I don't understand how people can be this superficial about politics. It's like you really think there's nothing more to deporting people than just telling them to go away.

Deporting all the 11+ million illegal immigrants in the US would cost hundreds of billions of dollars, have an effect on the economy, and require an enormous amount of effort. I'm sure there are further repercussions as well, but I don't know enough about how you would approach that kind of task.

I don't understand how you can look at politics, see that nobody is deporting people en masse, and not reflect on why that might be.

In addition your comment about radical islam is likewise lacking any realism - even if it was a good idea to deny any Muslims entry to the US (which is a huge kneejerk reaction that would have little effect imo but I do accept that radical islam is a real problem) - EVEN IF it was a good idea then how on earth are you gonna enforce that? How do you tell if someone is a Muslim? Are you just gonna deny people from Islamic countries? Would you deport converts to Islam as they're "new muslims". I mean it's totally ridiculous, it's not even close to being a realistic argument and only seems like a good idea to those who apply very little thought to any policy.

actually the lack of capital makes it tougher for immigrants to rise to a "6 firgure salary", thats just kinda basic economics. example, an american father leaves his son the family house, now the son does not have to worry about paying rent or w/e while he goes to school.if a family is fresh off the boat they dont have that sort of foundation to work off of

in response to post 395

Basically here is the comic book version of immigration policy and its problems for our European friends who may be confused or not understand why it's such a huge issue in the US in general.

There are approximately 11 million people living inside the US illegally - that is they never had formal permission to enter. Although the generalization is that most of these people come from South and Central America that is not always the case, for example it's thought that ~10% of illegal immigrants in the US actually come from Asia for example. But politically speaking when somebody suggests "just deport them all" as a solution to the immigration question it fails to take into account several US specific issues, and history itself in this case.

As a caveat before I go any further, I should point out that *much* of the border region's economy absolutely depends on immigrant labor in order to function.

Now, for a bit of history. After WW2 there was a labor crunch as predominately young male persons returned to the labor force (which had been supplemented by women and illegal immigrants in large numbers), the Mexican government itself also protested at the rate that Mexican workers were being allowed into the US. Thus so-called "Operation Wetback" was born, in cooperation with the Mexican government, which intended to deport illegal immigrants from the US en masse. The program was ultimately a failure after operating for around 10 years. The number of border patrol agents was doubled and the total number of persons deported in the first five years was around 1 million with an estimated additional 500,000 fleeing for fear of arrest (either to Mexico or other places where they weren't monitored as closely at that time). Now, of all of the persons deported it's thought that around 20% of them were repeat deportees (that is they'd already been caught and deported once or more in the past). The program itself was also rife with abuse with over 11,000 formal complaints being lodged, a mutiny aboard one of the deportation ships (which was stuffed well over capacity) and the deaths of 88 deportees from exposure.

Sadly, the President before Eisenhower (who carried out this policy) Truman had suggested something that would've actually "fixed" the problem - a complete amnesty for illegal immigration across the Southern Border - but strict enforcement of pay and working condition requirements on those who hire illegal immigrant labor. Because ultimately the reason so many people cross the border is because there is plenty of work for them - which pays far higher than work in their native countries - but legal citizens won't do the work as the working conditions and/or pay are criminally poor. If Illegal immigrants didn't find a ready supply of income (due to their jobs being taken by legal workers) it would follow that they would be far less likely to come - in fact you can prove that empirically by looking at nations with large unemployment issues and their relative rates of illegal immigration. Such a plan would also be significantly cheaper to enforce and enact than rounding up 11 million people and sending them back to where ever it is they claim to have come from - not to mention being beneficial for basically all parties involved except those business types who rely on paying illegal immigrants nothing for their work.

First of all he wasn't endorsed by the KKK party, he was "endorsed" (if u can even call it that) by David duke ( Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XUvSzaxMic ) and he did renounce him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq2LBsYizMQ

http://i.imgur.com/krHVhac.jpg

Yeah you're right I don't know enough about deporting illegal immigrants and shouldn't have commented on it. My bad, I didn't properly think before posting that. I do think that people entering the country illegally is a problem so maybe it's better to build the wall and as trump claims "make Mexico pay for it" then get those who are in the country work permits and eventually give them permanent residency. If the wall is built then it will allow for much better immigration control for years to come and save America a lot of money (if Mexico pays for it). Even if Mexico don't pay, it might be worth the investment although I can't really say since I don't know enough about it and what impact the cost will have.

Also with the Muslims I never said anything about actually putting the ban on them. I literally just said " I think it's understandable why you would want a temporary ban on them.". I have no idea how you would actually go about banning them and I never said anything about actually doing it.

.

Why? General consensus is that immigration has a positive effect on the economy. For instance: http://business.time.com/2013/01/30/the-economics-of-immigration-who-wins-who-loses-and-why/

why are illegal immigrants bad again?

people's fears of them taking jobs.

is that an actual problem? i'm pretty sure they just take the shitty jobs white people won't do

lol

i wish i could mow grass for 3$ an hour but those fucking mexicans always get there first

its not even a problem at all. they actually can raise wages from what i understand.
but fears are what people are preying on.

Well the main net benefits from *any* immigration (be it legal or illegal) are:

Regardless of wages, you now have people making income who will want to buy things with that income - those things have to be made (or done in the case of services) or at the very least handled and sold by somebody somewhere.

In general, most illegal immigrants pay *some* taxes - in the form of at the very least sales and excise taxes, and in some cases a full regular tax load if they are using a fake identity/Social security number so the "tax drain" that's often peddled by anti-immigrant politicians is at least partially fantasy.

The net negative of course is that every added person to the labor market creates downward pressure on wages until their demand can correct the demand for goods/services.

But on the whole the US needs more working age people just in general because a huge portion of our population is about to retire so it's NBD lol.

The big difference to me is between legal immigration and illegal. I would suppose that people who enter legally are much less likely to cause any trouble or crime. Obviously immigration is good for the economy but it should be done in a controlled way. I personally think illegal immigration is bad but even if you don't think illegal immigration is a bad thing they are breaking the law and no man is above the law.

Also only reason I brought up the wall was because it seemed like a good solution to the illegal immigration problem America claim to have. Like I said though I don't know much about walls and people are saying it's not possible. .

it's not a good solution. it will end up costing us more money than what we're losing.

ok so i'm chinese, second generation immigrant, my parents were first gen and came straight from china literally without anything other than an education and some basic grasp of english

my parents didn't have anything at all to work off of, but they were able to find six-digit salaries within like 5 years in IT. even if you assume that they are extreme outliers and that usual immigrants need time to stabilize, what about the african american community? without trying to address the stereotype there is still a huge majority of african americans not even trying to educate themselves or improve their own situation through finding a stable career. they have a home, they have affirmative action, what is stopping them?

but seriously get we get the fuck rid of affirmative action and its racist bullshit already it's in good intention but it's so retarded

Holy shit fade nailed it both of my parents are civil litigation lawyers and you wouldn't believe the amount of plaintiffs she gets that are single black woman around 20 without finishing college that already have kids and no husband. Like fade said it isn't a lack of opportunities it is a lack of effort. Fade's parents came here with nothing handed to them and now they're successful americans because of their hard work. The government shouldn't give you handouts you should work for your own good.

If you think affirmative action is racist you should do some critical reading on police brutality, the war on drugs, redlining, voter ID laws, and the disproportionate effects the recession had on African Americans. Systematic racism is still quite alive and thriving and pretending it doesn't exist is not a very helpful way to combat it.

I'll just leave these here

http://www.citylab.com/housing/2013/11/paradox-diverse-communities/7614/
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/201/4/282.abstract?etoc
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2007.00176.x/abstract;jsessionid=279C92A7EB0946BBA63D62937FC832A9.f04t03
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10640-012-9619-6
http://curis.ku.dk/ws/files/130251172/Dinesen_S_nderskov_Ethnic_Diversity_and_Social_Trust_Forthcoming_ASR.pdf
https://www.msu.edu/~zpneal/publications/neal-diversitysoc.pdf
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape
http://therightstuff.biz/2015/09/21/only-trump/
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/10/16/latino-voters-and-the-2014-midterm-elections/
http://archive.is/1Jmn1

I would be more inclined to vote for Mr Trump than senator Clinton, because he is less pro-isreal than she is, would be less likely to start a war, and is less corporatist. I also favor a harder stance of fixing immigration, although how Marxist outlines it is the superior method to building a damn wall.

If you have been watching the news lately you know that Donald Trump disavowed the endorsement of racist David Duke. Unless you are watching CNN, in which case, their version of the news is that he didn’t do enough disavowing that one time.

If you’re a racist, you have a reason to like Trump because of CNN’s intentional misreporting and the fact that Trump didn’t do enough disavowing that one time. If you’re not a racist, you can like Trump because he disavowed racists several times, in writing and on video.

That’s strategic ambiguity.

If you oppose war, you might like Trump because he opposed the Iraq war and has a history of being reluctant to commit U.S. forces overseas. But if you think the U.S. should keep bombing other countries, Trump might be your candidate because he wants to bomb the shit out of ISIS and maybe kill some of their families too.

I just don't know what to think his stance is but I would love to believe it is closer to what I posted above, and that's exactly what he is trying to do to people. I pray that Doland is not actually going to stand by the things he says once he is elected. I whole heartedly believe he is the most capable candidate but its downraight scary to hear some of the things he says

critical reading
http://therightstuff.biz/2016/02/12/bernie-sanders-and-black-crime-myths/

Trump releases healthcare reform plans
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reform

Lets try and break this down into bullet points or something cause none of it makes sense.

you favor a harder stance on immigration, but you read marxist's post and understand that immigration is nowhere near as detrimental as the republicans believe

so he loves racists and non-racists, a man of the people

He likes not going to war, and he also likes war.

I took a good look at Trump's voting record and he seems like a great senator.
He's never held public office before, whatever he says in 2016 about the Iraq war is irrelevant and I don't get how he has a history of anything regarding foreign policy.

I whole heartedly believe he is the most capable candidate ?????

Trump will be an insanely ineffectual president.
Both parties dislike the man, fervently.
He will try to pass executive orders that will likely be overturned as unconstitutional.
Any bit of legislation he pushes will be tossed aside like a smelly sock.
Honestly, it's pretty silly to try to push him as a candidate, but he'll be a pretty funny president. We'll finally have a congress that agrees on something :^)

Good on them. Many Chinese are the hardest working people out there. They not only work hard, but are generally quite wise with how they spend their money. If you look into salary statistics, Chinese are at the top, above Caucasians. The liberals want to just keep giving hand outs to people in poverty, which only enables them to stay in poverty and live off the government. Hard work is paramount to success and achieving the American dream.

You're kidding yourself if you think 8.5 or 17 billion dollars is a lot of money for the US government. They spend 100's of billions of dollars on black opps military projects each year alone. There are literally trillions of dollars that are unaccounted for in the last couple decades of spending.

Can you imagine the amount of money the US treasury is losing every year from the 11+ million undocumented immigrants that are not paying taxes, and some of them have started receiving food stamps or other social benefits. The wall is a drop in the bucket compared to the trillions spent each year.

Secondly, Trump has said that Mexico will pay for the wall. No he's not just going to hand them a bill for 10, 20, 30 or whatever billion dollars. There is a trade defect between the US and Mexico, and the money would be "raised" through new trade regulations/agreements/tariffs etc.

I dont know why people are surprised that asians are able to do well in western countries
They have agency, decent social trust, low time preference, high iqs and dont have a tendency to commit crimes

I guess it was inevitable that the Donald Trump thread would turn into a Stormfront gathering.

Affirmative action is systematic racism in favour of "minorities" and if you don't agree with me, you're a black panther. (thats basically the gist of your argument)