Hey guys,
I figured I'd make this thread to keep you all up to date on our progress in rewriting Saloon.
For those not in the know, when Sneeza and I acquired Saloon we opted to completely rewrite it in PHP from its current Python implementation. We decided to do this for a few reasons; chiefly, we have very little Python experience, but it's also easier to maintain a project you've built from the ground up.
This also gives us the chance to iterate and improve on certain aspects of Saloon: mainly, the way matches and items are handled. Match verification will be instant (once the scores are confirmed; there could still be delays in that area), and you will be able to easily re-bet won items. You will also deposit items before you bet, so that it's easier to bet on the fly and there's no confusion as to whether or not your bet went through.
The main design of the site will not change.
Currently, we're laying the groundwork. Preview image here: http://outpost.gg/sn/q18k4z.png
Hey guys,
I figured I'd make this thread to keep you all up to date on our progress in rewriting Saloon.
For those not in the know, when Sneeza and I acquired Saloon we opted to completely rewrite it in PHP from its current Python implementation. We decided to do this for a few reasons; chiefly, we have very little Python experience, but it's also easier to maintain a project you've built from the ground up.
This also gives us the chance to iterate and improve on certain aspects of Saloon: mainly, the way matches and items are handled. Match verification will be instant (once the scores are confirmed; there could still be delays in that area), and you will be able to easily re-bet won items. You will also deposit items [b]before[/b] you bet, so that it's easier to bet on the fly and there's no confusion as to whether or not your bet went through.
The main design of the site will not change.
Currently, we're laying the groundwork. Preview image here: http://outpost.gg/sn/q18k4z.png
The only thing I would like to have improved is to have the "pending time" decreased. A lot of times it takes 24 hours or so to claim your items. Other than that, the screenshot looks promising. Best of luck to ya.
The only thing I would like to have improved is to have the "pending time" decreased. A lot of times it takes 24 hours or so to claim your items. Other than that, the screenshot looks promising. Best of luck to ya.
Obligatory
That being said, thanks for all you're doing for the community, and good luck.
[url=http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html]Obligatory[/url]
That being said, thanks for all you're doing for the community, and good luck.
that's a really fascinating article
that's a really fascinating article
I like deposit and the fact you're doing the rewrite (as it means I'll be able to tell angry betters there's nothing I can do) though I really don't like PHP :P
Wish I had enough bot space to implement deposit myself from the beginning.
I'm only worried about instant match verification if it means any of the 2:
a) You have to trade with few bots to take your items out
b) You get your prize from items from just one bot's inventory
If you somehow get bots to move items between themselves during that short time then it's straight improvement.
luxorThe only thing I would like to have improved is to have the "pending time" decreased. A lot of times it takes 24 hours or so to claim your items. Other than that, the screenshot looks promising. Best of luck to ya.
The pending time is not really related to codebase as much as it's related to the need for human to confirm the scores as ESEA suffers from schizophrenia so most of the time you have to see the game/check the logs/check comments or ask around to know if score is real.
I like deposit and the fact you're doing the rewrite (as it means I'll be able to tell angry betters there's nothing I can do) though I really don't like [b]PHP[/b] :P
Wish I had enough bot space to implement deposit myself from the beginning.
I'm only worried about instant match verification if it means any of the 2:
a) You have to trade with few bots to take your items out
b) You get your prize from items from just one bot's inventory
If you somehow get bots to move items between themselves during that short time then it's straight improvement.
[quote=luxor]The only thing I would like to have improved is to have the "pending time" decreased. A lot of times it takes 24 hours or so to claim your items. Other than that, the screenshot looks promising. Best of luck to ya.[/quote]
The pending time is not really related to codebase as much as it's related to the need for human to confirm the scores as ESEA suffers from schizophrenia so most of the time you have to see the game/check the logs/check comments or ask around to know if score is real.
crossfire1 key minimum deposit?
A minimum deposit wouldn't fit everyone's budget, and I personally enjoyed betting a 10 ref paint on underdogs to cash in a few hats worth + my paint back
[quote=crossfire]1 key minimum deposit?[/quote]
A minimum deposit wouldn't fit everyone's budget, and I personally enjoyed betting a 10 ref paint on underdogs to cash in a few hats worth + my paint back
MasterKuniObligatory
That being said, thanks for all you're doing for the community, and good luck.
A project like saloon.tf doesn't have nearly the same constraints as Netscape or Word or Borland. Most of the points made in that article are aimed at commercial, established, complex applications operating in competitive markets. Saloon.tf is neither of those (at least not on the same scale).
The only risk Geel is facing is the saloon rewrite failing to gain traction in its infancy as features are added and bugs are being fixed. Except the only alternative would be sticking with the old saloon, which he aquired. Only to rewrite it completely, exactly because he was interested in keeping the branding and user base. The old platform, he can pull the plug on whenever he wants.
Meanwhile the benefits of having all his websites built with similar technologies and design are obvious. That article seems to assume that a rewrite can only happen because some guys think the existing codebase is shit. Geel not being familiar with the python stack is a perfectly valid reason.
[quote=MasterKuni][url=http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html]Obligatory[/url]
That being said, thanks for all you're doing for the community, and good luck.[/quote]
A project like saloon.tf doesn't have nearly the same constraints as Netscape or Word or Borland. Most of the points made in that article are aimed at commercial, established, complex applications operating in competitive markets. Saloon.tf is neither of those (at least not on the same scale).
The only risk Geel is facing is the saloon rewrite failing to gain traction in its infancy as features are added and bugs are being fixed. Except the only alternative would be sticking with the old saloon, which he aquired. Only to rewrite it completely, exactly because he was interested in keeping the branding and user base. The old platform, he can pull the plug on whenever he wants.
Meanwhile the benefits of having all his websites built with similar technologies and design are obvious. That article seems to assume that a rewrite can only happen because some guys think the existing codebase is shit. Geel not being familiar with the python stack is a perfectly valid reason.
You're going the wrong way Geel xD, still...it makes sense to have it in a language you know
You're going the wrong way Geel xD, still...it makes sense to have it in a language you know
will everyone with special status on saloon keep it?
will everyone with special status on saloon keep it?
Why would you add a deposit system (with a minimum deposit requirement)?
P.S:
Show Content
Verify LEGO vs Dogs already.
Why would you add a deposit system (with a minimum deposit requirement)?
P.S: [spoiler]Verify LEGO vs Dogs already.[/spoiler]
rowrowcrossfire1 key minimum deposit?
A minimum deposit wouldn't fit everyone's budget, and I personally enjoyed betting a 10 ref paint on underdogs to cash in a few hats worth + my paint back
I'd just like to point out that this stuff is still in re-design stages and the deposit system is the same as SweetStakes and hasn't been updated yet. We'll likely have a lower deposit limit for the exact reason that you mentioned. We want it to be accessible to all, but we need to find a way to limit bot usage so that we don't run out of capacity.
[quote=rowrow][quote=crossfire]1 key minimum deposit?[/quote]
A minimum deposit wouldn't fit everyone's budget, and I personally enjoyed betting a 10 ref paint on underdogs to cash in a few hats worth + my paint back[/quote]
I'd just like to point out that this stuff is still in re-design stages and the deposit system is the same as SweetStakes and hasn't been updated yet. We'll likely have a lower deposit limit for the exact reason that you mentioned. We want it to be accessible to all, but we need to find a way to limit bot usage so that we don't run out of capacity.
Obligatory: http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
The section most important to me is security: PHP has always been "insecure-by-default", and that's very scary for a website specifically intended for transferring a lot of currency. Of course, you can put in the time to make the PHP secure, but I'm going to feel less safe betting on a site rewritten in PHP.
Above all, though, please open-source it.
Obligatory: http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
The section most important to me is security: PHP has always been "insecure-by-default", and that's very scary for a website specifically intended for transferring a lot of currency. Of course, you [i]can[/i] put in the time to make the PHP secure, but I'm going to feel less safe betting on a site rewritten in PHP.
Above all, though, please open-source it.
We have a lot of experience writing high-traffic highly-scrutinized websites in PHP.
We have a lot of experience writing high-traffic highly-scrutinized websites in PHP.
I'd like to confirm something very important.
Due to to the nature of the rewrite along with security reasons, we will not be continuing to use the old Saloon.tf bots. What this means is that there will have to be a transitional period:
-Initially, we will have "beta.saloon.tf" and the current saloon.tf. In this initial stage, new matches will only be placed on beta.saloon.tf, and saloon.tf will only be available for withdrawing your items.
-After some time, we will switch saloon.tf to be old.saloon.tf, and beta.saloon.tf will become the official saloon.tf. Any unwithdrawn items will be available for withdrawing on old.saloon.tf after this period.
We will keep old.saloon.tf around for as long as possible, but at some point it too will have to be retired. We will make it abundantly clear when all of these periods are and what you need to do to withdraw items.
This will not happen for a while. At present, https://saloon.tf as it is is still the premier place to bet on TF2 matches. It will be incredibly clear when this transitional period has begun; there is absolutely no risk associated with continuing to use saloon.tf as it is now
I'd like to confirm something very important.
Due to to the nature of the rewrite along with security reasons, we will [b]not[/b] be continuing to use the old Saloon.tf bots. What this means is that there will have to be a transitional period:
-Initially, we will have "beta.saloon.tf" and the current saloon.tf. In this initial stage, new matches will only be placed on beta.saloon.tf, and saloon.tf will only be available for withdrawing your items.
-After some time, we will switch saloon.tf to be old.saloon.tf, and beta.saloon.tf will become the official saloon.tf. Any unwithdrawn items will be available for withdrawing on old.saloon.tf after this period.
We will keep old.saloon.tf around for as long as possible, but at some point it too will have to be retired. We will make it abundantly clear when all of these periods are and what you need to do to withdraw items.
[b]This will not happen for a while. At present, https://saloon.tf as it is is still the premier place to bet on TF2 matches. It will be incredibly clear when this transitional period has begun; there is absolutely no risk associated with continuing to use saloon.tf as it is now[/b]
LenseObligatory: http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
The section most important to me is security: PHP has always been "insecure-by-default", and that's very scary for a website specifically intended for transferring a lot of currency. Of course, you can put in the time to make the PHP secure, but I'm going to feel less safe betting on a site rewritten in PHP.
Above all, though, please open-source it.
I don't think open sourcing it would be the right decision for new owners to make. It's up to them of course, but I think not sharing all the methods for finding alts and other stuff that some people would like to go around is worth not giving a look into the code for all the good people :) Also it's not really a good practice when money is involved and not many people supervise code. Not that it's going to have any security flaws at all, it's probably too simple for that, but better safe than sorry.
[quote=Lense]Obligatory: http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
The section most important to me is security: PHP has always been "insecure-by-default", and that's very scary for a website specifically intended for transferring a lot of currency. Of course, you [i]can[/i] put in the time to make the PHP secure, but I'm going to feel less safe betting on a site rewritten in PHP.
Above all, though, please open-source it.[/quote]
I don't think open sourcing it would be the right decision for new owners to make. It's up to them of course, but I think not sharing all the methods for finding alts and other stuff that some people would like to go around is worth not giving a look into the code for all the good people :) Also it's not really a good practice when money is involved and not many people supervise code. Not that it's going to have any security flaws at all, it's probably too simple for that, but better safe than sorry.
http://outpost.gg/sn/868sv1.png
I love that the future of Saloon is us slamming LEGO again and again.
I love that the future of Saloon is us slamming LEGO again and again.
BumFreezewill everyone with special status on saloon keep it?
We'll make sure that nobody loses their status.
[quote=BumFreeze]will everyone with special status on saloon keep it?[/quote]
We'll make sure that nobody loses their status.
im assuming you guys are reworking the other UI elements to match that nice green deposit button. its a great button but nothing really fits with it (imo)
im assuming you guys are reworking the other UI elements to match that nice green deposit button. its a great button but nothing really fits with it (imo)
fatswimdudeim assuming you guys are reworking the other UI elements to match that nice green deposit button. its a great button but nothing really fits with it (imo)
We'll probably just rework the button itself, it's just copied from Sweetstakes atm
[quote=fatswimdude]im assuming you guys are reworking the other UI elements to match that nice green deposit button. its a great button but nothing really fits with it (imo)[/quote]
We'll probably just rework the button itself, it's just copied from Sweetstakes atm
Geel, i am having an odd issue on Saloon. I have taken all my winnings of every bet i have ever done. But it still keeps telling me i have to collect items for 1 bet.
Geel, i am having an odd issue on Saloon. I have taken all my winnings of every bet i have ever done. But it still keeps telling me i have to collect items for 1 bet.
The basic functionality of the site -- including depositing items, placing bets, and verifying/ending matches is complete. Sneeza is now working on the admin panel for the staff to add matches, leagues, etc.
The basic functionality of the site -- including depositing items, placing bets, and verifying/ending matches is complete. Sneeza is now working on the admin panel for the staff to add matches, leagues, etc.
We've begun the process of hooking the bots up and populating the site with Leagues, Teams, and matches.
We've begun the process of hooking the bots up and populating the site with Leagues, Teams, and matches.
https://feen.us/rh12xc.png
Almost ready for the public beta
https://feen.us/rh12xc.png
Almost ready for the public beta