i also got banned for asking why sniper was removed

Probably because of people like Max who do it to ruin other people's fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIZBtnFfP7k

If you're going to ban one off-class you might as well ban the rest of the off-classes.

That or make it possible to vote on per-pug to allow/ban offclassing.

"Is it working? Is he winning? Its a legitimate strategy."

Ban it.

i remember when i went sniper to mid with 1 minute left on the clock and KoolB threatened to ban me.

haha
yeah

oops

sniping is the only reason tf2 mix is remotely enjoyable.

NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I find it funny when snipers who can't hit shots are allowed to perma snipe even though they are being useless, but if someone hits their shots it's an instant perma ban.

I think it has been established 1000000 times before that mix has issues...

thanks max, for killing a legitimate offclass in pugs.

This isn't a scrim, when you play pugs you have 0 chemistry built with the other players, there is so much less coordination compared to playing with a team, that running anything will work, including sniper. It's sad that it came to this, because when he played against the few actually good players in tf2mix, I'm sure his team got their shit stomped and he refused to switch to scout(not that he could do anything on the class) for his team.

Sniper makes the game less fun for everyone but the sniper, if it works in scrims then go for it, but only do them in scrims and matches, NOT pugs. The game shouldn't revolve around 1 player.

It was me
and if my "its not 2soldiers,2scouts,1demo,1medic" agenda continues
all offclassing will be banned

"we're trying this out for a week to see how it goes, pm an admin if you disagree" - eldritch, saturday

i guess this works too though

reporting people who have been offclassing excessively is a perfectly fine system :/

don't know anything about that ban evasion business. I would try to talk to cinq/speedy about that.

untrue. we were talking in mumble about sniper being disabled/off classing in general, and you decided to interrupt me countless times with a barrage of questions in an aggressive manner. even after I tried to reason with you in IRC, you said you'd prefer to keep interrupting me and "just go play in pug.na". to top it off, you tried to ban evade immediately after.

believe it or not, we do have rules.

regardless, the disabling of sniper was a trial. it is quite interesting how much dialogue (some positive, some negative) this class restriction made in just 24 hours. we are making our "official" switch to quakenet on february 14th and will roll out a new rule set that all players will be expected to follow.

feel free to PM me if you have any questions/suggestions.

according to redd's post, looks like they don't take kindly to disagreements or questions about it.

edit: if the above post is true then wtf redd u fucker

i got banned from tf2mix once for sniping while doing like 360+ ddm and the full time sniper on the other team was doing nothing and didn't get banned :|

i havent played tf2mix in over 3 months this is my fault guys

i played sniper well in a pug once too

Oh man, can we totally ban the pyro, heavy, engy, spy?

Admins of tf2mix are a joke, they have no one to check their power because cinq just doesn't give a shit it seems. Whenever I bring their abuse to his attention he just shrugs it off or ignores me. It almost seems like they have a quota they have to maintain because I and a few other people lost their admin because we didn't restrict or ban enough people, and every once in a while I'll see random bans they toss around. Crazy shit, not nearly as bad as aristotle's power trip, though.

cinq has been busy moving and switching jobs

thats what im trying to do

a quick guide to the admins of tf2mix:

if you want someone restricted talk to eulogy/eldritch
if you want to be listened to talk to jodd
if you have a problem with the bot talk to speedy
if you want to get ignored talk to speedy too
if you want to get restricted talk to koolb

sounds like pugna all over again

Papasmurf. Marketing genius. Fun police.

http://i.imgur.com/BgF2IP4.jpg

I don't think it's that big of a deal. They're low level pugs and players should be encouraged to learn the game instead of going with something that works. If you're more effective in a pug as a sniper than you are as a scout/soldier than you're an abysmal scout/soldier who should be spending their time practicing instead of sniping. Sniping in pugs is either too easy or too hard. Easy if the other team has no idea how to deal with a sniper (most of the time), or hard because your own team isn't capable of supporting you. I don't understand how anyone can take genuine satisfaction from sniping in pugs.

LOL papa,

As a former long time admin of both pug.na, and tf2mix (and tf2.gather.us... anyone remember that? Anyone? Anyone? Fuck, I'm old.) my stance is the same as its always been. If its legal in competitive play, it should be legal in pugs.

Sometimes you get the occasional troll who wants to run heavy or something the whole time. That's when the admins should come in and ban someone. Off classing is important for breaking stalemates, for holding last without ubers, and other things. Punish the idiots who abuse it, not everyone.

In these two sentences alone you're assuming two things, both wrong. One, that removing sniper from the game doesn't significantly change the way the game is played, and two, that sniper doesn't work and therefore low level players shouldn't learn it. I'll address the first assumption first because the second assumption is made with the first in mind.

Outside of trolling, the sniper class sees legitimate use as a pick class and a playmaker in a real match. In a last hold in any level of play, whether in open or invite, a sniper is usually ran by either team to break the stalemate. In the defending team, it's ran at a disadvantage to pick the enemy med in hopes to snuff their push and have a chance to get the ad yourself to push out. For the attacking team, someone would go sniper to initiate the fight with a pick on the med or really any other class just as an entry pick. More than last holds, it can be used on badlands 2nd point after a lost mid to pick the med and have a chance to hold 2.

So, if the sniper does work, why remove it? People in this thread are treating it as a tool for trolls to ruin pugs through selfish desires for headshots, but that simply isn't true. It's a part of the game that newbies need to learn if they want to progress past #tf2mix.

The real questions are:

When is rescue ranger going to be banned?

Why is weapon still not restricted?

I'm very aware of how effective sniper can be; I play a lot of sniper myself. But cookie cutter classes come first. New player should be focused on understanding them before they experiment with offclasses or unconventional play. You gotta learn the rules before you break them.

It's extremely common for new players to offclass when they're doing poorly, and that's something that should be discouraged. If you're more effective as sniper than scout/soldier, it's only because you're exceptionally bad at the class you were playing, which is all the more reason to be playing it.

The reason sniping is so pointless in pugs is because a sniper's success or failure is entirely dependent on his team's ability to support him, or the enemy teams inability to apply pressure properly. Because this is a pug, the snipers success depends entirely on the teams picked, and sniper has a natural advantage in pugs because teams are inherently uncoordinated.

So what's the benefit of running sniper in pugs? It has no benefit for the person playing sniper because they've completely removed themselves from the positioning/strategy of the game (as little as pugs have). It's no benefit for the people playing against it, because the counter to sniper is to hold close and pressure appropriately, which requires teamwork, which pugs usually lack. And it's no benefit for the teammates of the sniper, because they're not learning to break holds/push normally themselves.

Of course it's fine for defending/attacking last, but it's certainly not the only way to go about doing that. It sucks that it got banned because people were abusing it, but it doesn't need to be a significant part of the game at this low level. In pug.na or higher level inhouses it's fine of course, because most players are aware of how to function around a sniper, and usually don't offclass to it because they're sucking at the class they're supposed to be playing.