.

Your team did really well having 9 up and in position at the choke.

That said, I figured while I was watching I'd compare your demo to engie. (because the camera work was kinda bad)
piggy had 10 kills, 3 assist, 3 sentry, 1 disp, and 1 tellie destroyed
redman had 3 wrangler kills, 4 assist, 4 kills unwrangled and 1 sentry destroyed

I just tracked until the triple backstab. Sal was tabbing so these numbers while close could be off.

I applaud you (in no way being sarcastic) for using the wrangler as it should be used, and basing a strat on it. I don't see how ubering a scout in was targeted at taking down the wrangler.

Lots of great points. We did scrim bonus, and they held us at 2....and it didnt involve the wrangler at all. It was just superior positioning.

I am talking as a player, not as an admin. Not once in that time we were attacking did any of our members even mention the wrangler as being the problem. It was our teamwork in killing the rest.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore because you only see what you want. Never once was the challenge I put out about banning the wrangler. You're a moron for trying to bring that up. The challenge wasnt even geared towards you, it was ANYONE. You accepted, then found out what team you'd face and gave some excuses and left.

I dont know what else to tell you. If you hadnt had wrangler you would have been rolled. I guess you dont realize that. So in essence, you're fighting to get your team destroyed? I dunno man. Its whatever is between you and God that keeps you in such a tizzy.

.

.

So, you need proof to ban the wrangler but you dont need proof to ban marisa for "hacking"?
UGC is pretty much a joke its just a circle jerk of friend admins. all very immature and unprofessional.

As someone who's won UGC platinum in the past (without trying, scrimming, practicing, or thinking) I remember one thing my team noticed about every other team- they were all bad and stupid. They made unlocks like the wrangler look balanced through awful positioning, terrible teamwork, lousy players, and unbelievable overconfidence because they'd scrimmed other HL teams all week.

My team (ask blackymonster) was often able to lock down an entire side of the map with a wrangler and sniper while the other 7 just roflstomped their way through waves of bads.

I'm not trying to come across as insulting, but when a bunch of esea-invite players tell you something about class balance it really is in your best interest to shut up and take notes. Just because we don't play with 5 situational classes 100% of the time doesn't mean we don't know how those classes work; on the contrary, in order to get any effectivity out of those classes at that level players truly understand when they are applicable.

:Edit: There really is something to say about the highlander players who think they have it all figured out- during that season, there were a few other teams with a couple invite players too. They were not making the main decisions, usually the teams (bad) heavy made the majority of the comms. This is 90% of the reason every other team was a joke and easy- players with no idea what they are talking about making most of the teams important decisions.

Not insulting, just egotistical. If anything, allowing only the "good" players to define rules of the game means they will simply try and preserve the state of the game they are good at. Why allow new items into the game when they change the pace and make other classes more viable? Maybe that's one of the reasons 6s is being played with the same dominant classes since 2007 and is having a difficult time getting new players interested.

Pretty true nge. I'm guessing you were on Classic Mix^ in s3. Put a team with 3 invites and 6 from an esea-im team (all of avoided) and its a pretty sick combination. The gamesense of mix^ that season was good to watch.
You guys came in from competitive into a league of a lot of pub players or people that played 8's. It's steadily formed a better metagame and pulled a lot more competitive people into the scene.

I guess I'm not really here to argue for or against the wrangler. Our team generally didn't use it that often. We had bman running mini sentries running around with his shotgun. Take away wrangler and maps would for sure go a lot faster. I'd much rather valve just nerf it like they have a majority of the actual good weapons....but for some reason they dont seem to care about this one. And I know a lot of people have emailed them about it and it hasnt changed a thing. Every time we've held a poll it seems to go 70/30 to allow/ban. Those that dont think its overpowered either dont vote, or vote against the ban. But the ones that hate are fewer. There's always the gentlemen's agreement to just not use it if the other team also hates it.

Tangent, I know, but what would you have preferred to see from the camera? There's only so much I can do while cold-casting highlander, but if there's room to improve I'd like to hear it.

dont let anyone outside of platinum vote

???

i've seen you post this line over and over

quite frankly everything about it is complete horseshit

2 soldiers, 2 scouts, 1 medic, 1 demo 90% of the time?
38% decline in # of esea teams between this and last season?
50,000 people all over the world play TF2 and only a small handful actively play 6s?
cevo HL league tried using esea weapon ban list and 5 teams joined

its easy for folks to criticize ugc but they don't also ask the tough questions about why 6s never really took off

???

sigh........brick wall

Infinite plz stop posting, you make all people who take HL seriously look like idiots, I take it seriously and I do not want you and your stuck up, arrogant personality making HL players look like idiots incapable of engaging in a mature discussion.

Thanks.

Hildreth, I don't think your in the position of calling anyone arrogant.

i think we can all agree that the wrangler has too much health, someone start a damn petition.

lol "6s never really took off"

sucks for highlander that this shitlord is the (administrative) face of their game

infinite making ugc look even worse than it already is post by post.

well, to add more evidence to why the wrangler is op, why should 1 unlock be able to completely take 5-6 players out of the rest of the gameplay just to take down 1 sentry gun when you could have those same players doing something that isn't boring as fuck....i can't wait to see gorgeous gamers snuff out all competition we'll see how many teams you have then. the skill gap between 6's and highlander is huge, even i (megative low- 6's demo) can out dm top platinum soldiers on a bad day.

Hey yo. ESEA open stats for the last few seasons.
39
59
44
52
39
41
40
38
16
Notice a pattern? No.1, 6s teams have been increasing. NO.2, they tend to follow an up down cycle.
I'd also like to note that UGC 6s division has jumped to 186 teams shortly after a switch to ESEA rules? Not only that, but the people that I know in charge of UGC 6s division actually seem to have a good reputation among the people I know.

and sometimes i thought esea bans were dumb but i take everything back esea i'm sorry

Man you are really good at ruining posts that could have been decently constructive.
Anyway, I'm going to go ahead and give my two retarded cents because I only keep up with comp instead of doing it all that much, ha. ha. ha.
What Sally initially said makes sense: The wrangler is a weapon that can effectively shut down bad pushes, and essentially turns a sentry into even more of an immobile death cannon. I think it's kind of retarded how it tanks up the Engi's damage output by a retarded amount.
Logically, if a weapon increases a class's viability and damage output by such a large amount, then I'd say that it is overpowered. Just look at the pistol: It's a pretty awesome weapon and people can do amazing things with it (read:Quad and other scouts with good tracking). However, just the sheer insane damage output from the Wrangler makes it a technical straight upgrade to the pistol, and though the Short Circuit can basically save your entire team (I destroyed a Demo kritz charge with it once! I mean it was a pub but I STOPPED A KRITZ AS AN ENGI), the Wrangler is just logically better because of how ridiculously versatile it is and the bullshit damage output that it provides. That guy from earlier is right: it really DOES limit Engineer'ss choice. Short Circuit is amazing. Pistol is amazing. But Wrangler is just all like HEY GUYS I KNOW HOW COOL YOU TWO ARE BUT I'M JUST A RETARDED AMOUNT BETTER THAN BOTH OF YOU. Short Circuit shuts shit DOWN. SAVES yo shit.
Also Wrangler is an aimbot. Basically CoD, guys.
Some of these points are probably repeated and this argument is horseshit obsolete at this point, but I'd still like to just put out my point of view on the weapon. I'm just some random pub shitty who idolizes invite people and try to be more like them.

Actually, I'd kinda like to make a point about the Wrangler banned in 6v6: sacrificing a few people to take down an unlock is completely not viable. For pushes to last, an entire 6s team focusing on the wrangled sentry is just, as some say, total bullshit. A weapon shouldn't force an entire team to make one perfectly coordinated push to take down, regardless of it being Highlander or 6s.

If anyone has any sanity, ban that motherfucker.
Ban it hard.

(Still the best weapon in MvM.)

fixed your quote for you infinite.

Having come into this thread knowing nothing about UGC or its admins, what the fuck are these children doing running a league? They make Killing look like God himself.

the ugc head admins are convinced that there's some sort of "circle jerk" here that keeps minusfragging all their posts and hating on them without reading them

in reality the majority of users here have never heard of them before, and it's because the real circlejerk is on the ugc forums, where those same admins have been the main posters for like 10 years, and thus they got used to not being called out every time they made dumb arguments not supported by logic and reason

.

ugc deleted a thread i made asking for proof of marisa cheating xD

i've also played a lobby with infinite where he said mgibb was cheating "i'm 100% sure" while playing against him on gullywash.

The UGC admins have already stated they won't discuss their cheat review process. Based on that policy, it's easy to understand why they would delete your thread.

the only reason they won't discuss their cheat review process is because their cheat review process is basically "infinite thinks someone hacks, bans them"