gj

jesus two-level map Ive been waiting for this for years

this map looks nutty :O

Looks incredibly interesting. I'll have to take a run around it sometime and give my thoughts!

Thats a huge fucking crosshair. I like it =)

looks different than most maps when it comes to the flow of it, really interested to see this one played

good map inbound

Looks like an interesting map. Aside from one by the traffic barrier, there are no low roofs that you can't stand on, which always annoys me in other maps.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=700625327

Nodraw texture for sections of the top of this roof.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=700625642

These girders are weird, don't go all the way up to the roof (only stopping at the door) and you can stand on them which doesn't look intentional.

Looks pretty good judging by the screenshots, I'll hop in game and give you some feedback soon.

Here comes a shitton of stuff

In general: I think the map is fine, maybe a bit small in some areas. I think the ways you create height variations are really interesting. It has a different flavour!

Bug fixes:
You can stand on top of these:

Feedback:
The midfights might turn out to be stale. I would consider adding something similar to what's on cp_vanguard, in order to make the highest highground more relevant and adding some interesting airshot action around the point. It would be fairly easy for a demo to deny anything camping there so I don't think it'd be a problem.
Here:

These three tiny doorways next to each other look cool, but I would imagine reducing the amount to 1 or 2 as well as widening the opening(s) a bit would be better for gameplay:

This alleyway seems kind of crammed. I think it would be more enjoyable play in if there was more space.

This angle might be too overpowered for snipers:

Are you supposed to be able to stand up here?:

The lobby seems really difficult to completely clear. There are a lot of entrances from second to lobby and there are several good hidings spots to hide in, if your intent is to backcap.

I love the verticality but some of the flat upright walls (probably there to nerf the large amount of high-ground) seem kinda odd. Most areas feel like trenches dominated by turrets up on key positions, rather than a two-layered style with a lot of opportunity for jumping around, and even at that the highground doesn't offer much.

It'd be really nice to see this keep a clinically clean style like reckoner. Half the reason these maps get stale is their depressing brown sunset style, and cargo isn't exactly unfamiliar in the TF2 universe.

http://i.imgur.com/KjruaBF.png

You have to be up against one of those two walls to avoid getting sniped by the long sight line.

http://i.imgur.com/7pSIyi3.png?1

Is this 64 units? Try to space it between 32 to 48 units so you don't have to crouch jump on something as important as the capture point. Look at the lips on Gullywash mid high ground for an example.

http://i.imgur.com/3YYweI4.png?1

Mid is basically completely open. You can put a building on top of the hill, extend the building on the side of each large plank, greatly increase the size of the hill while lining up the large planks closer to the top of the hill (like balcony and bridge on badlands mid), or something else. Mid layout needs that extra big something to lower visibility. Something BIG.

There's quite a few absurdly long sight lines but I'm sure you already know that. The map isn't flat!!! Thank god for that.

Love it! I haven't had a chance to play it myself but from the video, I love how the platforms above mid and generally around the map are spaced. If this map is added to the competitive rotation (I'm certain it will when finished), the winger might finally see some action.

I think there is a big problem with points connecting to each other, i just can't track the main, wide road from spawn to point and further that you can just walk through easily. It's like every class with advanced movement can reach a mid minute earlier.

Mid is like first flat floor and third floor floating somewhere disconnected by all chokes, and this is a deathtrap of a lowground if i ever saw one. The most unnecessary one too.
Don't understand the closest to mid lobby-road to upper too, why make two of the same design qubicles with a ladder by sacrificing the distance of a flang route?

Also, more coherence between first and second floor on the second point might make it more pleasant to the flow, not breaking the two-level design too. Rocks instead of cargoes, maybe? The whole map could be tightened by making all the major roofs and platforms viable and rotatable for scout's jumpability. Right now most of them just exactly the reach of a boston basher jump.

No beef with your comp intentions, but the thing actually would make the perfect pub map overall.

First of I think this map has a lot of potential, it's unlike many maps already in rotation and I can see there being many viable ways to play each point.

It is refreshing to see rollouts for all classes including medic that take some skill/attention to do and the fact that there are many different ways for each class to get to mid quickly.

There two dirt ramps leading directly onto the middle point both have an issue causing the player to get caught on them while trying to walk up.

Other than that I love the map and look forward to seeing future versions :)

If your crosshair is bigger, it's easier to hit people. TY based Warhuryeah

Very, very cool map in concept, i really love some of the features of this map. Gonna go point by point and talk about things that need changing, things that you can work with, and things that i think should stay. Also, i'm going to start with some general advice - get rid of a lot of the tricky terrain. I'll point out examples as i come to them in screenshots, but in general the terrain on this map is too tough to navigate, meaning a lot of frustration when a player slightly mistimes a jump or holds a strafe key for half a second too long.

Starting with last, a couple huge sightlines that really need to be fixed before anything else:

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/271720179209610261/0A3C1D82D41AAFAC818D4E6FF26F98154F0440D9/

^This sightline is especially egregious because there is no real way of spamming the sniper to prevent him from sniping there unless you can manage to sink rockets directly into the little gap. the sightline completely cuts off the leftmost spawn from being used because there is no way to leave spawn without being seen.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/271720179209609815/C3C64EDFF45FC181E6DDAD2490EEFFF1DC0F3BC4/

^this sightline prevents people from walking out of the top entrance completely, unless they stay in the direct center of the sightline and stay pressed to the wall, and even then thats as far as a player can move
.
.

http://i.imgur.com/ePXU3ol.jpg

The light that you can jump on to get into the upper entrance to last is super clunky, tricky terrain. I'm unsure of the small wall next to the point, i couldnt figure out any sightline that it was reasonably blocking so i'm not entirely sure why its there. The ramp at the back is sort of a bigger issue, and one that i'm not really sure how to solve. right now the ramp really has no major purpose. it ends up making right side spawners sort of unaware of whats going on in last by blocking so much vision, but doesnt protect them from snipers. I'm unsure of what changes to make to have those not happen, but i think it probably needs a change.

http://i.imgur.com/lxmvKlB.jpg

an ugly, but simple solution to the lightpost jump is to just have a ramp wrap around the entrance. i'm sure you could come up with something more elegant, but a change definitely needs to happen there. a small temporary solution for the right spawn door is to just add an entrance to the back of the right side hut, which would allow players coming out of that spawn more options to get on the point and give them a way to temporarily avoid snipers. the roof of the main entrance seems like a questionable spot to be able to stand. (also just a note, you can detonate stickies through that sort of material, meaning that you can place unclearable sticky traps by shooting sticks on the roof there)

THEORYCRAFT! THEORYCRAFT!
i think if you enclose the point and turn it into a sort of gravelpit B type of situation, have the spawns come in higher and slightly further back like the defender entrance in gpit, and have the high middle spawn come directly into/on top of the building, it could create a really interesting point. it sort of already has a gpit b feel, with the lowground surrounding the point and a lot of cover on the point itself.
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Moving into the lobby:

http://i.imgur.com/bQsTtP9.jpg

^cover up all of the gaps, they will just lead to frustration. most, if not all, of the planks need to be widened significantly or turned into actual ramps because right now they are too easy to fall off of mid combat and will have eternal issues with splashbugs. try to enable players to fight each other, not the map. i'm not really sure what to do with the top of the tunnel but i'm of the opinion that you should get rid of it, too easy to hide in, awkward space, really serves no good transitional purpose.

http://i.imgur.com/624qFuN.jpg

^same issues here, i also suggest adding a little extension to the porch so that players can just jump straight down onto the crate and dont have to strafe jump. the flat set of planks is one of the only ones i would feel comfortable leaving, if for no reason other than its the most convenient solution. consider replacing the two with a single thicker plank though, so that projectiles behave for players.

Moving on to 2nd:

http://i.imgur.com/OEETK33.jpg

right now i think the major issue with 2nd is its relative inaccessibility for most classes. i just have a few possible changes here including: lowering the point the be level with the walkway, moving the crate stack closer to the point to allow people to jump to the point/widening the ramp onto the point from the crates, extending the point from the edge of the building slightly to increase surface area and make the crates closer, and also adding a ramp from the mid entrance.

Thats all i have time for for now but i'll go over the rest of the map some time in the next few days

SeemsGood

Just going to point out really quickly that there are at least 20 other maps named "Cargo"

Hi, TF2Maps.net staff member here, we played this map in an impromptu test earlier and we're letting you know so you can see our feedback.

Feedback: http://feedback.tf2maps.net/map/cp_cargo_a1/
Demo will be available here shortly: http://demos.geit.co.uk/

I feel like the map is lacking somewhat in places to rotate from low to high ground. As a medic, if you get bounced off the high ground around the second point in a team fight, you might as well kill bind.

with regards to the tf2m impromtu, it's in a pub setting, but you should be able to take some stuff away from it as the map is in such an early stage.

I say this in the demo, but incase you don't watch that, i will recap my 2 biggest issues with the map.

1. Too much height. Almost every point in the map there can be a place someone could be standing shooting down at you. This leads to a pretty painful experience for people playing classes not called soldier, especially scout, who quite often find themselves in narrowish corridors with nothing that they are able to jump up to. Another place dogged by this issue is the second cap, which is a massive pain to get up to if you are not a soldier or demoman. Most 5cp maps made now use more of a half spire, where there is a cap on a high point, but all classes can reach it by walking easily (process, sunshine, metalworks kinda?)

2. Not enough defined chokes. I spent the whole game either behind the enemy team, or killing people who had gotten behind us. Again, admittedly this was a pub, but i think this will hold true in a 6's game as well. There was just nowhere you could stand to stop people flanking you, too many entrances and flank routes everywhere. The other effect this had was there was no real "front" on the map, what was our controlled area and was their controlled area was a complete unknown.

I like that this map is trying to do new things, but it's feeling like it's trying to do a lot of them at the same time, and I think the map would benefit from toning down some of the unique features.

Cheers for the early feedback, I'm glad you're taking the time to play the map in this clunky state.

For a2 I am focussing upon a few key problems you've stated in your feedback and that I've noticed when running around the map:

• Too few connections between the two levels which are a key feature of the map
  
• Not enough clear chokepoints
  
• Overly complicated mid for what it is
  
• Overall too many routes between areas
  
• Narrow, "trench"-like connectors

I'm glad to hear you find the overall idea promising, and I'm definitely looking forward to working with all this feedback.

Really glad to see quality feedback coming in

Did a quick runthrough of a1, here's the video of my first impressions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk3MfvMce50

http://imgur.com/Uf8xxQv

please make the second point so you don't have to crouch jump, and add some stairs on the left side

I think a good idea to reduce concerns of 2nd/last being too easily attackable (while still enabling fast rollouts for all classes) is by simply shutting off certain doors and shutters depending on what points are capped.

For instance, simply keeping everything open while everyone goes to mid is fine, but the fast rollout paths can make holding 2nd really difficult...perhaps closing off the one that's in the dead middle after mid is capped could be a solution?

http://imgur.com/vfbIdr8

please remove this sentry spot/door in general, its makes last impossible to push.

The map feels really crammed and small, if you wipe on mid seems like you just lose the whole round because it takes like 3 sec to go from mid to 2nd and the combo can already be on last when you spawn (depends on spawn time)