make the taller, two toned wall either have a ramp itself or able to be jumped up in two jumps. That looks like it would be really awkward to back up to if you have to give up lobby.

hmm, good point. maybe do away with the barrels/crate on the brick wall next to it? maybe extend the two toned wall or carve a hole in the corner of the big wall bordering the two ledges (the wall the computer modules are up against)?

Possibly push back the wall the computer modules are up against, do away with the crates (theres already so many places to hide in the transition of second to last) and put a jump onto the floor outside spawn to make sure that the defending team does still have high-ground and attackers cant just walk into people and get frags. Reason for this, from my expeirence it feels like you cant really spam, by the tine their in, their jn and leaves very little room for error imo

terrain on this map is so bad and illogical

terrain, as in actual displacement ground, or as in height difference between areas i.e. lobby/last, lighthouse/ground, mid/cafe, etc)?

see the staircases/discussion about the upper exit from last spawn

specification would help, and this issue of awkward differences in height variation is something I'd like to address but when i get really vague negative feedback it doesn't help much other than telling me "well someone thinks it's bad, probably had a bad experience on the map due to the affected area, but I have no way of picking out what caused that so I don't know how to fix the problem."

was it a bad match? was it a hard loss? were you unfamiliar with the map? could it have something to do with the fact that nobody scrims sunshine and therefore nobody has developed hard strategies for the map yet? is a legitimate issue with the map that has plagued multiple people?

maybe while playing the map, you found some specific thing about it consistently caused you or your team to perform bad/get tripped up (i.e. "terrain"), and this is the cause? if so, where, why, and how? did it block movement, was it hard to navigate around, did it give an unfair height advantage to the enemy team? is it inherently connected to the design of a certain point (i.e. the lighthouse height advantage on 2nd) and therefore the entire point layout is at fault?

these are the types of questions people with criticism and negative feedback need to answer for me. I'm all for tearing my map apart to the ground, but I can't be present at every match, I can't watch every VOD, I can't see every cast made on the map. Some of the feedback needs to be here, written and explained so I don't have to stare at some vague comment about "terrain" when I really don't know what that means. If anyone likes doing paint-overs of screenshots to show exactly what should be changed, I love those.

this thread is the most efficient way of providing feedback because I don't search out other threads elsewhere for the map and I'm not always on Steam to converse about it. I always check this thread and I keep up to date with every issue and bug presented here, so people who post here should try to provide as much detail as possible.

tl;dr: tear my map apart and tell me everything you hate about it; but provide reasoning and explanation for where, why, and how the particular element of the map is bad so I can work my best to fix it

if that includes "the entire mid point is bad, and this is why" then so be it, just try to provide potential solutions/remedies for it. if THAT includes "rebuild the whole point, but with *this* element instead", then tell me! I'm cool with it.

loved the last changes
for the 2nd point it would be nice if the non-cafe flank was easier to push,perhaps make it less of an uphill battle / less difficult to fight soldier on top of the wood overhead
for mid the bell tower was one of the most obnoxious places to fight on because of the slanted platforms that you stand on either side and [ ] shape inside
I also felt like as soldier I had a lot of power when I was on top of the cafe roof, I could shoot about the entire mid and safely protect my team while doing so
not really sure what to do about that other than make the rooves unstandable but that seems like a bad solution

I'm sure you've heard this before, because this seems to be a rather common opinion, but the map is just very difficult to see on. There is too many busy textures in front of other busy textures. I found it really difficult to separate players from the background sometimes. Makes it unfun to aim.

Yeahhhh I know what you mean. Those brick and stone wall textures are the main culprit I think. I'm working on trying to swap them out for similarly colored textures that have less visual business, but it's tricky without messing up the color balance of the map too much. I think RC5 has a couple of those textures swapped, and RC6 should have even more exchanged for less noisy nextures.

can I get anyone else to comment on this? In particular, the cafe rooves on mid? It's something I've been considering changing for awhile but I don't know how many people think it's a necessary change.

Any ideas on what I should change instead of the rooves if people don't like that idea? I definitely think the safety + height advantage provided by the rooves is a little too much, but I need multiple opinions before I can change something that hundreds of people will play on.

I can't really comment about the cafe roofs on mid, but I think one of the problems with the valley flank is the fact that using it is just very difficult. The middle of the flanks dips down, so it doesn't matter whether you are trying to push into second with it or push into mid with it, because you are putting yourself at a major height advantage . I understand the importance of height variation on a map, but given that the flank already has such nice walls for soldiers to stand, putting at such a major height disadvantage seems a bit cruel.

I realize that that flank should be a bit more difficult to use pushing second, given that it's the closest route to lobby and getting behind, as well as giving protection from lighthouse combo spam, but I don't think it needs to be quite as difficult as it is now.

euro server currently running rc5 if you wanna fuck around and pub on it: (not many people rn but if you and ur friends come on itll be better. itll be on for awhile so w/e do whatever until it changes)

91.121.155.109:27015

This, so much this. Phi and I are trying to do something for this community. Say the map's shit, call us idiots who can't map, but if you want to see things get better and have a better experience in TF2 tell us what you don't like, what's seriously wrong, or supply a few ideas.

The high ground on mid feels really weird for soldier, every time i jump up it just feels too small to fight and results in either one of us strafing off or 2 sollys juggling each other while shooting straight down till someone dies first.

also can you please get the map cleaner for splash damage? the little openings on either side of choke for example. just make the wall a fucking wall so i can splash it, even if it looks good it serves no purpose really.

I did a brief critique of the map on my stream, figured you might be interested to watch it, heres a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsO2N1ddUX4

Been impressed with the map so far, hope you keep making improvements. Good luck!

@itsnechum: Try this:
http://teamfortress.tv/thread/20219/detail-sprite-commands

thank you for the critique, b4nny! extraordinarily insightful stuff. confirmed a lot of thoughts i've been having and a lot of opinions expressed towards the map.

as it is right now, last is currently in the process of being reworked according to your (and others') feedback.

heavy WIP screenshot, for anyone, definitely comment on what looks better and what looks worse based upon it (the pole is hidden for a better viewing angle)

right now, the spawn has been centered behind the point, the area to the left in the picture has been smoothed out, the wall that once was a spawn exit has been opened up and a room cleared out. the high ground in front of lobby is now a straight path all the way back, with various props to hop on top of/maneuver around/block sightlines from shutter. unsure about the orientation of the new big staircase on the left.

feedback is welcome. and as I said, it's WIP

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/sunshine/Screenshot%202015-03-03%2021.12.00.png

I've found a gamebreaking bug on this map, you should really fix it as quick as you can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT0g4gcDZgU

That's a video of it but basically in that spot I can escape plan taunt without taking any dmg myself because the explosion is above the ramp, meaning I can easily get 4ks or even more if the enemy team doesn't know about it.

edit: to clarify this is below the ramp on the left on last.

cool, thanks for posting this! it's a quick fix, i'll just clip that little thing that you stand on to do it

It's a shitty spot so I don't think anyone will use it anyways :p Mostly because they can see your head stick out of the ramp. I tried to get a kill that way in a scrim today but I just died myself and probably lost my team the round.

that bug is also known to be on gullywash and snakewater

if you think its a shitty spot, just wait until you'll try it during an official and almost lose your team the map cus it's against the rules

it's much better she'll fix it now rather than people doing stupid things later

To be fair that spot is a lot better. You see much less of the hat and people actually hold right there. And of course it should be fixed, especially if it's an easy fix.

gz, your map is in the mappool of ETF2L Highlander Season 8

maybe you can get rc6 out before it starts so the stupid spot is fixed :D

Any remaining bits of feedback before rc6 is released? I plan to make this a sustainable version so I need all I can get.

Also what's the nearest deadline? When is this map being played in ETF2L? I need to know so I can have some sort of calendar as to when rc6 needs to be out. Any dates are REALLY helpful. Thanks!

Sunshine week in ETF2L starts April 26th

cp_sunshine_rc6 will be out sometime in the next two weeks max, then. Pinky promise.

If you're going to be making big changes you should probably release a test build or be prepared to do some quick updates in case something is majorly wrong.

Yeah I plan to do something like that. If there's an issue or something doesn't play well at all I'll be sure to release a b6a or b6b or something... possibly do some private testing of rc6 before it is officially released to attempt to make sure it's okay.

Good map

http://gyazo.com/3e38adcfbd639d06bc1c16829eeb72c9 Phi, how would you feel about extending the balcony to give scouts a little more options at mid to get onto the enemies tetris