Reconsidering, I think splitting the damage and projectile destruction functions could be pretty good. Maybe 20 ammo for mouse2, with buffed range and maybe slightly buffed damage for mouse1. This is just my thoughts on the community's reaction to the weapon, but if demo had the ScoRes as stock and the SL just came out as an unlock, it would get so much more flak that the SC right now.

Some people seem to not understand that in addition to his other weapons, engineer is capable of building a sentry that continues shooting nearby enemies even while he is not interacting with it, building a teleporter which is able to move players instantly cross-map, and a dispenser which can provide a non-negligible amount of health and ammo for the team.

A class that is able to do this should not, in addition, be able to 1v1 the entire rest of the classes. Also IF a class is able to 1v1 the rest of the cast, it should still be a good fight, ideally the one with the better aim and movement should be able to come out ahead.

this is 1 fucking stupid useless thread

You can either fuck over two players or you can fuck up to nine players. Take your pick and leave it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_pTnrap_mQ

I like it as it is... mainly because it's incredibly fun to use

Downpour, I don't think anyone's denying that valve's trying to increase the effectiveness of engineer in combat; no one has any problem with that part of basket's post, it's just that almost everyone here is in agreement that the way valve attempted to do this is fucking stupid. Engineer was already a brain-dead class in terms of single combat and he's always been a sitting duck away from his sentry gun. The fact that he can't out-dm other 'combat' classes balances the fact he builds a giant aimbot that dms for him. Now, however, he can literally run around spamming m1 like the other shittiest class in the game and win fights. He's still brain-dead in 1v1s (at least apart from shotgun, but the lack of higher movement mechanics like scout makes that still pretty brain dead for me) and not be a sitting duck away from his sentry.

I don't understand how this is a step in the right direction for anyone, actually. Right idea, possibly (and not in my opinion), but the implementation is utter shit. I've played with it and against it and neither of those were any fun. I didn't even have to aim and I was able to kill people with 3 health untouched, it wasn't even satisfying.

that last clip, jesus

fun for you maybe
not so fun for the poor soldier/demo who has to try and melee you as you dance around like an idiot avoiding any damage

Team Fortress 2 Update Released:
- Degreaser
        > Secondary attack sped up greatly
        > Ammunition cost has been lowered to 5 per secondary attack

Isn't the original purpose of the Short Circuit to give the engineer a new way to defend his structures? Yes?

Then:

- Short circuited projectiles only do damage against players but not buildings

If that makes engies cry, then make short circuited projectiles do only half damage to players and 0 damage to buildings.

OR instead of doing all this willy wonka and the dickin around factory kind of shit, we could just put it back to it's previous cooldown, reduce the ammo consumption and call it "Balanced."

Have the people who are defending this new short circuit even played with it?

You can just destroy everything in your path. Even in pubs it's so damn OP that I can't believe they even released this thing. It needs the old fire rate back right now. There's something wrong when you can top score as an engi without ever building a sentry.

how dare valve punish me for using funboats

I think if the weapon just did no damage to players (as in zero) it would be pretty balanced and an interesting sidegrade to the wrangler.

If you want to run around and DM with it, you need to be pretty good to correctly time switching back and forth to the shotgun to actually fight people.

Given how insanely strong the wrangler is, I don't think its unreasonable to make a weapon that will nullify all projectile attacks on a non-wrangled sentry gun for a very small metal cost.

Got kritzed as demo, had an engi W+M1 me, he learned that crit bottles are painful... But he did also waste an entire kritzkreig charge by himself, which is just reidiculous.

The firing rate needs to be trimmed wayy back, maybe to the same rate as a demo can spam pills/stickies?
But not so much as to make it not-spammable in MvM ;)

What about the old stats with a reduced metal comsumption and a +10% fast weapon switch?

holy fuck i scrimmed against this thing and if it doesn't get banned i'm quitting soldier

I remember when I didn't even really know what comp was all about, I watched a highlander match that b4nny was playing in. b4nny put like, 6 stickies onto a wrangled sentry, and that shit still didn't go down. I stopped watching.

I think we can all agree the underlying problem is with the wrangler being too good, obsoleting everything else.
Nerf the wrangler, nerf the SC. Problem solved.

At the moment, I could give two shits about the wrangler. Turns out this shit circuit is even deadlier when the engie has a fuckbuddy soldier or demo right by his side when you're playing a projectile class. I've never bitched about a certain weapon for so long over and over again in a pub and it's only been 4 days. Other than a roaming engie, I've never seen an engie so committed to ONE sentry. Just build another fucking sentry.

Pubbing has never been so horrendous as a soldier/demo.

and yes, I'm mad.

My comment is that the reason they buffed the SC in the first place was to make people use it.
The reason people don't use it is because the wrangler is kinda absurd. Nerf the wrangler, and all three unlocks get used.

exactly, the wrangler was already way too OP, now this as well...

I main demo but I played mostly 6s, when I got back to HL a few months ago I was a bit out of the loop, when I first came across a wrangled sentry and I literally emptied my whole stickybomb launcher and 4 pipes on that thing and it was still standing after that I just felt like quitting right then and there.

Just yesterday I was pubbing with some friends, got a medic with me and used nothing but a short circuit, I mowed everything ahead of me like it was nothing, you dont even need to aim, I was dominating 5 people on a pub server using nothing but a short circuit. Im gonna keep abusing it until it ultimately gets nerfed because its some of the funniest shit I have ever used and its glorious to watch soldiers and demos helplessly trying to escape their death.

No offense meant but shouldn't we do something about this instead of venting on a thread in our tiny unknown forum? Like i'm certain Valve employees aren't going to see this or even care.

edit: this goes for most balances including wrangler

because everyone else on your team can't shoot an engineer?

HE JUST SAID YOUR SCOUTS BL0W

that's such a bullshit excuse
A COMBAT CLASS. CANNOT DAMAGE. A NON COMBAT CLASS.

At least with the Wrangler, people can fight back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE2CJMHTnzM

It's not even fun, this weapon's only purpose is to break MvM and piss people off in pubs now, it's disgusting what they did to this weapon. This thing is leagues more powerful than the Wrangler in it's current state, seeing as with it, you can 100% deny a Demo push, forcing them to push with their Heavy. It's also able to stop a Valve Rocket Launcher if you are into that .

There is no defense for this weapon, it's broken OP. Shouldn't need to worry about it for next season, though, it's already on the ban list, assuming it isn't nerfed.

http://i.imgur.com/2FRC2w9.png

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Gabe+Newell_eb57e5_4688664.gif