it's really funny to play against scouts using it

it's like trying to airshot a soldier who has air accelerate at 1000 and is strafing massively

Except the range on it is just a tad more than melee reach.

Is it me or is the Original a little bit louder?

With the soda popper and the winger you can jump from the top of the train signal posts to spire o_o

Id guess someone has made this point already, BUT

Highlander, 5cp last push, pyro + short circuit...

why is every bad thing in this game concentrated onto engineer

in the next update hes going to punch a kitten and eat babies

You people bitch about anything.

The Short Circuit isn't even any good. Any engie who charges with it dies because all it does is mosquito bites and only within melee range basically. No you can't spam rockets at them, woe is you, thats kind of the point (even before the update), murder them with a shotgun or even your melee weapon, it likely out DMs the sc anyway. Theres no way I'm switching out a wrangler for a sc because I can do way, way more damage using wrangled sentries anyway.

Stop being bad.

EDIT: Before anyway says it, no this does not make sentry nest invincible. You have more rockets then he does metal and the SC eats metal like a fat kid eats cake. One or two soldiers/demos spamming at a sentry nest will still kill it because the engie will waste all his metal using the dumb SC and not be able to repair his gun/disp in time before the next metal cycle of the disp. If anything this weapon HURTS sentry nest holding/camping.

EDIT TWO: And any engie running minis can now only drop one mini and have half the ammo for spamming it, making himself that much worse. He'll knock out maybe 2-3 rockets before hes out of metal so his mini dies AND he can't instantly spawn a new one.

Don't believe his lies.

Also, it's so easy to abuse it while standing near a mini sentry.
First time a weapon pisses me off this much.

no offence but its not a case of being bad its a case of not being able to do anything

if a weapon forces people to use a different weapon to actually be able to deal damage then theres a problem there

its not worth it to play soldier or demo in any environment that allows the short circuit because it can 100% hard counter demos and 100% hard counter shotgunless soldiers

DO people still really complain about no new weapons? Last time I counted TF2 Had 180 different weapons... Are we really complaining about the lack of new weapons here? Their priority should be balancing current broken weapons and not rush to release newer ones that will probably be broken because they try so hard to make them different. TF2 isn't dota, you dont need a new hero every month, it has already a huge learning curve for a FPS.

You get pretty much more than 10 new hats/miscs/items every month and you complain about no new stuff? I couldn't care less about new weapons, I would be happy with 1 new weapon a year or even less if they at least worry about balancing the current ones

You comments seem to assume that the engi is just holding down M1. Assuming you're competent, it takes only 10 metal per rocket, if that. In that time, people can collapse on the spamming player.

Don't forget that this thing is the bane of kritzkrieg.

For the record, if the reason that people don't use the SC is that they either used the wrangler or felt bad for doing so, then the problem lies with a certain slot being overshadowed by one weapon that does two very stupid things. Hmm... where have we seen that before? Oh yeah, equalizer. Why not split the wrangler between shield and increased fire rate?

Take a look at this and tell me that again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbGkTchigps

Poor demoman never saw it coming. I can almost feel the despair

Decided to pick this part and remind you that this was still a thing with the previous SC, that was the point of it. The only reason it's broken is the insane speed of it aka being able to rapid fire.

Anyways, I can almost guarantee that this will be nerfed soon, it's broken in every single instance. Valve won't endanger their moneymakers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyWmL3K6j9w

I just wanted my small buff, Valve, not this.

EDIT AND DISCLAIMER: TO CLARIFY, I don't think the SC is perfect as is, it needs a little nerf, but people claiming this weapon is so broken the game is unplayable is outright silly. Its effective at what it does, but it could use its fire rate cut in about half (with then a sliiiight buff, like 1HP worth to damage).

A similar thing would have happened if it was a pyro who airblasted the stickies and W+M1'd into him. The demo was shit and needed to bail once he saw what was coming, I mean he had a friendly sentry and heavy behind him for crying out loud. This is Team Fortress, not 1v1 Fortress, you'll have to excuse me if I don't shed a tear for the fact demo can't easily out DM/one click kill every class in the game now.

Also, I counter with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PTsHX2p4KE&html5=1

Yes, its STAR, but hes no bad player by any means and this shows the gun isn't that strong. Its basically a much closer range, weaker flame thrower. He even says yes its fun, but overall it kind of still sucks as a damage weapon. Yes it can kill projectiles, but that was the entire point of the SC even before the buff.

As for "if a weapon forces people to use a different weapon to actually be able to deal damage then theres a problem there"...hello, Razorback? Charge 'n' Targe post-buff v. Pyros? There are other weapons in TF2 that do the same thing, but people barely mention them. The only reason its an issue now is because its a counter to two 6s classes, the two classes that are easily kings of the battlefield.

So, demoman should run away from engies now?

also, pyros can still do damage against charge-n-targe. same goes for razorback. the sc disables the demoman for all his weapons except his melee

If he sees an engie running straight at him spamming the SC, yes, much like how a spy needs to run from a pyro spamming fire, or how basically anyone needs to not be in front of a heavy firing, or run from basically anything ubered by any of the medics mediguns. I don't see why thats so strange. TF2 is a game of counters when you actually use the huge amount of weapons available.

I will agree with how it disabled ALL of the demomans arsenal. It sucks, but destroying projectiles is the entire point of the gun, from the moment its first version was added to the game. Otherwise, Engies are struggle snuggled by demos 99 times out of 100. If an engie sees stickies being laid on his nest from around a corner or under a cliff (Looking at you, Badwater first point), what exactly does the engie do? He either does his best to shoot at them with his shotgun (usually failing, and not an option when using some of his other weapons) or try to move the gun quickly....which, usually ends in a demo killing him.

In the end I feel the soldier and scouts buffs are much more important. The scout is a fucking astronaut now, and the soldier is even more of a rampaging monster. The scout stuff I feel like will go the way of the Loose Cannon, people will think its a gimmick at first...but then realize "whoa, this is actually fucking sick" and start looking at it more closely.

Because demo has been the soft counter to engi for ages

and now engi can hard counter the main ways demo does damage with no effort

Also:

Let's just reword that for this situation

He's aware that he's using it like an idiot.
He's being facetious.
That seems pretty obvious to me.

People need to realize I'm playing devils advocate here. The gun obvious needs a nerf, as I said above, but I feel like it has possibilities.

That said, its fucking broken in pubs. Badwater 2nd with 3 Engies on roof? lolgl

Moving on, I'm just trying to picture in my mind how the meeting at valve went

-"So, we really need to change this soda popper thing, people have been saying it's really OP"
-"I got an idea, take the minicrits away and give the scout the ability to fly"
-"That's genius!"

And so, the sodacopter was born.

Were they high as fuck or something when they decided that change? Sure the weapon is not really OP but it's the silliest thing I have ever seen.

Outright nullifying projectiles by holding down m1 while also winning 1v1's seems a little overpowered. I never thought Valve could make anything more horrid than the airblast mechanic, yet I was proven wrong.

-rescue ranger it away
-or put up a wrangler shield, which requires 6 stickies directly under it, and more likely a whole clip, to 1shot
--spam rescue ranger bolts if he keeps detonating stickies individually
--shoot wrangler rocket at the sentry's feet to blow the stickies away if he's close to laying down enough to 1shot (he can only put that many stickies down once before running out of clip)

holding down m1 to hard counter your hard counter, literally just holding down m1 with 0 thought necessary, cannot be justified

besides, the sc was always a gunslinger engineer weapon, i remember dave+ on ts neutering some kritzes on viaduct completely, before it was ever buffed

now imagine it now, the short circuit lasts for 13ish seconds when held down completely and the kritz lasts for 8

imagine playing on the flank in highlander and the only way to kill mini-sentries is by having your scout or engie shooting 17 shotgun shots (100/6) aka almost 3 clips into 1 mini-sentry so it can be rebuilt in 3 seconds

so fucking dumb

With the new popper you can just 5-jump while randomly hitting strafe buttons and watch some poor dude try to airshot you.

Heavy still shreads engies into cute little pieces of swiss.

Problem is, where do you get a Heavy in 6s?

Where do you get an engi in 6s? You might as well swap out your heavy for another one of these bad boys to ensure that both combos stare at each other while scouts fly off into the sunset

Because that's how we ended up with the Quick-Fix debacle at LAN. Running QF Heavy to counter QF Heavy.

A good tactician should never consider a tit-for-tat play as a counter maneuver, since it most likely results in stalemate.

Last defenses get 100% more annoying, and krits is much more negatable (even Uber). If you can't kill someone with uber because they're holding down M1 without even having to time it or aim or anything, there's a serious flaw.

.

Woah how the heck did you do that. I though you would be able to equip 2 of the same hat but ya can't /: