oh shit waddup, here come dat thread!

http://www.aradani.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/wotlogo.jpg

In your opinion....

To add variety, you don't want everyone to run the same loadouts do you?

If something's not worth being banned, it should be unbanned. Nobody will use it anyway if's it's a bad weapon but is slightly annoying to play against.

Why hasn't crossbow been banned yet?
It's retarded to run anything else as medic as it's a direct upgrade from all other weapons, it actually hurts your team to NOT run it.
It's been buffed so many times (even after being stronger than the alternatives) to the point where actually NOBODY uses anything else. Nobody.

Would anyone want to play medic if the crossbow was banned?

I swear dude just make the Overdose's buff passive instead of active and it could contend the xbow

i miss my needles dude

The problem with banning or nerfing the crossbow is that you'd be lowering the skill ceiling for medic and also removing a bit of ease and fun from Medic. At this point, buffing the other medic primaries to equal utility of the crossbow is probably the best option.

But how do you choose if it's worth banning or not. And what of weapons that are sidegrades or just a bit better but absolutly aids to play against. That's what bothers me.
When some think that weaps like the lnl or the cow mangler shouldn't be banned...

You guys do realize that banning the crossbow is yet another scout buff right

I guess the better question to ask is when is scout getting nerfed rather than what is going to be buffed

There is no existing competitive game in valve's matchmaking. Next to nobody plays it, there are no players moving over from matchmaking to the competitive scene proper because there are barely any players to move over from MM in the first place. If Valve could remember how to make a solid update and maybe do some advertisement on the steam store page or something, "re-launch" TF2 as a competitive game, THEN there would be something to be said for this.

b-b-but those are casual weapons!!!

That's not even an argument. If crossbow is literally the sole reason that medic's fun to you, then good luck to ya.

Yes, banning crossbow would lower the skill ceiling, but it makes the game way less gimmicky (which I believe you all hate). Faster heals than medigun, faster building, 150HP arrows to someone who's being a complete retard out of position.

Buff a scout? The net effect of it would be negligible.
Xbow honestly needs a nerf, it's just too powerful compared to the alternatives.

Mate, the crossbow is a cracking unlock. Being an upgrade on stock is not a reason for banning.

It adds so much to the medic without negatively altering the game balance and it works great in comp and pubs. Most importantly it adds a load of ways for medic to outplay the opposition because there is a big skill cap in terms of awareness and mechanics. This is the heart of a good competitive unlock. It would probably survive being nerfed a bit as well.

You see Valve, you can design good items if you try.

well it also gives people the chance to go back on changes made in the previous list now that the meta is more or less settled.

im sure if uve gone almost 10 years with bans and valve has seen that why change now and cry for support

i mean from the look of it this is just pulling out all the stops since tf2 is on a decline for NA at least

if it didnt concern u to get valve involved during the time when the first few lans were happening WHY NOW

because pubbers whined and for a while there we thought we were actually going to get valve support

/thread

the base jumper will always be broken unless its nerfed into uselessness, having that much air control is disgustingly powerful

the sandman's utility either has to be very weak / situational or its utility has to not be free

not-free utility = banners, buildings, ubercharge, soda popper
free utility = jarate, milk, guillotine, sandvich

making shotgun soldier viable instead so scout's skill ceiling isnt lowered may be better

Crossbow would be fine had they not added the uber building mechanic. It is a weapon that doesnt punish you for being bad. You just spam it into a group of people and either it damages an opponent (up to 80 dmg I believe) or heals your teammates for 60-150 hp. On top of all that, you can just switch to your medigun and back without having to reload.
To reward a medic with up to 8-10% (?) uber on max range for spamming your arrows - or when powerbuilding - shooting a not moving target, is simply not necessary.

That being said, it does need to get nerfed but not banned. Yes, you basically have to run it. But by far most medics run it, because it is simply more exciting to use than needles.

Needles 4 life. The day crossbow became mandatory was a sad day.

I'm *all* for the medic having more to do - but the current implementation of the crossbow dramatically alters player behaviors and underlying assumptions about the game, which results in more chaotic/frustrating game play.

the overdose was a fun weapon and having retards stand still waiting for an arrow while 3 enemies surround them is stupid
even dumber when they rage at meds

If Marxist says it I reverse my opinion. Ban it

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/173/Sunk-Cost-Fallacy

Make it so the crossbow only heals players in the air lol

It's sad that needles have little to no use, but banning the crossbow would be a mistake as it would lower the skill ceiling of medic and also make him more boring to play.

Because unlike some of the other horrible unlocks which should be banned or never be unbanned unless they are inherently changed to be made somewhat skill based, the crossbow utilizes a skill based mechanic for healing. Conceptually it's a great idea for a weapon it's just not the most balanced especially after they made it build uber. Other weapons like the parachute (completely removes the mastery of jumping and airstrafing that makes top level soldiers so unique) or sandman (a weapon that stuns players in comp tf2 :thinking:) are conceptually terrible weapons that will always be gimmicky unless you completely change them or nerf them to hell.

This argument makes no sense whatsoever to me. Is csgo a promod for having different round/bomb timers? It also makes the assumption that valve created these weapons from the start to be used in a competitive environment when this obviously isn't true. Therefore the shoulder of burden should be on valve to fix these weapons not on the competitive players when A): there's no evidence whatsoever that having a looser whitelist would result in valve making any change whatsoever in any sort of reasonable timeline especially when no one from the comp scene or the pub scene is interested in valves garbage matchmaking system anyway B): many of the unlocks that are banned and some that were allowed are gimmicky, not skill based, and have been complained about for years C): these weapons will reduce the enjoyment for the competitive players who have been lead on by these completely devoid of evidence promises. If Valve was serious and had the resources to positively affect tf2 they would create some forum of open dialogue between them and top level players/organizers from around the world and would have made a matchmaking system that wasn't awful. Clearly they aren't interested in either of these things so there is no reason to allow the last remaining awful unlocks.

Also where are you getting this remove all the unlocks idea from? I'm pretty sure realistically no one from the comp scene wants this besides a few shitposters. 2007 tf2 is frankly awful and some of the unlocks have definitely added to the game in a positive way. The problem is that valve has released many weapons that are not only unbalanced but completely lacking of any mechanical skill. Allow these weapons and what does tf2 become? The main thing in my opinion that makes tf2 unique in a competitive sense is that it has an incredible high degree of mechanical skill. Take this away and oversaturate the game with unlock after unlock it makes tf2 more bland not unique. There are plenty of other team based fps at this point that don't require much mechanically so I guess all tf2 would have is that it's free to play lmao.

valve used to not care about competitive tf2 at all. Now they have in game competitve obviously they are more interested in what we do with competitive now, and how the game plays. Valve has been balancing broken unlocks and changing the game especially in the past few years. I feel the pyro updates will bring big changes and items will be changed regardless. Even aspects at the core of competitive could be changed without our input.