Just one of them

It won't last long unless we actively try to switch to them.

Copied from the other thread:

Better then the majority of the time when no one uses them

crossposting from the other thread

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/tftvdm

made this so we can get the servers populated whenever they're empty

Thinking about DMing today? make the right choice. complain about extvs or you can join fogs. do it. stop crying.

74.91.114.228:27015

The chicago server seemed a bit stuttery when I was on, but otherwise good stuff. I'm liking the 8 person limit so far.

I like the 8 person limit, it makes the map a bit easier to move around in.

You don't need more than a few people to regularly use them everyday, and then their friends/people who see populated servers will join. A few days in and they're always full.

just so everyones aware, the server list on the right side is ordered from top down by # of players in the server. Since Fog's servers have a max of 8, they'll always show up towards the bottom of that list.

One thing that would be nice to fix - there's some freeze time at the beginning of some rounds. I guess it's not important, but it is really annoying.

i started it today :>

i think the eight person limit is much better too

i think gullywash and the double decker arena thingie plays well, but i don't like warmfront, it's too big and the spawns are too far back

the only-headshots-do-damage is awesome too!

DM'd in Fog's server for about an hour. Was fun and I like the 8 player limit.

Also I'm gonna try to get it populated again. 3 people in atm.

Like where you have to wait 20 seconds or whatever then it really starts the round?

I've been thinking of removing warmfront from the rotation. I would like to get some more opinions of the map rotation

My personal opinion would be to remove Warmfront and Turbine (not sure yet about viable replacements), but the majority likes Turbine I guess. So probably just remove Warmfront and put in Freight if it's not already in.

Alright, replaced Warmfront with Freight

No. It's normal during the short pregame, then when you have the reset before it really starts you're frozen for a few seconds. Only on some maps.

Why does everyone like the 8 person limit?

You might spend less time getting gayed by spawns, but you also spend less time fighting. More time running around looking for people. It emphasizes skill differences between teams enormously too. The worse team will spend the entire time being 2v4ed because they're dieing too quickly to better players. That's not fun for anyone.

I think 5v5 is better. More fighting is better practice. 10 players is the number of combat classes theoretically on the field anyways. Less skilled players have opportunities to shoot more skilled ones because they have the support of teammates (due to the fact that there are 5). Yea you're gonna get shot in the back and get shitty DM spawns but that's what DM is. Kill and get killed. It's not a measure of any players ability, only a means to improve it.

I like the idea behind no bodyshots, but in reality it sucks. You don't like getting bodyshot in the middle of a fight? That's fine, I can understand that. But I don't like not having a finisher, I don't like getting winbombed, and I don't like getting bum rushed by a scout avoiding every fight so he can get to me.

So make all headshots instant kills, restrict Demo's stickies to 2 or 3, and give sniper an HP buff. Or leave headshots alone, allow bodyshots, and restrict them to 50 damage regardless of charge. Sniper already has the crappiest time in DM, why make it crappier?

8 people feels less spammy IMO, I like it more than 10.

"You spend less time fighting" I haven't noticed this at all. It's only 1 person less. Given the map is small enough, or the spawns are near each other enough, 1 less person isn't really a problem.

As for the no headshot plugin, I can live with or without it. I just don't get how it's "cheap" considering it doesn't matter what's cheap or not in scrims* or matches. If you hit your shot, you hit your shot. Doesn't matter how it was hit. But like I said, I'm fine either way.

* depends on what happens

It has more impact when there's a greater skill disparity between teams. Of course they lose the 2v1s and the 3v1s, but they lose the 1v1s too. Because of that the better team just wanders around the map waiting for someone to spawn near them before immediately killing them. The less skilled team isn't able to group up to compete with the more skilled one. In 5v5 the skill disparity is much harder to notice because 5 is too many people to keep down that way. There's a much greater randomness factor, but that's what keeps it interesting for all involved.

I don't think the headshot plugin exists because it's cheap, just because it's annoying. and probably not the focus for most snipers. I'm sure it is annoying, but a Demoman running around with 8 instantly reloading stickies is annoying, and a Scout avoiding every fight on the map to take a point from a Sniper is annoying too. I don't see why just Sniper gets nerfed for it.

This happens sometimes even on the 5v5. It depends on the map more than the number of people. I was just on an extvdm while the map was badlands, and for a decent fraction of the round the other team was blobbed up in the center.

Sometimes, but significantly less frequently. I was on Process when the other team was completely unable to fight back. Granary and Badlands are the maps where it's most common, because players spawn outside/around mid, and are then forced to move through a choke or fight a very uphill battle. We can agree that Process isn't like this, right? Crates are accessible from several locations, entry points into mid are accessible to all classes (minus IT), and spawning on the outskirts of mid doesn't immediately make you a target for every player on the enemy team. If it's happening on a map as neutral as Process then I don't think it's just the map to blame.

8 person limit is oldschool its the best.

With 4v4, a team can suffer a lot more with a sniper/demo on it especially with the headshot plugin. Snipers mean far less and the team without it usually does better at least with the hour and thirty minutes i spent playing on fog's server. Bigger maps i found myself searching for people but on maps like turbine i had a lot more fun. Didn't feel nearly as clustered.

Its really just a give and take i suppose.

I'm considering removing the sniper entirely from my DM servers with this discussion. Thoughts?

Teams should have no problem getting at least 4 players on a server at a time. Anytime my team wants to DM we switch to Fog servers just so they don't sit empty. Not that hard.

Imo, sniper is pretty pointless in DM and most of the time just a waste of a player slot.

I would agree with getting rid of sniper. One team has to fight 3v4 pretty much. Especially a problem if the team without a sniper is already stronger.

If anything, just ban the primary weapon. People like using SMG to help with tracking. Good for when scout spots are taken.