airblast should work like the shortstop's shove instead of killing all your momentum+stunlock
Heavy & Pyro: How could they be changed?
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
The only role that pyro fits right now is abusing airblast on blands/gully last doorways.
We need a real concise definition of what "fix" means to us and what niche the classes we're trying to fix should fill.
Is the goal to keep both classes as situational specialists or to bring them up to speed with the rest of the 6s cast?
How much of the core mechanics do we want to keep?
Are we actually gunning for all unlocks to be whitelisted? etc
Obviously heavy should be a damage sponge, but idk what role pyro is supposed to fit in the 6s meta if we get fixed airblast.
The only role that pyro fits right now is abusing airblast on blands/gully last doorways.
We need a real concise definition of what "fix" means to us and what niche the classes we're trying to fix should fill.
Is the goal to keep both classes as situational specialists or to bring them up to speed with the rest of the 6s cast?
How much of the core mechanics do we want to keep?
Are we actually gunning for all unlocks to be whitelisted? etc
Obviously heavy should be a damage sponge, but idk what role pyro is supposed to fit in the 6s meta if we get fixed airblast.
We need a real concise definition of what "fix" means to us and what niche the classes we're trying to fix should fill.
Is the goal to keep both classes as situational specialists or to bring them up to speed with the rest of the 6s cast?
How much of the core mechanics do we want to keep?
Are we actually gunning for all unlocks to be whitelisted? etc
Obviously heavy should be a damage sponge, but idk what role pyro is supposed to fit in the 6s meta if we get fixed airblast.
Push the pyro to the pocket role, where he would be the best protector of the medic but lacking damage and mobility. Also, letting him have utility in terms of blocking enemy heals, maybe to 50%, so hitting a flare shot would basically "mark dead" the enemy and now your teammates have a clear target to focus. 50-50% pickrate on pyro/soldier as pocket would be ideal.
I was also thinking about having a slow for fire, so if you get caught by pyro's flames you'd be fucked. Would be pretty useful for protecting teammates. Pyro shouldn't do 10k damage, but instead allow his teammates do the damage for him. Maybe slow mids like process and sunshine would allow this the best, whereas like gully or badlands would be hard for the pyro.
Push the pyro to the pocket role, where he would be the best protector of the medic but lacking damage and mobility. Also, letting him have utility in terms of blocking enemy heals, maybe to 50%, so hitting a flare shot would basically "mark dead" the enemy and now your teammates have a clear target to focus. 50-50% pickrate on pyro/soldier as pocket would be ideal.
I was also thinking about having a slow for fire, so if you get caught by pyro's flames you'd be fucked. Would be pretty useful for protecting teammates. Pyro shouldn't do 10k damage, but instead allow his teammates do the damage for him. Maybe slow mids like process and sunshine would allow this the best, whereas like gully or badlands would be hard for the pyro.
I was also thinking about having a slow for fire, so if you get caught by pyro's flames you'd be fucked. Would be pretty useful for protecting teammates. Pyro shouldn't do 10k damage, but instead allow his teammates do the damage for him. Maybe slow mids like process and sunshine would allow this the best, whereas like gully or badlands would be hard for the pyro.
Pyro
Airblast
I would say that the strength of Pyro's airblast needs to based on Class's weight, so for example airblast is not going to affect Heavy too much,but will airblast Scout further away. But also maybe reduce the strength of an Airblast by 10%, this will make Heavy a bit more viable for Last pushes, since he can barely get airblasted away. Nerf for Pyro, Buff for Heavy
Reflected projectiles should not Mini-crit, it should do the normal damage when reflected, as a trade off, make projectile's travel speed faster and reduced self-damage by 25%.
Survivability
To increase Pyro's survivability, I would suggest giving the Pyro a new and unique mechanic, which is: Give the Pyro a 20% damage resistance from all sources from the Player that is burning so if you set a Soldier A on fire, you'll get 20% damage resistance from all of his weapons, but if Soldier B comes and he is not set on fire, you will not get that resistance. If it sounds too OP, then let the damage resistance scale down with time, Afterburn lasts for 10 seconds, with each second, damage resistance goes down by 2%.
Unlock
Third Degree for years has been untouched, as an unlock, it needs an improvement, I would say that it needs a rework, instead of damaging medic via hiting his healing buddy, it should deal damage to healing partner ONLY but reduce Medic's ubercharge by +-25%, if Medic has less than 25%, he'll get damaged as well, so Uber % works as a self-defense mechanic.
Heavy
Mobility
I think that his overall speed needs to be increased to 88% (which also means increasing his Speed while spun up) from 77%, so basically Eviction Notice's speed buff. And either completely rework Eviction Notice or make it increase Heavy's speed even more, up to 95% .
As I said above, reduce the airblast strength by 10% while ubered, which will barely move Heavy at all, making him a bit more viable for pushing on the attack.
Survivability
Playing Heavy against Sniper is one of the most unfun things, unless you have a Vaccinator medic or patience for the sniper to back off or get killed. So I would propose a Damage resistance to the Headshots while Spun up, a 20% damage reduction in Headshots (120 regular, 360 fully charged), that way it is much more manageable to play Heavy . To not make it too OP, make sure it doesn't stack up with Vaccinator's 10% bullet's resistance.
Just my 5 cents. Pls no hate.
[b]Pyro[/b]
[b]
Airblast[/b]
I would say that the strength of Pyro's airblast needs to based on Class's weight, so for example airblast is not going to affect Heavy too much,but will airblast Scout further away. But also maybe reduce the strength of an Airblast by 10%, this will make Heavy a bit more viable for Last pushes, since he can barely get airblasted away. [b]Nerf for Pyro, Buff for Heavy[/b]
Reflected projectiles should not Mini-crit, it should do the normal damage when reflected, as a trade off, make projectile's travel speed faster and reduced self-damage by 25%.
[b]
Survivability[/b]
To increase Pyro's survivability, I would suggest giving the Pyro a new and unique mechanic, which is: [b]Give the Pyro a 20% damage resistance from all sources from the Player that is burning[/b] so if you set a Soldier A on fire, you'll get 20% damage resistance from all of his weapons, but if Soldier B comes and he is not set on fire, you will not get that resistance. If it sounds too OP, then let the damage resistance scale down with time, Afterburn lasts for 10 seconds, with each second, damage resistance goes down by 2%.
[b]Unlock[/b]
Third Degree for years has been untouched, as an unlock, it needs an improvement, I would say that it needs a rework, instead of damaging medic via hiting his healing buddy, it should deal damage to healing partner ONLY but reduce Medic's ubercharge by +-25%, if Medic has less than 25%, he'll get damaged as well, so Uber % works as a self-defense mechanic.
[b]
Heavy[/b]
[b]Mobility[/b]
I think that his overall speed needs to be increased to 88% (which also means increasing his Speed while spun up) from 77%, so basically Eviction Notice's speed buff. And either completely rework Eviction Notice or make it increase Heavy's speed even more, up to 95% .
As I said above, reduce the airblast strength by 10% while ubered, which will barely move Heavy at all, making him a bit more viable for pushing on the attack.
[b]Survivability[/b]
Playing Heavy against Sniper is one of the most unfun things, unless you have a Vaccinator medic or patience for the sniper to back off or get killed. So I would propose a [b]Damage resistance to the Headshots while Spun up[/b], a 20% damage reduction in Headshots (120 regular, 360 fully charged), that way it is much more manageable to play Heavy . To not make it too OP, make sure it doesn't stack up with Vaccinator's 10% bullet's resistance.
Just my 5 cents. Pls no hate.
[b]
Airblast[/b]
I would say that the strength of Pyro's airblast needs to based on Class's weight, so for example airblast is not going to affect Heavy too much,but will airblast Scout further away. But also maybe reduce the strength of an Airblast by 10%, this will make Heavy a bit more viable for Last pushes, since he can barely get airblasted away. [b]Nerf for Pyro, Buff for Heavy[/b]
Reflected projectiles should not Mini-crit, it should do the normal damage when reflected, as a trade off, make projectile's travel speed faster and reduced self-damage by 25%.
[b]
Survivability[/b]
To increase Pyro's survivability, I would suggest giving the Pyro a new and unique mechanic, which is: [b]Give the Pyro a 20% damage resistance from all sources from the Player that is burning[/b] so if you set a Soldier A on fire, you'll get 20% damage resistance from all of his weapons, but if Soldier B comes and he is not set on fire, you will not get that resistance. If it sounds too OP, then let the damage resistance scale down with time, Afterburn lasts for 10 seconds, with each second, damage resistance goes down by 2%.
[b]Unlock[/b]
Third Degree for years has been untouched, as an unlock, it needs an improvement, I would say that it needs a rework, instead of damaging medic via hiting his healing buddy, it should deal damage to healing partner ONLY but reduce Medic's ubercharge by +-25%, if Medic has less than 25%, he'll get damaged as well, so Uber % works as a self-defense mechanic.
[b]
Heavy[/b]
[b]Mobility[/b]
I think that his overall speed needs to be increased to 88% (which also means increasing his Speed while spun up) from 77%, so basically Eviction Notice's speed buff. And either completely rework Eviction Notice or make it increase Heavy's speed even more, up to 95% .
As I said above, reduce the airblast strength by 10% while ubered, which will barely move Heavy at all, making him a bit more viable for pushing on the attack.
[b]Survivability[/b]
Playing Heavy against Sniper is one of the most unfun things, unless you have a Vaccinator medic or patience for the sniper to back off or get killed. So I would propose a [b]Damage resistance to the Headshots while Spun up[/b], a 20% damage reduction in Headshots (120 regular, 360 fully charged), that way it is much more manageable to play Heavy . To not make it too OP, make sure it doesn't stack up with Vaccinator's 10% bullet's resistance.
Just my 5 cents. Pls no hate.
Pyro needs a real gun. Remove flame-thrower, replace it with incendiary canon. Works just like rocket launcher (rocket jumping and all), does less damage but sets people on fire and no self-damage (or something, basically a weaker, faster soldier but still gotta have something to do with fire I guess).
For heavy, add more chest-high cover to maps like the fence on viaduct middle? Or maybe as that other guy said, heavy is actually basically fine.
Pyro needs a [i]real[/i] gun. Remove flame-thrower, replace it with incendiary canon. Works just like rocket launcher (rocket jumping and all), does less damage but sets people on fire and no self-damage (or something, basically a weaker, faster soldier but still gotta have something to do with fire I guess).
For heavy, add more chest-high cover to maps like the fence on viaduct middle? Or maybe as that other guy said, heavy is actually basically fine.
For heavy, add more chest-high cover to maps like the fence on viaduct middle? Or maybe as that other guy said, heavy is actually basically fine.
making both more aim intensive would be a plus. tighter spread comes with a naturally higher DPS at all ranges and increased skill reqs which they really need if valve wants to buff them without making pubs a hellhole for the normies. pyro in particular really deserved more reliable damage output but his low skill floor makes him hard to buff without reprocussions.
id really like to see the knockback reduced on aerial targets with the heavys minigun. GRU should have a passive downside instead of an active one. natascha should be reworked, but if they insist on a slowdown effect then it should at least have a minimum damage requirement before applying it. sandwich alt fire should be nerfed.
pyros airblast stun is dumb. a more accurate flamethrower with better range and more reliable damage would be great. reserve shooter should be reworked (really minicrits probably deserve a nerf in their own right). buff det jumping.
making both more aim intensive would be a plus. tighter spread comes with a naturally higher DPS at all ranges and increased skill reqs which they really need if valve wants to buff them without making pubs a hellhole for the normies. pyro in particular really deserved more reliable damage output but his low skill floor makes him hard to buff without reprocussions.
id really like to see the knockback reduced on aerial targets with the heavys minigun. GRU should have a passive downside instead of an active one. natascha should be reworked, but if they insist on a slowdown effect then it should at least have a minimum damage requirement before applying it. sandwich alt fire should be nerfed.
pyros airblast stun is dumb. a more accurate flamethrower with better range and more reliable damage would be great. reserve shooter should be reworked (really minicrits probably deserve a nerf in their own right). buff det jumping.
id really like to see the knockback reduced on aerial targets with the heavys minigun. GRU should have a passive downside instead of an active one. natascha should be reworked, but if they insist on a slowdown effect then it should at least have a minimum damage requirement before applying it. sandwich alt fire should be nerfed.
pyros airblast stun is dumb. a more accurate flamethrower with better range and more reliable damage would be great. reserve shooter should be reworked (really minicrits probably deserve a nerf in their own right). buff det jumping.
For those saying to tighten the spread of the flamethrower, do note that a standing pyro's flames are about as tight as they get in terms of spread, until the tip of the flames. To narrow that, Valve would have to make the boxes themselves smaller, which is an interesting idea. Otherwise, they could reduce or remove the random horizontal velocity changes that each entity has every tick which would be appreciated as well. Edit: (Or what Kav said down below)
Personally, I'd like to have some way to actually see what I'm doing with my weapons, and for others to see that as well.
For example, regardless of how you feel about airblast, a good start would be making its range more clearly defined.
Similarly, it'd be nice to see what I'm doing with my projectile shooter gun, similar to pretty much every other projectile shooter gun. Flame mechanics and movement at further ranges is already pretty interesting IMO since it keeps your momentum. Though perhaps it wouldn't be enough, it'd at least increase the skill ceiling of pyro if one could see where they were shooting.
That said, attaching particles to each of the flame entities and making the client do predictions for each of them might be a bit taxing on performance. I'd like to see Valve test hitscan on the phlog, since it at least looks hitscan-esque.
For those saying to tighten the spread of the flamethrower, do note that a [url=https://gfycat.com/HugePresentCurassow]standing pyro's flames[/url] are about as tight as they get in terms of spread, until the tip of the flames. To narrow that, Valve would have to make the boxes themselves smaller, which is an interesting idea. Otherwise, they could reduce or remove the random horizontal velocity changes that each entity has every tick which would be appreciated as well. Edit: (Or what Kav said down below)
Personally, I'd like to have some way to actually see what I'm doing with my weapons, and for others to see that as well.
For example, regardless of how you feel about [url=https://gfycat.com/EmptyImpracticalBergerpicard]airblast[/url], a good start would be making its range [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1g2x4b_Byg]more clearly defined[/url].
Similarly, it'd be nice to see what I'm doing with my projectile shooter gun, similar to pretty much every other projectile shooter gun. Flame mechanics and movement at further ranges is already pretty interesting IMO since it keeps your momentum. Though perhaps it wouldn't be enough, it'd at least [url=https://gfycat.com/AnxiousResponsibleDamselfly]increase the skill ceiling of pyro[/url] if one could see where they were shooting.
That said, attaching particles to each of the flame entities and making the client do predictions for each of them might be a bit taxing on performance. I'd like to see Valve test hitscan on the phlog, since it at least looks hitscan-esque.
Personally, I'd like to have some way to actually see what I'm doing with my weapons, and for others to see that as well.
For example, regardless of how you feel about [url=https://gfycat.com/EmptyImpracticalBergerpicard]airblast[/url], a good start would be making its range [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1g2x4b_Byg]more clearly defined[/url].
Similarly, it'd be nice to see what I'm doing with my projectile shooter gun, similar to pretty much every other projectile shooter gun. Flame mechanics and movement at further ranges is already pretty interesting IMO since it keeps your momentum. Though perhaps it wouldn't be enough, it'd at least [url=https://gfycat.com/AnxiousResponsibleDamselfly]increase the skill ceiling of pyro[/url] if one could see where they were shooting.
That said, attaching particles to each of the flame entities and making the client do predictions for each of them might be a bit taxing on performance. I'd like to see Valve test hitscan on the phlog, since it at least looks hitscan-esque.
HAJohnnyFor those saying to tighten the spread of the flamethrower, do note that a standing pyro's flames are about as tight as they get in terms of spread, until the tip of the flames. To narrow that, Valve would have to make the boxes themselves smaller, which is an interesting idea. Otherwise, they could reduce or remove the random horizontal velocity changes that each entity has every tick which would be appreciated as well.
Well another way to approach the accuracy of the weapon would be to increase projectile speed but reduce projectile lifetime, so that theres less room for error when aiming
[quote=HAJohnny]For those saying to tighten the spread of the flamethrower, do note that a [url=https://gfycat.com/HugePresentCurassow]standing pyro's flames[/url] are about as tight as they get in terms of spread, until the tip of the flames. To narrow that, Valve would have to make the boxes themselves smaller, which is an interesting idea. Otherwise, they could reduce or remove the random horizontal velocity changes that each entity has every tick which would be appreciated as well.[/quote]
Well another way to approach the accuracy of the weapon would be to increase projectile speed but reduce projectile lifetime, so that theres less room for error when aiming
Well another way to approach the accuracy of the weapon would be to increase projectile speed but reduce projectile lifetime, so that theres less room for error when aiming
Flamethrower becomes an LG with rapid damage ticks and limited range and properly functioning hit boxes. Say 2 damage per tick(if we assume 66 ticks per second) and you need to obviously track their hit box every tick since it's a LG. That would be 144 dps including two afterburn ticks.
Airblast doesn't stunlock you and reflects aren't minicrits. It knocks the pyro back in the opposite direction the same amount as it would an enemy player. Handy for disengaging or making small jumps. Airblast should probably have a longer attack interval to make this extra mobility more committal.
Secondary weapon is a LG with unlimited range which has 3 damage ticks per second which do equivalent to pistol damage. If you hit 5(or some other number) consecutive damage ticks on the same target, target catches fire. Damage amounts and fall-off per damage tick would be exactly equal to hitting a bullet with a stock pistol. I think this would make pyro interesting to use when the other team plays a slow mid fight with maybe a sniper because you could deny heals and make the sniper flinch if no one targets you.
Afterburn slows down healing to the same rate as when you have the escape plan out and packs give no health when used to extinguish oneself. Afterburn ticks go 6 6 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 1 before extinguishing, 6 dmg/s for 10s is too much in my opinion.
Flamethrower becomes an LG with rapid damage ticks and limited range and properly functioning hit boxes. Say 2 damage per tick(if we assume 66 ticks per second) and you need to obviously track their hit box every tick since it's a LG. That would be 144 dps including two afterburn ticks.
Airblast doesn't stunlock you and reflects aren't minicrits. It knocks the pyro back in the opposite direction the same amount as it would an enemy player. Handy for disengaging or making small jumps. Airblast should probably have a longer attack interval to make this extra mobility more committal.
Secondary weapon is a LG with unlimited range which has 3 damage ticks per second which do equivalent to pistol damage. If you hit 5(or some other number) consecutive damage ticks on the same target, target catches fire. Damage amounts and fall-off per damage tick would be exactly equal to hitting a bullet with a stock pistol. I think this would make pyro interesting to use when the other team plays a slow mid fight with maybe a sniper because you could deny heals and make the sniper flinch if no one targets you.
Afterburn slows down healing to the same rate as when you have the escape plan out and packs give no health when used to extinguish oneself. Afterburn ticks go 6 6 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 1 before extinguishing, 6 dmg/s for 10s is too much in my opinion.
Airblast doesn't stunlock you and reflects aren't minicrits. It knocks the pyro back in the opposite direction the same amount as it would an enemy player. Handy for disengaging or making small jumps. Airblast should probably have a longer attack interval to make this extra mobility more committal.
Secondary weapon is a LG with unlimited range which has 3 damage ticks per second which do equivalent to pistol damage. If you hit 5(or some other number) consecutive damage ticks on the same target, target catches fire. Damage amounts and fall-off per damage tick would be exactly equal to hitting a bullet with a stock pistol. I think this would make pyro interesting to use when the other team plays a slow mid fight with maybe a sniper because you could deny heals and make the sniper flinch if no one targets you.
Afterburn slows down healing to the same rate as when you have the escape plan out and packs give no health when used to extinguish oneself. Afterburn ticks go 6 6 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 1 before extinguishing, 6 dmg/s for 10s is too much in my opinion.
Valve needs to fix the airblast mechanics, because those are really broken.
Valve needs to fix the airblast mechanics, because those are really broken.
popcorpbut reduce Medic's ubercharge by +-25%
This sort of mechanic is why everyone hates the Pomson...
[quote=popcorp]but reduce Medic's ubercharge by +-25%[/quote]
This sort of mechanic is why everyone hates the Pomson...
This sort of mechanic is why everyone hates the Pomson...
Also is it just me or do airblasted DH rockets have a larger blast radius than regular DH rockets? Might just be me, but if that's the case it needs fixing too.
Also is it just me or do airblasted DH rockets have a larger blast radius than regular DH rockets? Might just be me, but if that's the case it needs fixing too.
SetletI was also thinking about having a slow for fire, so if you get caught by pyro's flames you'd be fucked.
This is similar to OW's Mei, who is very unfun to play against. Pyro with slowing in TF2 would be worse, especially because he can crit to kill with his secondaries and melees. Slows/stuns are not fun in FPSs, as we have seen with the Sandman and Natascha.
[quote=Setlet]I was also thinking about having a slow for fire, so if you get caught by pyro's flames you'd be fucked.[/quote]
This is similar to OW's Mei, who is very unfun to play against. Pyro with slowing in TF2 would be worse, especially because he can crit to kill with his secondaries and melees. Slows/stuns are not fun in FPSs, as we have seen with the Sandman and Natascha.
This is similar to OW's Mei, who is very unfun to play against. Pyro with slowing in TF2 would be worse, especially because he can crit to kill with his secondaries and melees. Slows/stuns are not fun in FPSs, as we have seen with the Sandman and Natascha.
i just hate how the airblast stops your momentum no matter what way youre moving. even if youre running away you can still get locked in the air and then youre boned. also maybe a longer delay for when you can airblast? or give the flame thrower a (reload) or (cool down) mechanic so you cant be repeatedly airblasted for 30 seconds straight
i just hate how the airblast stops your momentum no matter what way youre moving. even if youre running away you can still get locked in the air and then youre boned. also maybe a longer delay for when you can airblast? or give the flame thrower a (reload) or (cool down) mechanic so you cant be repeatedly airblasted for 30 seconds straight
Too bad valve will probably just look at this thread and ignore the good ideas
Too bad valve will probably just look at this thread and ignore the good ideas
popcorpPlaying Heavyagainst Sniperis one of the most unfun things
[quote=popcorp]
Playing Heavy [s]against Sniper[/s] is one of the most unfun things[/quote]
Playing Heavy [s]against Sniper[/s] is one of the most unfun things[/quote]
When is this pyro or heavy balance update happening? Like, how long will the voting stuff go on before the update is released?
When is this pyro or heavy balance update happening? Like, how long will the voting stuff go on before the update is released?
manikWhen is this pyro or heavy balance update happening? Like, how long will the voting stuff go on before the update is released?
I think it's pretty obvious that they haven't actually made the update yet. I'm sure they have ideas for both and they'll finish the one that got the most votes (pyro) soon™
[quote=manik]When is this pyro or heavy balance update happening? Like, how long will the voting stuff go on before the update is released?[/quote]
I think it's pretty obvious that they haven't actually made the update yet. I'm sure they have ideas for both and they'll finish the one that got the most votes (pyro) soon™
I think it's pretty obvious that they haven't actually made the update yet. I'm sure they have ideas for both and they'll finish the one that got the most votes (pyro) soon™
make it so the pyro can light himself on fire for a speedboost
make it so the pyro can light himself on fire for a speedboost
yttriummanikWhen is this pyro or heavy balance update happening? Like, how long will the voting stuff go on before the update is released?I think it's pretty obvious that they haven't actually made the update yet. I'm sure they have ideas for both and they'll finish the one that got the most votes (pyro) soon™
why do you say that? it's not impossible that the reason this update took so long was that these class updates were being made too.
[quote=yttrium][quote=manik]When is this pyro or heavy balance update happening? Like, how long will the voting stuff go on before the update is released?[/quote]
I think it's pretty obvious that they haven't actually made the update yet. I'm sure they have ideas for both and they'll finish the one that got the most votes (pyro) soon™[/quote]
why do you say that? it's not impossible that the reason this update took so long was that these class updates were being made too.
I think it's pretty obvious that they haven't actually made the update yet. I'm sure they have ideas for both and they'll finish the one that got the most votes (pyro) soon™[/quote]
why do you say that? it's not impossible that the reason this update took so long was that these class updates were being made too.
its stupid that theyre only going to balance one, wtf kind of system is that lol
its stupid that theyre only going to balance one, wtf kind of system is that lol
I think a small base speed buff with FTs being LGs so you actually have to track would be super fun. Queue outcry over a pyro damage nerf because all of a sudden Reddit can't seem to do any damage with him though.
Reflecting has never been difficult so I don't understand why you're rewarded with mini-crits. Isn't completely negating and returning the damage reward enough?
Dying to afterburn almost ten seconds later 'cause you were hit for a couple points of fire damage is super annoying, but I can accept that's more of a medicless pub problem.
remedyits stupid that theyre only going to balance one, wtf kind of system is that lol
Reread that blog post.
I think a small base speed buff with FTs being LGs so you actually have to track would be super fun. Queue outcry over a pyro damage nerf because all of a sudden Reddit can't seem to do any damage with him though.
Reflecting has never been difficult so I don't understand why you're rewarded with mini-crits. Isn't completely negating and returning the damage reward enough?
Dying to afterburn almost ten seconds later 'cause you were hit for a couple points of fire damage is super annoying, but I can accept that's more of a medicless pub problem.
[quote=remedy]its stupid that theyre only going to balance one, wtf kind of system is that lol[/quote]
Reread that blog post.
Reflecting has never been difficult so I don't understand why you're rewarded with mini-crits. Isn't completely negating and returning the damage reward enough?
Dying to afterburn almost ten seconds later 'cause you were hit for a couple points of fire damage is super annoying, but I can accept that's more of a medicless pub problem.
[quote=remedy]its stupid that theyre only going to balance one, wtf kind of system is that lol[/quote]
Reread that blog post.
"One lucky class is going to get a full-fledged class pack in a future update! New weapons! New balancing! New achievements! It could be Heavy. Or it could be Pyro. But it's not gonna be both! " did they make a different blog post where they change their minds or something?
"One lucky class is going to get a full-fledged class pack in a future update! New weapons! New balancing! New achievements! It could be Heavy. Or it could be Pyro. But it's not gonna be both! " did they make a different blog post where they change their minds or something?
valveOkay, both of them might get new Class Updates at some point. In fact, it's highly likely they both will.
[quote=valve]Okay, both of them might get new Class Updates at some point. In fact, it's highly likely they both will.[/quote]
I feel like the phlog might be the best candidate for becoming the next LG in tf2. The design and idea behind it seems to fit better as a potential replacement than the other 3 flamethrowers. I would think that maybe making the beam that the phlog would shoot deal fire-like damage, but not having any afterburn might be a little more balanced.
aslReflecting has never been difficult so I don't understand why you're rewarded with mini-crits. Isn't completely negating and returning the damage reward enough?.
I wonder if a suitable exchange for mini crit damage would be to have a regular airblast take up more ammo, but on either an extinguish or successful reflect (regardless if the projectile hit someone or not), end up costing less ammo. I love what was done with the gain 20 health on teammate extinguish for pyro, but I also wonder if allowing the 20 health to overheal a pyro would be considered op or not.
But a lot has already been covered that it's quite dumb and frustrating to play against a class where the large majority of the weapons get their definitions from comboing with other weapons, as viper summarized very well in an earlier post
Viperpyro just needs to not be a class whose unlocks are based around getting guaranteed crits or guaranteed mini-crits on people
backburner: crits people from behind
degreaser: faster weapon switch speed so you can pull off crit combos easier
phlog: kill people to build up free crits
flare gun: free crit on someone who's on fire
detonator: free mini-crit on someone who's on fire
reserve shooter: free mini crit on someone who you've airblasted upward
manmelter: free crits after extinguishing teammates (only passable crit-based unlock imo)
scorch shot: free mini-crit on someone who's on fire, and has a sort of effect radius to boot, so basically a better version of the detonator without detonator jumping (EDIT: apparentally the scorch shot blows up stickies, what the fuck)
axtinguisher: free crit on someone who's on fire
volcano fragment: hit people to light them on fire
neon annihilator: free crit on someone who is in water or wet in some way, because they're trying to avoid being on fire
I also remember that kos or someone else mentioned a change to a heavy melee weapon that would give the heavy the ability to b-hop, making it a (more) skill based weapon. It would probably have to come with some downsides of being more vulnerable while spun up or something along those lines, but I feel like pyro has a little bit more potential to be explored than heavy, as pyro is classified as a class that's classified as an "offense" class alongside soldier and scout. Don't get me wrong, heavy can be fun to play, but pyro could use a nice makeover that might breathe a breath of fresh air into a class that gets a lot of hate for having the ability to be played with a steering wheel.
I feel like the phlog might be the best candidate for becoming the next LG in tf2. The design and idea behind it seems to fit better as a potential replacement than the other 3 flamethrowers. I would think that maybe making the beam that the phlog would shoot deal fire-like damage, but not having any afterburn might be a little more balanced.
[quote=asl]Reflecting has never been difficult so I don't understand why you're rewarded with mini-crits. Isn't completely negating and returning the damage reward enough?.[/quote]
I wonder if a suitable exchange for mini crit damage would be to have a regular airblast take up more ammo, but on either an extinguish or successful reflect (regardless if the projectile hit someone or not), end up costing less ammo. I love what was done with the gain 20 health on teammate extinguish for pyro, but I also wonder if allowing the 20 health to overheal a pyro would be considered op or not.
But a lot has already been covered that it's quite dumb and frustrating to play against a class where the large majority of the weapons get their definitions from comboing with other weapons, as viper summarized very well in an earlier post
[quote=Viper]pyro just needs to not be a class whose unlocks are based around getting guaranteed crits or guaranteed mini-crits on people
backburner: crits people from behind
degreaser: faster weapon switch speed so you can pull off crit combos easier
phlog: kill people to build up free crits
flare gun: free crit on someone who's on fire
detonator: free mini-crit on someone who's on fire
reserve shooter: free mini crit on someone who you've airblasted upward
manmelter: free crits after extinguishing teammates (only passable crit-based unlock imo)
scorch shot: free mini-crit on someone who's on fire, and has a sort of effect radius to boot, so basically a better version of the detonator without detonator jumping (EDIT: apparentally the scorch shot blows up stickies, what the fuck)
axtinguisher: free crit on someone who's on fire
volcano fragment: hit people to light them on fire
neon annihilator: free crit on someone who is in water or wet in some way, because they're trying to avoid being on fire[/quote]
I also remember that kos or someone else mentioned a change to a heavy melee weapon that would give the heavy the ability to b-hop, making it a (more) skill based weapon. It would probably have to come with some downsides of being more vulnerable while spun up or something along those lines, but I feel like pyro has a little bit more potential to be explored than heavy, as pyro is classified as a class that's classified as an "offense" class alongside soldier and scout. Don't get me wrong, heavy can be fun to play, but pyro could use a nice makeover that might breathe a breath of fresh air into a class that gets a lot of hate for having the ability to be played with a steering wheel.
[quote=asl]Reflecting has never been difficult so I don't understand why you're rewarded with mini-crits. Isn't completely negating and returning the damage reward enough?.[/quote]
I wonder if a suitable exchange for mini crit damage would be to have a regular airblast take up more ammo, but on either an extinguish or successful reflect (regardless if the projectile hit someone or not), end up costing less ammo. I love what was done with the gain 20 health on teammate extinguish for pyro, but I also wonder if allowing the 20 health to overheal a pyro would be considered op or not.
But a lot has already been covered that it's quite dumb and frustrating to play against a class where the large majority of the weapons get their definitions from comboing with other weapons, as viper summarized very well in an earlier post
[quote=Viper]pyro just needs to not be a class whose unlocks are based around getting guaranteed crits or guaranteed mini-crits on people
backburner: crits people from behind
degreaser: faster weapon switch speed so you can pull off crit combos easier
phlog: kill people to build up free crits
flare gun: free crit on someone who's on fire
detonator: free mini-crit on someone who's on fire
reserve shooter: free mini crit on someone who you've airblasted upward
manmelter: free crits after extinguishing teammates (only passable crit-based unlock imo)
scorch shot: free mini-crit on someone who's on fire, and has a sort of effect radius to boot, so basically a better version of the detonator without detonator jumping (EDIT: apparentally the scorch shot blows up stickies, what the fuck)
axtinguisher: free crit on someone who's on fire
volcano fragment: hit people to light them on fire
neon annihilator: free crit on someone who is in water or wet in some way, because they're trying to avoid being on fire[/quote]
I also remember that kos or someone else mentioned a change to a heavy melee weapon that would give the heavy the ability to b-hop, making it a (more) skill based weapon. It would probably have to come with some downsides of being more vulnerable while spun up or something along those lines, but I feel like pyro has a little bit more potential to be explored than heavy, as pyro is classified as a class that's classified as an "offense" class alongside soldier and scout. Don't get me wrong, heavy can be fun to play, but pyro could use a nice makeover that might breathe a breath of fresh air into a class that gets a lot of hate for having the ability to be played with a steering wheel.
xattuui just hate how the airblast stops your momentum no matter what way youre moving. even if youre running away you can still get locked in the air and then youre boned. also maybe a longer delay for when you can airblast? or give the flame thrower a (reload) or (cool down) mechanic so you cant be repeatedly airblasted for 30 seconds straight
Yeah basically this^
Optional: Give pyro a secondary unlock that's strong at mid range but weak at short range. Currently pyro uses airblast to auto win close range fights. I want to instead see a pyro use airblast to push players to a mid range 'sweet spot' where they can win with the new unlock. Maybe something like the medic's cross bow that works better at mid-long range.
Heavy: I don't know as far as competitive but I'd love a primary that gave me 100 health so I could run around in pubs 400 health fat scouting people.
[quote=xattuu]i just hate how the airblast stops your momentum no matter what way youre moving. even if youre running away you can still get locked in the air and then youre boned. also maybe a longer delay for when you can airblast? or give the flame thrower a (reload) or (cool down) mechanic so you cant be repeatedly airblasted for 30 seconds straight[/quote]
Yeah basically this^
Optional: Give pyro a secondary unlock that's strong at mid range but weak at short range. Currently pyro uses airblast to auto win close range fights. I want to instead see a pyro use airblast to push players to a mid range 'sweet spot' where they can win with the new unlock. Maybe something like the medic's cross bow that works better at mid-long range.
Heavy: I don't know as far as competitive but I'd love a primary that gave me 100 health so I could run around in pubs 400 health fat scouting people.
Yeah basically this^
Optional: Give pyro a secondary unlock that's strong at mid range but weak at short range. Currently pyro uses airblast to auto win close range fights. I want to instead see a pyro use airblast to push players to a mid range 'sweet spot' where they can win with the new unlock. Maybe something like the medic's cross bow that works better at mid-long range.
Heavy: I don't know as far as competitive but I'd love a primary that gave me 100 health so I could run around in pubs 400 health fat scouting people.
make pyro's flamethrower like Zarya's gun so you actually have to track to do damage.
make pyro's flamethrower like Zarya's gun so you actually have to track to do damage.
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