame for making the decision, but that doesn't mean people don't have a right to be angry at her or something. It also doesn't mean that everyone who's mad at her is being "subconsciously misogynistic or just plain stupid". She's doing (by your own admission) an exceptionally shitty job. Since when are we not allowed to be pissed at someone for doing shit work? She's not making a good game. She's not making the game better. Are people not allowed to complain about that?
[quote=obe_]
That's understandable. Absolutely understandable. But when blame is pinned on Dina for taking the job as opposed to whoever hired her for putting an unqualified individual on a team of art designers and giving her the position of a PR manager (of which she hasn't done a great job as), then it's easy to see that the misplaced blame is a result of either subconscious misogyny or just plain stupidity.[/quote]
I can't believe this is how you see it. Sure, the developers/management team/whoever hired her are to blame for making the decision, but that doesn't mean people don't have a right to be angry at her or something. It also doesn't mean that everyone who's mad at her is being "subconsciously misogynistic or just plain stupid". She's doing (by your own admission) an exceptionally shitty job. Since when are we not allowed to be pissed at someone for doing shit work? She's not making a good game. She's not making the game better. Are people not allowed to complain about that?
obe_ is a tyrant who will destroy everything in his path, we can only hope to contain him
requesting lock on thread
http://i.imgur.com/1HLAVIg.jpg
obe_ is a tyrant who will destroy everything in his path, we can only hope to contain him
requesting lock on thread
[img]http://i.imgur.com/1HLAVIg.jpg[/img]
obe_pine_beetleIf you're not going to respond who is really being stubborn?
I'm not stubborn; I'm exasperated. I literally just directly contradicted your argument and now you're changing it, and asking me to do something impossible.
Look, this was your original argument: "Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1."
Not: "Girls are outnumbered by guys in the megaman game market by at least 100-1."
That wasn't your argument because it's stupid and niche and doesn't make sense.
I'm not going to fetch you a nonexistent study on the demographic of people who play Mega Man. Fact is, you pulled a number (at least 100-1) out of your ass, and I gave an actual statistic. Now you're backpedaling and asking me to do something impossible. I'm not going to continue arguing under those circumstances.
You actually just ignored my argument completely and nitpicked a statistic. Sure I made that up but it's not far fetched and you know it isn't. My arguement is that the vast majority of the people playing these types of games are males. If the vast majority of the people interested in playing it are guys, they need to make it for guys. It's a money decision not a gender decision.
[quote=obe_][quote=pine_beetle]If you're not going to respond who is really being stubborn?[/quote]
I'm not stubborn; I'm exasperated. I literally just directly contradicted your argument and now you're changing it, and asking me to do something impossible.
Look, this was your original argument: "Girls are outnumbered by guys in most consol/pc games by at least 100-1."
Not: "Girls are outnumbered by guys in the megaman game market by at least 100-1."
That wasn't your argument because it's stupid and niche and doesn't make sense.
I'm not going to fetch you a nonexistent study on the demographic of people who play Mega Man. Fact is, you pulled a number (at least 100-1) out of your ass, and I gave an actual statistic. Now you're backpedaling and asking me to do something impossible. I'm not going to continue arguing under those circumstances.[/quote]
You actually just ignored my argument completely and nitpicked a statistic. Sure I made that up but it's not far fetched and you know it isn't. My arguement is that the vast majority of the people playing these types of games are males. If the vast majority of the people interested in playing it are guys, they need to make it for guys. It's a money decision not a gender decision.
hanbroloI can't believe this is how you see it. Sure, the developers/management team/whoever hired her are to blame for making the decision, but that doesn't mean people don't have a right to be angry at her or something. It also doesn't mean that everyone who's mad at her is being "subconsciously misogynistic or just plain stupid". She's doing (by your own admission) an exceptionally shitty job. Since when are we not allowed to be pissed at someone for doing shit work? She's not making a good game. She's not making the game better. Are people not allowed to complain about that?
You've completely misunderstood my post. I guess I might not have made it clear enough, but I was specifically referring to people being upset at the principle of her getting the job due to blatant nepotism, and acting like it's her fault. Yes, there's some foul play here. But she's not to blame for taking the job. The person who hired her is to blame for... doing exactly that. Hiring her when she didn't deserve the position.
It's cool to think her art blows and she sucks as a PR, but don't act like it's her fault for getting a free job.
btw she's not making a good game? She's not making anything. She's designing robots. Nothing she does will affect the game's actual mechanics. I guess you're allowed to complain about an art direction that leans towards a better representation of females, but don't act like she's ruining the game or something.
@hivemind: sorry for posting I guess? Apparently I hit some kind of opinion quota and now I'm not allowed to think and post things I think on an internet message board without warranting a thread lock.
[quote=hanbrolo]I can't believe this is how you see it. Sure, the developers/management team/whoever hired her are to blame for making the decision, but that doesn't mean people don't have a right to be angry at her or something. It also doesn't mean that everyone who's mad at her is being "subconsciously misogynistic or just plain stupid". She's doing (by your own admission) an exceptionally shitty job. Since when are we not allowed to be pissed at someone for doing shit work? She's not making a good game. She's not making the game better. Are people not allowed to complain about that?[/quote]
You've completely misunderstood my post. I guess I might not have made it clear enough, but I was specifically referring to people being upset at the principle of her getting the job due to blatant nepotism, and acting like it's her fault. Yes, there's some foul play here. But she's not to blame for taking the job. The person who hired her is to blame for... doing exactly that. Hiring her when she didn't deserve the position.
It's cool to think her art blows and she sucks as a PR, but don't act like it's her fault for getting a free job.
btw she's not making a good game? She's not making anything. She's designing robots. Nothing she does will affect the game's actual mechanics. I guess you're allowed to complain about an art direction that leans towards a better representation of females, but don't act like she's ruining the game or something.
@hivemind: sorry for posting I guess? Apparently I hit some kind of opinion quota and now I'm not allowed to think and post things I think on an internet message board without warranting a thread lock.
pine_beetleMy arguement is that the vast majority of the people playing these types of games are males. If the vast majority of the people interested in playing it are guys, they need to make it for guys.
They shouldn't need to make it for guys. Guys should be okay with playing a video game with cute little female robots killing other females robots just as they should be okay with playing a video with cute male robots killing other male robots. There's literally no reason for people to be up in arms about this particular art direction.
[quote=pine_beetle]My arguement is that the vast majority of the people playing these types of games are males. If the vast majority of the people interested in playing it are guys, they need to make it for guys.[/quote]
They shouldn't need to make it for guys. Guys should be okay with playing a video game with cute little female robots killing other females robots just as they should be okay with playing a video with cute male robots killing other male robots. There's literally no reason for people to be up in arms about this particular art direction.
Yeah that sounds like it's worth the money...
Yeah that sounds like it's worth the money...