I'd say hey it would be cool if you guys could implement like sizzling stats/tf2logs type of thing in the match page for Season 17, but I think it is suggested every off season in the "Things ESEA is looking to do next season" thread, and then they don't do it.

So instead Ill ask, when do rosters unlock so I can add players to my team? Hopefully not like the day before the deadline like last season.

BBV for ESEA prez

Didn't you or tri promise that heal stats were coming sometime over S16? Gonna have to try and find that quote.

Main division?

ded

Now would be a good time to set up a "come play Open" event. It shouldn't come down to a desperate last-ditch effort to get 30ish teams to play Open.

Wasn't the ESEA site supposed to get a redesign?

Nah man. But don't worry about it; Shooter has noted it.

I really really REALLY wanted ESEA to come out on top after the end of this season,
but still nothing has changed; admins still rarely post, stats not changed, servers not added (although this season was smaller so i imagine server issues happened less often), rules that don't really apply to TF2 still being applied to TF2.
The problems that caused ESEA almost dying havent changed at all, they're still there.
GL ESEA, I might play CS in your league, but I'm pretty convinced that even if CEVO isnt as big of a league when compared to you, it definitely cares more and is better for the game.

CEVO was very loud at the beginning - but they're a lot quieter now.

The stats need to be fixed - that's for damn sure.

What's hurting this community more than a below average league situation is the fact that there isn't that much new blood coming in. S15 was a GREAT season - even though the league itself wasn't the main cause. What made that season work was a well-populated Open division. S16 hasn't felt as good because there simply wasn't a surge of new teams to breathe life into the community.

The people are the prize - not some league office. A well-run setup with very few teams is inferior to a mediocre setup with scores of teams involved.

We'll have 140+ at GXL. We'll have thousands of viewers for LAN finals. Our "established" end of the community is wonderfully healthy - but the pressure we're feeling (and one of the biggest reasons ESEA does NOT put a priority on TF2) is due to our future being somewhat dim.

The IM community is just as big as the Open community in ESEA - and that fact is a microcosm of what I'm looking at in "highly competitive" TF2.

Convert the UGC newbies into open teams, and you'll make the BUSINESS side of ESEA take notice in regard to TF2.

You're not wrong in any of your grievances, downpour. I just think you're not painting the full picture.

I would like to see more involvement from ESEA with the community. The business as usual necessary updates are important, but there seems an absence from the representatives of the league we play in within our community. This I believe creates that sort of "utility bill" mentality people have toward the league. It's not surprising when another, cheaper, option appears that peoples interest are peaked.

I firmly believe in ESEA for the general health of our community, but as I said when going for the admin spot many months ago, there needs to be more involvement. Lange over there on the CEVO side isn't just a prominent member of the community and an awesome personable guy, he is one of the major contributors to our community. While these things aren't necessarily always aligned with the CEVO agenda, there is a clear sense that there is someone carrying the CEVO trumpet who is actively working to make our community better.

I'm not saying Killing or Tri need to suddenly become a Lange, but everything coming from ESEA and it's reps this season (a critical season, wouldn't you say?) has been sterile and business as usual. I'd like to see more thinking outside the box in regards to how ESEA seems to be treating attracting more players. Something like what #6 said isn't just a good idea, it's an obvious idea. Lack of these things furthers the mentality that TF2 is being duck-taped to a CS system and milked for it's money.

That is not good. We need ESEA. But we need people to believe in ESEA. Now is the time.

i would like to join the ranks of the most elite pimps.

also someone pay my premium and ill backup for you forever.

ESEA is a business. Businesses often give sterile and innocuous statements as a means to not offend any potential customers. ESEA fees are a utility bill. Running a functional league with a LAN final and three separate skill brackets requires said fees in order to fund the service and provide some form of profit for the company leadership. Converting additional players to ESEA should technically NOT be our responsibility provided that they do exist. It is in ESEA's best interest to create a condition of play that will maximize participation levels. There are a few ways they can do that, including:

1. Eliminate archaic division rules.
2. Advertise open as an "entry league".
3. Take an involvement into the initiatives that exist already for lower level TF2 players.

ESEA only loses money on TF2 because they do not try and actually make money. The first key to maximizing TF2-end revenue would be to have the league recognize that CS:GO and TF2 do NOT behave the same way.

Newbie mixes.

Newbie mixes just introduce people to 6s in general. There's no guarantee they'll go straight to paying for ESEA.

If ESEA wants to keep their TF2 division alive, they need to make actual changes. Update stats, add more central servers, better rules, a better system to decide who goes in what division, more open administration, etc.

You guys are asking for way too much from ESEA. I am not an ESEA bashing or hating person but lets be honest here. ESEA can't even add something as simple as updated match stats for league play, particularly medic and heal stats. How many seasons ago did we ask/beg for this? You guys are asking for so much more that it is insane to think they will comply at all.

This talk about new players and new teams needing to join competitive play. Do you actually see how the newest teams and divisions get talked about by respected players in the community? I have been involved with Team Fortress since the beginning over 15 years ago and seen it all but the negativity from the top players/teams towards the new players is unlike any I have experienced.

There have been many examples but the most recent I seen was the TFTV cast a few weeks ago for the ESEA Open match Arizona vs Goldman. Let me first say that I respect Lange and Seanbud for the things they have done in this community but that cast wasn't good. If I remember correctly, well over 500 ppl were watching and I would bet a lot were low level or potentially new players looking to enjoy a match and maybe learn the game. Instead of casting the action and giving some experienced insight to the viewers, we were basically told "this is ok for open level players" for the entire match.
So many failed pushes or mistakes were more laughed at than anything else. To me, most of the cast came off as overly negative and condescending to the players involved. In contrast, when invite players fail in the same situations, the opposing players typically get praised for making such "great plays". Its a shame the same praise for simple "open" players was not returned. I am not blaming Sean and Lange for the overall problem, this was just an example. I understand these guys cast on their free time and I appreciate all the effort and everything they do.

As I said, this was just a single example but this type of thing happens so often from the veteran high level players that I would expect most brand new players to not even want to spend the time to improve and get in this community.

while i dont agree with the second part of ur argument because theres a difference between letting b4nny force u into a mistake versus letting people ive never heard of do the same

i think casts that are presented as community or publicized casts for pivotal matches should be mostly just playbyplay and minimal critical analysis, especially when the people ur casting have been playing for like ten+ fewer seasons than u have

Why should it matter what the person's name is who forced your mistake? Banny is playing the same class any other demoman is playing with the same health and items. If a demo screws you, it doesn't matter what his name is.

because michael jordan dunks on everybody

muggsy bogues on the other hand

idk man its pretty retarded to not identify playstyles by player after a certain point

most people do the same thing a lot so u take notice

if an open demo is constantly fucking u the same way banny is hes not an open demo

i cant believe im arguing this

ur saying that if u were a pro baseball player and randy johnson struck u out and then a girl from single a did the same thing ud feel the same about both situations?

idk man this is a toughie

I think he means when an open player pulls off good plays against another open team they're kind of laughed at instead of praised w/e. Not that some magical demo in open can outplay banny or something.

I don't understand what any of this has anything to do with my OP. I was never comparing open players to invite players in terms of skill. Infact, I wasn't talking about the actual players at all, I was talking about the cast so I still don't understand your point. Basically Sky said everything already.

sup?

To be fair the example you used was seanbud and lange, who together like to laugh and you know, joke around..

and what im saying is ur not getting the fucking homour of it

which blows my mind

you laugh when a no-name open player gets away with something ridiculous because it doesnt happen all the time

if it happened all the time he wouldnt be a no-name open player

when somebody who constantly gets a lot of amazing kills gets a 4k u go "well thats what happens because they are good player"

better players laugh when inferior ones get away with random shit that only works at an open level

im sorry this is a hard concept for you

also anybody who gets offended by lange and seanbud's g rated humor should really think about what gets them upset and why

4. actually do the shit you told us you'd do like 5 seasons ago

I don't even think that you watched the cast. I thought it was very tasteful and well done.

Anyways, we always have this laundry list of things we want from ESEA but I think the season went well nonetheless. Match scheduling was smooth. STVs were not laggy. Stats worked as intended. Everything was very well run, props to Killing and Tri. Probably the worst thing that happened was the lack of teams in Open / all of the forfeit wins but I attribute that to CEVO's new beginning. S16 was still very well run from an administrative point of view.

While the forfeit shenanigans may partially be true during the regular season, I don't think the 11 (read: eleven) forfeits in Open playoffs had anything to do with CEVO. That's pathetic lol.

ok but when you've been asking something for quite literally years and every couple of months it's "noted" or it's "being worked on", you get fed up with this shit.

When has ESEA ever changed anything about their model or approach to TF2? I don't know why people still expect something different. It's been 16 seasons of the same shit.

Pretty sure a lot of the forfeits in Open playoffs were from teams that didn't want to repay their premium to get knocked out quickly after, sparing a few to being flat out dead and client problems.