There's been bits and bobs present in other threads, but it's been suggested to consolidate everything into one place. Please keep it constructive, and provide suggestions where possible.
Coverage feedback:
+ Split screen rollouts
+ Weapon loadout icons
+ 2nd POV for offclassing etc.
+ Nuze at 10
+ Pick/ban system
+ Player cams
+ Enjoyed all on-screen talent (couch and casters)
- A few big plays weren't caught on camera (LAN limitations/no cheat feed etc. Brainstorming thread)
- Lack of interviews
- Need more frag movies etc. to keep folks entertained during downtime
- Harder to keep track of non-casted match results than it should've been. Comp.tf went down for a while during playoffs, consider mirroring those results elsewhere to prevent single point of failure. An /r/tf2 results thread would be good
- WAR's a great caster and made me laugh a shitload, but he was talking over Kermit quite a bit
I'm not intending to have a go at Essentials.tf - they did a fantastic job and I can understand that they wanted to focus on getting the new features and the barebones nailed this time around, so this probably meant sacrificing other things such as interviews during the coverage.
There's been bits and bobs present in other threads, but it's been suggested to consolidate everything into one place. Please keep it constructive, and provide suggestions where possible.
Coverage feedback:
+ Split screen rollouts
+ Weapon loadout icons
+ 2nd POV for offclassing etc.
+ Nuze at 10
+ Pick/ban system
+ Player cams
+ Enjoyed all on-screen talent (couch and casters)
- A few big plays weren't caught on camera (LAN limitations/no cheat feed etc. [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/43234/how-can-we-improve-camerawork-during-matches]Brainstorming thread[/url])
- Lack of interviews
- Need more frag movies etc. to keep folks entertained during downtime
- Harder to keep track of non-casted match results than it should've been. Comp.tf went down for a while during playoffs, consider mirroring those results elsewhere to prevent single point of failure. An /r/tf2 results thread would be good
- WAR's a great caster and made me laugh a shitload, but he was talking over Kermit quite a bit
I'm not intending to have a go at Essentials.tf - they did a fantastic job and I can understand that they wanted to focus on getting the new features and the barebones nailed this time around, so this probably meant sacrificing other things such as interviews during the coverage.
Personally I found the weapon icons and the uber bar to be too distracting.
Overall the production seemed to be solid, the live lighting wasnt ideal.
Cornpop is a stud, both interms of appearance and ability.
Personally I found the weapon icons and the uber bar to be too distracting.
Overall the production seemed to be solid, the live lighting wasnt ideal.
Cornpop is a stud, both interms of appearance and ability.
the specgui panels were amazing imo. Demo VR really isnt my thing but if the two different perspectives were a bit more seperated it would melt my brain less. waiting upwards of 30 minutes for matches without doing winner/loser interviews was a bit of a let down especially as an american watching players im not as familiar with. warhuryeah's casting added amazing sarcastic humor to the games which offers a nice contrast when he eventually compliments a team. I think the more experienced tf2 casters lack the smugness that a lot of the greatest talent in esports have.
the specgui panels were amazing imo. Demo VR really isnt my thing but if the two different perspectives were a bit more seperated it would melt my brain less. waiting upwards of 30 minutes for matches without doing winner/loser interviews was a bit of a let down especially as an american watching players im not as familiar with. warhuryeah's casting added amazing sarcastic humor to the games which offers a nice contrast when he eventually compliments a team. I think the more experienced tf2 casters lack the smugness that a lot of the greatest talent in esports have.
The player cams were shitty. It just didn't look right in the spot they put it.
The player cams were shitty. It just didn't look right in the spot they put it.
Overall thought the whole thing was fantastic. Here is my feedback:
2nd POV was a very good idea but it was so small when it was on the main screen in the hall that it was hard to tell what was going on. Just a bit bigger would be good.
I was also thinking that there could just be a HUD element to show class changes or something so we don't need to show the engi building a SG last in the second POV all the time.
When we are waiting for the matches to start I would like to see the casters a bit better informed as to the reason so they can let us know, like they do in non esports. I think it might make it more bearable for the viewers.
If we have player cams lets get some reactions to plays.
Finally was the crowd miced? I didn't watch the twitch (just sat at the stage) but that might be nice to do.
Overall thought the whole thing was fantastic. Here is my feedback:
2nd POV was a very good idea but it was so small when it was on the main screen in the hall that it was hard to tell what was going on. Just a bit bigger would be good.
I was also thinking that there could just be a HUD element to show class changes or something so we don't need to show the engi building a SG last in the second POV all the time.
When we are waiting for the matches to start I would like to see the casters a bit better informed as to the reason so they can let us know, like they do in non esports. I think it might make it more bearable for the viewers.
If we have player cams lets get some reactions to plays.
Finally was the crowd miced? I didn't watch the twitch (just sat at the stage) but that might be nice to do.
I felt like the weapon icons (although pretty) were kinda pointless. I don't think it was worth the added clutter especially considering you know what weapon classes like soldier and medic are on most of the time and knowing what weapon is out at any given moment isn't really too useful.
But other than than that I really enjoyed the stream and the visuals :)
I felt like the weapon icons (although pretty) were kinda pointless. I don't think it was worth the added clutter especially considering you know what weapon classes like soldier and medic are on most of the time and knowing what weapon is out at any given moment isn't really too useful.
But other than than that I really enjoyed the stream and the visuals :)
Will you be making the sourcemod plugin used for the hud stats and obs Web scene public so that it can be used for future community events. It would also be neat if whoever developed the plugins to do a tech breakdown video like the nodecg ones that are on YouTube. I know of a few young developers that are starting to get into developing stream graphics and plugins and it would be great to give the community's future contributors access to expand on this technology..
Will you be making the sourcemod plugin used for the hud stats and obs Web scene public so that it can be used for future community events. It would also be neat if whoever developed the plugins to do a tech breakdown video like the nodecg ones that are on YouTube. I know of a few young developers that are starting to get into developing stream graphics and plugins and it would be great to give the community's future contributors access to expand on this technology..
to be honest the observing was very noticably bad at times, and there is no point in the csgo weapon display thing but other than that everything was great
to be honest the observing was very noticably bad at times, and there is no point in the csgo weapon display thing but other than that everything was great
Only thing about observing that irks me is when casters talking about certain aspects of plays happening ie Scout in behind and they continue to follow a soldier respawning and rolling out into the action.
Production quality wise was highest I ever seen. I did not like the seedings, the schedule is what it is, tough for everyone and the map pick system was odd. Would have preferred something mirroring ETF2L system.
Other than that I thought it was great, remembering though it was not perfect without essential s we would never gotten a LAN.
Only thing about observing that irks me is when casters talking about certain aspects of plays happening ie Scout in behind and they continue to follow a soldier respawning and rolling out into the action.
Production quality wise was highest I ever seen. I did not like the seedings, the schedule is what it is, tough for everyone and the map pick system was odd. Would have preferred something mirroring ETF2L system.
Other than that I thought it was great, remembering though it was not perfect without essential s we would never gotten a LAN.
The spec targetID was too small for the player cams, maybe making it larger for future events would be better
The spec targetID was too small for the player cams, maybe making it larger for future events would be better
I think that the weapon display in the HUD was pretty great to notice things like quickies on some blands games, banners or black boxes (specially by lowpander) so i don't think it was entirely "useless" but it's true that in some games it was definitely not needed.
Maybe if it only showed up non-meta weapons? :thinking:
I still think it was a cool little thing to see in general, even if it wasn't really all that needed it brought a little special thing to the spectator experience, which i enjoyed.
Aside from that, maybe a few more ways to entertain people during downtime would've been great but nothing else i would personally even think about complaining. Really good job!
I think that the weapon display in the HUD was pretty great to notice things like quickies on some blands games, banners or black boxes (specially by lowpander) so i don't think it was entirely "useless" but it's true that in some games it was definitely not needed.
Maybe if it only showed up non-meta weapons? :thinking:
I still think it was a cool little thing to see in general, even if it wasn't really all that needed it brought a little special thing to the spectator experience, which i enjoyed.
Aside from that, maybe a few more ways to entertain people during downtime would've been great but nothing else i would personally even think about complaining. Really good job!
I'd agree that the weapon icons, though really cool, were just clutter. That HUD in general is a masterpiece though
Less badlands mid SFM, more frag vids and crowd. Not a dab kinda guy but I was part of the group that made drawings of emotes and other things for chat to spam. Was a lot of fun to do and it seemed to keep chat entertained during the downtime
more Nuze
I'd agree that the weapon icons, though really cool, were just clutter. That HUD in general is a masterpiece though
Less badlands mid SFM, more frag vids and crowd. Not a dab kinda guy but I was part of the group that made drawings of emotes and other things for chat to spam. Was a lot of fun to do and it seemed to keep chat entertained during the downtime
more Nuze
On downtime; Interviews instigating shittalk. :)
Edit/
War to Interview
Actually, War to do everything. He made this weekend for us. :)
On downtime; Interviews instigating shittalk. :)
Edit/
War to Interview
Actually, War to do everything. He made this weekend for us. :)
I really liked how they kept improving on the playercams to make them less stretched and less distracting (WE DOTA NOW BOIS???)
I really liked how they kept improving on the playercams to make them less stretched and less distracting (WE DOTA NOW BOIS???)
Topic is called i61 feedback, so the following is not all specifically meant for Essentials.tf. After doing production for i49, i52, i55 and i58, it was both weird and relaxing not to be involved this time :)
+ HUD
+ In-game framerate (didn't look like 60FPS all the time, but overall smooth and good enough)
+ Warhuryeah, great balance between insightful commentary and taking the piss out of the teams and players if the matches got a little boring or when bad plays were made.
+ Stream encoding quality
+ Splitscreen rollouts and sniper action
+ Quality of casted matches, close games
+ Production quality.
+ Player cams, instantly linked to the in-game observer, very cool.
+ @TF2Essentials twitter and Facebook was alright
+ Comp.tf
+ b4nny giving the LAN just a sprinkle of intercontinental rivalry and lifting SVIFT to 7's level
- Online servers at LAN for the first day again.
- No STVs.
- In-game camera missing too many key moments. Weird considering the experienced observers.
- Audio isssues. Picking up stage music, pitch and speed changes.
- No interviews
- No team reaction shots, no roaming camera, just static shots.
- Little connection to the LAN, just some shots of the crowd in front of the screen.
- Picture-in-picture too small, especially the first day.
- Side-by-side view hurt my eyes sometimes, especially with two snipers zoomed in and looking around.
- Lack of hype leading up to the event
- Lack of written coverage before and during the event
- Intro and outro movie felt underwhelming compared to previous editions
- Teamfortress.tv twitch not auto-hosting Essentials.tf
- Teamfortress.tv in general regarding i61
Overall very impressed by the Essentials.tf production, thanks a lot!
Topic is called i61 feedback, so the following is not all specifically meant for Essentials.tf. After doing production for i49, i52, i55 and i58, it was both weird and relaxing not to be involved this time :)
+ HUD
+ In-game framerate (didn't look like 60FPS all the time, but overall smooth and good enough)
+ Warhuryeah, great balance between insightful commentary and taking the piss out of the teams and players if the matches got a little boring or when bad plays were made.
+ Stream encoding quality
+ Splitscreen rollouts and sniper action
+ Quality of casted matches, close games
+ Production quality.
+ Player cams, instantly linked to the in-game observer, very cool.
+ @TF2Essentials twitter and Facebook was alright
+ Comp.tf
+ b4nny giving the LAN just a sprinkle of intercontinental rivalry and lifting SVIFT to 7's level
- Online servers at LAN for the first day again.
- No STVs.
- In-game camera missing too many key moments. Weird considering the experienced observers.
- Audio isssues. Picking up stage music, pitch and speed changes.
- No interviews
- No team reaction shots, no roaming camera, just static shots.
- Little connection to the LAN, just some shots of the crowd in front of the screen.
- Picture-in-picture too small, especially the first day.
- Side-by-side view hurt my eyes sometimes, especially with two snipers zoomed in and looking around.
- Lack of hype leading up to the event
- Lack of written coverage before and during the event
- Intro and outro movie felt underwhelming compared to [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc7VzV8mAEU]previous[/url] [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6LlRjblCuI]editions[/url]
- Teamfortress.tv twitch not auto-hosting Essentials.tf
- Teamfortress.tv in general regarding i61
Overall very impressed by the Essentials.tf production, thanks a lot!
I think the backgrounds and lightning of the analist and casting desks were pretty bad. The pitch black background really melted with dark hair and clothes of the people, nuze was literally a floating face in the darkness at some points.
Also, I think the stats like K/D and DPM during the game is pretty cool, for me they were somewhat hard to read or compare though, also because often they were only visible for a very short time.
Player cams are a cool idea, they seemed a bit off though. Also reactions would be nice.
All in all the production was really good though, I'm really impressed how we can still add up basically every year. Thanks a lot to everyone involved!
I think the backgrounds and lightning of the analist and casting desks were pretty bad. The pitch black background really melted with dark hair and clothes of the people, nuze was literally a floating face in the darkness at some points.
Also, I think the stats like K/D and DPM during the game is pretty cool, for me they were somewhat hard to read or compare though, also because often they were only visible for a very short time.
Player cams are a cool idea, they seemed a bit off though. Also reactions would be nice.
All in all the production was really good though, I'm really impressed how we can still add up basically every year. Thanks a lot to everyone involved!
1. also noticed the in-game camerawork seemed to miss more than past years. and when the caster says "i'm going to watch [player] in this midfight" the observer should too. it's such a jarring feeling to think, oh hell yeah, let's watch kaptain like war said, and then remember that we are powerless and can't.
2. the camera-in-camera thing was nice but a lot of the time you guys should have considered putting the spy/sniper/player behind on *the main screen* and the stalemate spamfest on the little one
3. knowing what weapons everyone has out is completely unnecessary...?
4. one guy used a rocket launcher that had a skull flopping around, couldn't see anything on the bottom half of the screen. not sure what can be done about that.
5. sound! lots of casters weren't balanced/too quiet/and the sound always seemed to be ~10 seconds behind the video feed when it swapped to casters. it's been that way at every i-series i can remember so i'm not sure why it's not been addressed.
6. there should have been scores and recaps of the games that weren't casted, especially on the first day when fan favorite teams were playing offscreen. there was a lot of downtime but most of it was filled with fidget spinner advertisements. however that would've been a fair bit of extra work.
overall the hud took up so much less space than before in my opinion. and the espn-style nuze segment was an all-time lan highlight.
by the way, "suspicious play from suspicious turtle" is the funniest thing i've ever heard a caster say.
1. also noticed the in-game camerawork seemed to miss more than past years. and when the caster says "i'm going to watch [player] in this midfight" the observer should too. it's such a jarring feeling to think, oh hell yeah, let's watch kaptain like war said, and then remember that we are powerless and can't.
2. the camera-in-camera thing was nice but a lot of the time you guys should have considered putting the spy/sniper/player behind on *the main screen* and the stalemate spamfest on the little one
3. knowing what weapons everyone has out is completely unnecessary...?
4. one guy used a rocket launcher that had a skull flopping around, couldn't see anything on the bottom half of the screen. not sure what can be done about that.
5. sound! lots of casters weren't balanced/too quiet/and the sound always seemed to be ~10 seconds behind the video feed when it swapped to casters. it's been that way at every i-series i can remember so i'm not sure why it's not been addressed.
6. there should have been scores and recaps of the games that weren't casted, especially on the first day when fan favorite teams were playing offscreen. there was a lot of downtime but most of it was filled with fidget spinner advertisements. however that would've been a fair bit of extra work.
overall the hud took up so much less space than before in my opinion. and the espn-style nuze segment was an all-time lan highlight.
by the way, "suspicious play from suspicious turtle" is the funniest thing i've ever heard a caster say.
Arie- Online servers at LAN for the first day again.
- No STVs.
- In-game camera missing too many key moments. Weird considering the experienced observers.
- Audio issues. Picking up stage music, pitch and speed changes.
- No interviews
- No team reaction shots, no roaming camera, just static shots.
- Little connection to the LAN, just some shots of the crowd in front of the screen.
- Picture-in-picture too small, especially the first day.
These are probably my biggest complaints. I'll put my own personal thoughts about what I liked and what I think could use improvement in a spoiler tag since it's paragraphs.
Show Content
The in-game production was fucking great, really good. The out-of-game production was lacking in comparison. Audio issues were abysmal. I don't know how each unique audio issue happened or why they happened. Assuming Kermit was doing audio, I know Kermit had to do casting too because of a no-show caster so I assume somebody might have subbed in for him, but a lot of the audio issues were just super weird or shouldn't have happened. I can't believe the audio issues went all the way until the outro, where it was muted at first so they had to replay it. Roaming cameras or operators that were offered from Multiplay should have been taken more advantage of IMO, especially during grand finals. I know people want to see the game but it doesn't hurt to have maybe a smaller camera in the corner where PiP was or the opposite corner to see a roaming player cam. It helps build personal connection.
There really was little to no personal connection with the LAN or the players this time around, I felt. That's so important with storyline crafting and getting people interested in the people behind the game. I recall someone on the Essentialstf Twitch account saying that they won't do player interviews because they said players would be too tired to give post-game interviews, but I don't know how well that excuse holds up, especially when it was not done pre/post-grand finals. It might have been the format of games but with that much downtime between matches, it wouldn't have hurt to grab a player from the playing team or the last match's team and ask them a few questions.
HUD/OBS feed overlay was the coolest shit. It looked slick, the transitions like winner zooming in were sexy. But there was a lot of information on that screen sometimes. At some point I was really distracted by idle Scouts just swapping through their weapons really fast out of habit in the corner of my eye, and then just tuned out of those weapon graphics to focus on the game. If I had to see weapons, I wouldn't mind the weapons underneath the names like when the stats showed up, rather than right next to the names. Maybe highlight the weapon being used. Split screen was cool when it first happened but then overused later. I also feel like it could look better than being cut down the middle - maybe a separate two-cam overlay so it's not cut right in half or squashed. Player cams were really small, maybe bottom corners suggested earlier if using static cams rather than roaming cams.
All this shit is really cool but it might work best in games like Dota or CS:GO. Now that it's been tried and tested, idk how well it translates to a faster-paced game like TF2. There's a lot happening on screen as is within the game itself. I wonder how well the HUD helped translate the game over to newer spectators let alone older spectators, or how necessary a lot of the extra cool things were without feeling like PGL-inspired Shiny Object Syndrome. As a result of the Shiny Object Syndrome, a lot of the things I mentioned earlier about things like interviews suffered when that would have made so much difference. Still, very cool shit. I just need to think about if it's things that are long-term cool rather than OH SHIT WHAT'S THAT OMFG reactionary short-term cool.
The nuze segments were fucking fantastic, nuze himself was a good fit and he looked so excited to play with the tech. I felt so happy for people cheering him on. The only thing I heard people saying is that they were a little too long, but I quite liked them. If there was room for player interviews, I would not mind them shorter. Analysis and couch segments were good, the talent all did their best and I liked seeing visitors or people not playing like Paddie and Mike on the couch chilling. Black backdrops might not be as good of an idea as they start off as, it was good for i55 due to extra stuff on the background. I heard voices like Getawhale's getting strained on-stage, which is unfortunate. I saw him on couch on the morning of the last day, maybe letting him rest until Grand Finals would have been best and have another analyst like eepily be MC for a bit.
War stepped it up, I've said it before, and I'm really happy he and Kermit got to do grand finals. War's emphasis on storyline and stakes is great too. He still interrupted Kermit a lot, I could catch Kermit talking faster as well as be more direct about analysis whenever he could. That being said, I don't know how committed Kermit was meant to be since he was meant to be doing on audio, but shoutout to him if that's the case. Ombrack and row were also a really good pair, row's play-by-play is also on point and he doesn't miss much. Ombrack's enthusiasm is infectious and charismatic. Turbotabs and Cornpop are the best father-and-son casting duo 2017. I'm thankful for the people who were able to fly out with their own money and volunteer for production, that dedication is always admirable.
[quote=Arie]- Online servers at LAN for the first day again.
- No STVs.
- In-game camera missing too many key moments. Weird considering the experienced observers.
- Audio issues. Picking up stage music, pitch and speed changes.
- No interviews
- No team reaction shots, no roaming camera, just static shots.
- Little connection to the LAN, just some shots of the crowd in front of the screen.
- Picture-in-picture too small, especially the first day.[/quote] These are probably my biggest complaints. I'll put my own personal thoughts about what I liked and what I think could use improvement in a spoiler tag since it's paragraphs.
[spoiler]The in-game production was fucking great, really good. The out-of-game production was lacking in comparison. Audio issues were abysmal. I don't know how each unique audio issue happened or why they happened. Assuming Kermit was doing audio, I know Kermit had to do casting too because of a no-show caster so I assume somebody might have subbed in for him, but a lot of the audio issues were just super weird or shouldn't have happened. I can't believe the audio issues went all the way until the outro, where it was muted at first so they had to replay it. Roaming cameras or operators that were offered from Multiplay should have been taken more advantage of IMO, especially during grand finals. I know people want to see the game but it doesn't hurt to have maybe a smaller camera in the corner where PiP was or the opposite corner to see a roaming player cam. It helps build personal connection.
There really was little to no personal connection with the LAN or the players this time around, I felt. That's so important with storyline crafting and getting people interested in the people behind the game. I recall someone on the Essentialstf Twitch account saying that they won't do player interviews because they said players would be too tired to give post-game interviews, but I don't know how well that excuse holds up, especially when it was not done pre/post-grand finals. It might have been the format of games but with that much downtime between matches, it wouldn't have hurt to grab a player from the playing team or the last match's team and ask them a few questions.
HUD/OBS feed overlay was the coolest shit. It looked slick, the transitions like winner zooming in were sexy. But there was a lot of information on that screen sometimes. At some point I was really distracted by idle Scouts just swapping through their weapons really fast out of habit in the corner of my eye, and then just tuned out of those weapon graphics to focus on the game. If I had to see weapons, I wouldn't mind the weapons underneath the names like when the stats showed up, rather than right next to the names. Maybe highlight the weapon being used. Split screen was cool when it first happened but then overused later. I also feel like it could look better than being cut down the middle - maybe a separate two-cam overlay so it's not cut right in half or squashed. Player cams were really small, maybe bottom corners suggested earlier if using static cams rather than roaming cams.
All this shit is really cool but it might work best in games like Dota or CS:GO. Now that it's been tried and tested, idk how well it translates to a faster-paced game like TF2. There's a lot happening on screen as is within the game itself. I wonder how well the HUD helped translate the game over to newer spectators let alone older spectators, or how necessary a lot of the extra cool things were without feeling like PGL-inspired Shiny Object Syndrome. As a result of the Shiny Object Syndrome, a lot of the things I mentioned earlier about things like interviews suffered when that would have made so much difference. Still, very cool shit. I just need to think about if it's things that are long-term cool rather than OH SHIT WHAT'S THAT OMFG reactionary short-term cool.
The nuze segments were fucking fantastic, nuze himself was a good fit and he looked so excited to play with the tech. I felt so happy for people cheering him on. The only thing I heard people saying is that they were a little too long, but I quite liked them. If there was room for player interviews, I would not mind them shorter. Analysis and couch segments were good, the talent all did their best and I liked seeing visitors or people not playing like Paddie and Mike on the couch chilling. Black backdrops might not be as good of an idea as they start off as, it was good for i55 due to extra stuff on the background. I heard voices like Getawhale's getting strained on-stage, which is unfortunate. I saw him on couch on the morning of the last day, maybe letting him rest until Grand Finals would have been best and have another analyst like eepily be MC for a bit.
War stepped it up, I've said it before, and I'm really happy he and Kermit got to do grand finals. War's emphasis on storyline and stakes is great too. He still interrupted Kermit a lot, I could catch Kermit talking faster as well as be more direct about analysis whenever he could. That being said, I don't know how committed Kermit was meant to be since he was meant to be doing on audio, but shoutout to him if that's the case. Ombrack and row were also a really good pair, row's play-by-play is also on point and he doesn't miss much. Ombrack's enthusiasm is infectious and charismatic. Turbotabs and Cornpop are the best father-and-son casting duo 2017. I'm thankful for the people who were able to fly out with their own money and volunteer for production, that dedication is always admirable. [/spoiler]
Viewer feedback:
+Professor Nuze & strategic analytics. DEFINITELY do more of those.
-Not enough fragmovies in-between matches.
-Obsession with first-person POVs. Sometimes it is healthy to break away from first-person and look at things in third-person to see how each team is positioned and how each player complements the other.
Suggestions:
Deeper insight on the players. TFTV showed analytics of prem players as they waited for matches to start. Who has the better scouts? The better soldiers? What experience do these players have? Are we seeing a case of new talent rising up or of hardened veterans? Have these players won any Insomnias before?
Viewer feedback:
+Professor Nuze & strategic analytics. DEFINITELY do more of those.
-Not enough fragmovies in-between matches.
-Obsession with first-person POVs. Sometimes it is healthy to break away from first-person and look at things in third-person to see how each team is positioned and how each player complements the other.
Suggestions:
Deeper insight on the players. TFTV showed analytics of prem players as they waited for matches to start. Who has the better scouts? The better soldiers? What experience do these players have? Are we seeing a case of new talent rising up or of hardened veterans? Have these players won any Insomnias before?
From playing in the open group -
Would like to have actually played on LAN servers, we had the same problem last year and it was solved then, this year we just had to stick it out
Because seeding it is really hard, a one group swiss system like last year may have been fairer and led to closer games
Apart from that the organisation was great, moving it all over to toornament was a good call and there was some very fun games
From playing in the open group -
Would like to have actually played on LAN servers, we had the same problem last year and it was solved then, this year we just had to stick it out
Because seeding it is really hard, a one group swiss system like last year may have been fairer and led to closer games
Apart from that the organisation was great, moving it all over to toornament was a good call and there was some very fun games
FuxxSuggestions:
Deeper insight on the players. TFTV showed analytics of prem players as they waited for matches to start. Who has the better scouts? The better soldiers? What experience do these players have? Are we seeing a case of new talent rising up or of hardened veterans? Have these players won any Insomnias before?
Just so you're aware they have the option of using these if they like, they're not a tftv exclusive asset. My understanding is that they don't want to use assets other channels use.
[quote=Fuxx]Suggestions:
Deeper insight on the players. TFTV showed analytics of prem players as they waited for matches to start. Who has the better scouts? The better soldiers? What experience do these players have? Are we seeing a case of new talent rising up or of hardened veterans? Have these players won any Insomnias before?[/quote]
Just so you're aware they have the option of using these if they like, they're not a tftv exclusive asset. My understanding is that they don't want to use assets other channels use.
Sometimes the volume was pretty low for the crowd
Sometimes the volume was pretty low for the crowd
Feedback from a viewer:
+ Nuze (underutilized, imo)
+ Picture in picture
+ Player cams
+ Kermit, TurboTabs, WAR, Cornpop were all really enjoyable to listen to
+ eepily analysis
+ couch guests
- No player interviews
- Getawhale had some awkward moments on the couch. Too much fluff/filler/bad jokes sometimes instead of giving the analysts good questions/set-ups
- sometimes the couch guests were talked over too much (eepily)
- the weapons in the HUD were distracting; I don't know if it's possible to just put them in when it's relevant (banners)
- the casters/analysts were badly updated on results in off air games
- Kermit's audio was way too low compared to WAR's
- lack of stats
Feedback from a viewer:
+ Nuze (underutilized, imo)
+ Picture in picture
+ Player cams
+ Kermit, TurboTabs, WAR, Cornpop were all really enjoyable to listen to
+ eepily analysis
+ couch guests
- No player interviews
- Getawhale had some awkward moments on the couch. Too much fluff/filler/bad jokes sometimes instead of giving the analysts good questions/set-ups
- sometimes the couch guests were talked over too much (eepily)
- the weapons in the HUD were distracting; I don't know if it's possible to just put them in when it's relevant (banners)
- the casters/analysts were badly updated on results in off air games
- Kermit's audio was way too low compared to WAR's
- lack of stats
Somehow get the main stage advert/other-game bollocks to shut the fuck up when we're watching casts on the small screen near the casting area.
Somehow get the main stage advert/other-game bollocks to shut the fuck up when we're watching casts on the small screen near the casting area.
Feel like it would've been cool to take team photos and go through the rosters of the teams with the photos up on the stream
Feel like it would've been cool to take team photos and go through the rosters of the teams with the photos up on the stream
Production as a whole was definitely stepped up this lan, but I want to point out there were some serious audio problems this time as well:
-several times it would cut to casters/analysts but there'd be no audio for a good ~10 seconds
-eepily and someone else on the analysts' couch were trying to talk to each other but couldn't hear anything through their headsets, also took quite a while for this issue to be resolved
-closing montage played for almost 30 seconds completely silently before it was restarted
-crowd noise was almost totally filtered out, made the crowd sound like 20 people, killing the mood in a high intensity lan
-zero crowd reaction could be heard the entire lan because of this
-also caused it to be super awkward when getawhale would call for applause but almost no noise was being heard
-compare the final moment of i61 (clip 1) (clip 2) to the final moments of Rewind Lan or at i58 and you can see how poor the audio was in comparison
Production as a whole was definitely stepped up this lan, but I want to point out there were some serious audio problems this time as well:
-several times it would cut to casters/analysts but there'd be no audio for a good ~10 seconds
-eepily and someone else on the analysts' couch were trying to talk to each other but couldn't hear anything through their headsets, also took quite a while for this issue to be resolved
-closing montage played for almost 30 seconds completely silently before it was restarted
-crowd noise was almost totally filtered out, made the crowd sound like 20 people, killing the mood in a high intensity lan
-zero crowd reaction could be heard the entire lan because of this
-also caused it to be super awkward when getawhale would call for applause but almost no noise was being heard
-compare the final moment of i61 [url=https://clips.twitch.tv/WrongToughPigeonPJSalt](clip 1)[/url] [url=https://clips.twitch.tv/FairBlazingOxDxAbomb](clip 2)[/url] to the final moments of [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO-8skO6Ir0&feature=youtu.be&t=3h32m16s]Rewind Lan[/url] or at [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfUg6KC1Q1c&feature=youtu.be&t=4h8m33s]i58[/url] and you can see how poor the audio was in comparison
Darkdwarf+ Nuze (underutilized, imo)
The crew wanted me to do it from the start of the event pretty much, but I wasn't comfortable doing it with the set up we had initially because I knew it would've limited the quality of segment. As per my request, they set up another spec PC for my use which allowed me to analyse how I like to, and it was only once I thought I could do it properly (in time for UBF) that we used it on stream.
I would've liked to have done it earlier and more often, but given the state of my voice this weekend and the time it took to plan the actual segment (I hadn't seen the interface prior to the event), I felt that this was all I could manage. I would expect that in future events I'll be able to do this much more.
[quote=Darkdwarf]
+ Nuze [b](underutilized, imo)[/b]
[/quote]
The crew wanted me to do it from the start of the event pretty much, but I wasn't comfortable doing it with the set up we had initially because I knew it would've limited the quality of segment. As per my request, they set up another spec PC for my use which allowed me to analyse how I like to, and it was only once I thought I could do it properly (in time for UBF) that we used it on stream.
I would've liked to have done it earlier and more often, but given the state of my voice this weekend and the time it took to plan the actual segment (I hadn't seen the interface prior to the event), I felt that this was all I could manage. I would expect that in future events I'll be able to do this much more.
nuzeDarkdwarf+ Nuze (underutilized, imo)
The crew wanted me to do it from the start of the event pretty much, but I wasn't comfortable doing it with the set up we had initially because I knew it would've limited the quality of segment. As per my request, they set up another spec PC for my use which allowed me to analyse how I like to, and it was only once I thought I could do it properly (in time for UBF) that we used it on stream.
I would've liked to have done it earlier and more often, but given the state of my voice this weekend and the time it took to plan the actual segment (I hadn't seen the interface prior to the event), I felt that this was all I could manage. I would expect that in future events I'll be able to do this much more.
Sounds altogether very reasonable. Looking forward to more of the segment at future events. :)
[quote=nuze][quote=Darkdwarf]
+ Nuze [b](underutilized, imo)[/b]
[/quote]
The crew wanted me to do it from the start of the event pretty much, but I wasn't comfortable doing it with the set up we had initially because I knew it would've limited the quality of segment. As per my request, they set up another spec PC for my use which allowed me to analyse how I like to, and it was only once I thought I could do it properly (in time for UBF) that we used it on stream.
I would've liked to have done it earlier and more often, but given the state of my voice this weekend and the time it took to plan the actual segment (I hadn't seen the interface prior to the event), I felt that this was all I could manage. I would expect that in future events I'll be able to do this much more.[/quote]
Sounds altogether very reasonable. Looking forward to more of the segment at future events. :)
From a viewer POV,
+ Weapon icons of the HUD
+ Split cam for rollouts
- The uber percentage on the HUD was barely visible making it a struggle to see
- Lack of Stats
- Not splitting the streams in different Matches (see TFTV i52 - i55 for reference)
- No second Stream for less important matches (See i55)
- No real way of knowing the results of the non streamed matches
From a viewer POV,
+ Weapon icons of the HUD
+ Split cam for rollouts
- The uber percentage on the HUD was barely visible making it a struggle to see
- Lack of Stats
- Not splitting the streams in different Matches (see TFTV i52 - i55 for reference)
- No second Stream for less important matches (See i55)
- No real way of knowing the results of the non streamed matches
Hey guys, my name is Adam and I was basically the main sound guy for most of the tournament, I wanted to take some time to address the audio issues and since some people mentioned them in this thread I thought I'd do it here, I’ll put the bulk of it as a spoiler and then wrap up at the end.
Show Content
I guess I'll get the elephant in the room out of the way first and talk about the robot/smorc voices problem, I think I'll remember that for the rest of my career in sound honestly. What kind of confused us was the sound was totally fine out of the mixing desk, it was lucky that I decided to monitor the sound out of the PA system that I even noticed it happened because Jon who was listening through the talkback didn't notice it at all. Once we'd realised that it wasn't a hardware issue and something related to vMix we worked to try and figure out what it was, originally we thought it might have been the CPU so we checked task manager and it was indeed running on max so we turned off Multicorder which would have allowed us to record video footage from the inputs that weren't showed on stream (to catch War jumping up or Getawhale on the couch reacting to something etc.) which is a shame to have lost that, that didn't fix the issue immediately so we determined the only way to apply the fix was to restart the stream so we had to endure the issue for the rest of the current match, however it also happened on the sunday where we weren't even using multicorder so something else had to be the issue. The only thing we can pin it down to is we opened up discord on the production PC both times it happened to send some data to Weatherman Nuze, if I was to guess what the issue was I would say it was either a sample rate issue, the stream was running at 48kHz and it's possible discord wanted to force the PC to run differently, or a driver issue with the M-Audio interface we were using's drivers and Windows 10. I've had similar issues before which I believe was due to a mix of these problems,
where the audio would just slowly dropping in pitch I was also using an M-Audio interface with Windows 10 back then so I wouldn't be surprised if these issues are linked, the problem also started when I was using a program which required me to change the sample rate. Anyway, ever since we stopped using discord on that machine the issue stopped.
The second main audio issue was background noise, unfortunately it doesn't seem like this will go away until Multiplay finally understand and give us a location without a Nintendo stand constantly blaring out right next to the production area. The main stage didn't really help either as most of the time we were battling with them while they were running events on it, however they also decided to blast out music inbetween segments and even decided to broadcast an entire movie during our casts! For now there are measures we can take that we will absolutely try and work on implementing (some more aggressive than others such as noise gates etc. which I wouldn't want to do in a live setting) but it'll never go away completely imo, especially since we added things such as the crowd mic for the Saturday, which we unfortunately had to give back on the Sunday, though it was used for the grand finals, and I'll talk about that a little later.
We had to battle with mixing because the stream and the PA were using the exact same mix, with a little more time to set up we could've worked out a way to separate them with what we had, will be fixed for LAN I promise! However it led to things like the game audio being low during the grand finals because it was too loud according to stream viewers etc. Eventually we found a happy medium and I could leave the audio mixed how it was for the rest of the match. I understand sometimes casters/analysts were quiet compared to others, everybody has different voices and some are naturally quieter than others, plus as events like these go on voices become weaker and weaker and sometimes it’s not so much a volume issue but a clarity one, this all meant we had to constantly battle with which voices were going to be loud compared to others, a cool way to have fixed this was to implement the mixer that we were using’s digital features and save level presets for each individual caster pairing so we know.
vMix gave us some other issues separate from the pitch issue, sometimes vMix would randomly stop outputting audio and we'd have to reset the audio source to get it to work, the times the audio was randomly muted when it shouldn't have been were mostly down to that issue. The audio sync issue was also apparently due to how vMix encodes SDI inputs, I'm sure one of the video guys could explain more about that, we could have taken Multiplay's approach by delaying the audio a tad but that can cause some issues too, which I'll get onto next, also it would have been out of my hands as I was mainly working on the hardware side of the audio.
Finally the stage, I spoke about the echo earlier and oh boy was there a problem during the final, we kept the same production area for the final which meant we had to feed them our audio for the stage PA system and they had to feed us their audio from Getawhale's microphone and the crowd mic, they refused to feed us the crowd mic unless we could ensure it wouldn't be fed back to them which would have required setting up a separate mix just for the stage PA but then let the crowd audio feed to the stream bla bla bla, and we found this out during the match too so it was way to short notice to set up, eventually they agreed to give us the crowd audio after the match when all that was being outputted to stream was the audio from the main stage any way so we could mute all of our audio.
Apart from those there were the obvious shaky moments that happen at LAN specifically, being the only audio guy on duty for the majority of the weekend meant it was possible to be distracted by a question/complaint from another crew member and missing an audio cue (thanks to WAR for shouting at me from the audience that one time), also for some reason (probably because of how different the couch lineup was for the final day with Getawhale doing stage host duty for most of the day and Eerily and Turbo filling in, and whatever happened to make WAR’s interview with Funs and Hildreth on one couch etc.) the microphones for the couch analysis got mixed up therefore when I was transitioning to what I thought would be Mic 1 and 2, it turned out to be 2 and 3, etc.
TL;DR
- Discord was apparently the culprit for the pitch issues, the reason it took so long to fix them both times was because it required a stream restart and we didn’t want to do it during the match
- Background noise was an issue throughout the weekend mostly because of having the main stage about a 100 meters away from us almost always playing music/holding an event or even showing a movie at very high volume, coupled with the fact we had a Nintendo stand about 10 meters away from our production area doing the same.
- We didn’t make it easy on ourselves when it came to mixing audio levels because we had the exact same mix outputting to the crowd PA system and the stream. Will be fixed in the future.
- vMix dropped our audio inputs randomly at times and we’d have to re-enable them, I believe we’re looking into possible alternatives that will work better with the hardware we have available.
- The Grand Finals were hosted on the stage which had their own audio team, because of this some things we wanted to do wasn’t possible, I also saw someone mention the very end of the game being underwhelming compared to previous LANs, this was the main reason.
- Human error was obviously a factor and all of us in the team are always working hard to improve.
Thanks for all your feedback, hope you enjoyed the LAN :)
Hey guys, my name is Adam and I was basically the main sound guy for most of the tournament, I wanted to take some time to address the audio issues and since some people mentioned them in this thread I thought I'd do it here, I’ll put the bulk of it as a spoiler and then wrap up at the end.
[spoiler]I guess I'll get the elephant in the room out of the way first and talk about the robot/smorc voices problem, I think I'll remember that for the rest of my career in sound honestly. What kind of confused us was the sound was totally fine out of the mixing desk, it was lucky that I decided to monitor the sound out of the PA system that I even noticed it happened because Jon who was listening through the talkback didn't notice it at all. Once we'd realised that it wasn't a hardware issue and something related to vMix we worked to try and figure out what it was, originally we thought it might have been the CPU so we checked task manager and it was indeed running on max so we turned off Multicorder which would have allowed us to record video footage from the inputs that weren't showed on stream (to catch War jumping up or Getawhale on the couch reacting to something etc.) which is a shame to have lost that, that didn't fix the issue immediately so we determined the only way to apply the fix was to restart the stream so we had to endure the issue for the rest of the current match, however it also happened on the sunday where we weren't even using multicorder so something else had to be the issue. The only thing we can pin it down to is we opened up discord on the production PC both times it happened to send some data to Weatherman Nuze, if I was to guess what the issue was I would say it was either a sample rate issue, the stream was running at 48kHz and it's possible discord wanted to force the PC to run differently, or a driver issue with the M-Audio interface we were using's drivers and Windows 10. I've had similar issues before which I believe was due to a mix of these problems, [url=https://twitter.com/ArchRhythm/status/738851586450063360]where the audio would just slowly dropping in pitch[/url] I was also using an M-Audio interface with Windows 10 back then so I wouldn't be surprised if these issues are linked, the problem also started when I was using a program which required me to change the sample rate. Anyway, ever since we stopped using discord on that machine the issue stopped.
The second main audio issue was background noise, unfortunately it doesn't seem like this will go away until Multiplay finally understand and give us a location without a Nintendo stand constantly blaring out right next to the production area. The main stage didn't really help either as most of the time we were battling with them while they were running events on it, however they also decided to blast out music inbetween segments and even decided to broadcast an entire movie during our casts! For now there are measures we can take that we will absolutely try and work on implementing (some more aggressive than others such as noise gates etc. which I wouldn't want to do in a live setting) but it'll never go away completely imo, especially since we added things such as the crowd mic for the Saturday, which we unfortunately had to give back on the Sunday, though it was used for the grand finals, and I'll talk about that a little later.
We had to battle with mixing because the stream and the PA were using the exact same mix, with a little more time to set up we could've worked out a way to separate them with what we had, will be fixed for LAN I promise! However it led to things like the game audio being low during the grand finals because it was too loud according to stream viewers etc. Eventually we found a happy medium and I could leave the audio mixed how it was for the rest of the match. I understand sometimes casters/analysts were quiet compared to others, everybody has different voices and some are naturally quieter than others, plus as events like these go on voices become weaker and weaker and sometimes it’s not so much a volume issue but a clarity one, this all meant we had to constantly battle with which voices were going to be loud compared to others, a cool way to have fixed this was to implement the mixer that we were using’s digital features and save level presets for each individual caster pairing so we know.
vMix gave us some other issues separate from the pitch issue, sometimes vMix would randomly stop outputting audio and we'd have to reset the audio source to get it to work, the times the audio was randomly muted when it shouldn't have been were mostly down to that issue. The audio sync issue was also apparently due to how vMix encodes SDI inputs, I'm sure one of the video guys could explain more about that, we could have taken Multiplay's approach by delaying the audio a tad but that can cause some issues too, which I'll get onto next, also it would have been out of my hands as I was mainly working on the hardware side of the audio.
Finally the stage, I spoke about the echo earlier and oh boy was there a problem during the final, we kept the same production area for the final which meant we had to feed them our audio for the stage PA system and they had to feed us their audio from Getawhale's microphone and the crowd mic, they refused to feed us the crowd mic unless we could ensure it wouldn't be fed back to them which would have required setting up a separate mix just for the stage PA but then let the crowd audio feed to the stream bla bla bla, and we found this out during the match too so it was way to short notice to set up, eventually they agreed to give us the crowd audio after the match when all that was being outputted to stream was the audio from the main stage any way so we could mute all of our audio.
Apart from those there were the obvious shaky moments that happen at LAN specifically, being the only audio guy on duty for the majority of the weekend meant it was possible to be distracted by a question/complaint from another crew member and missing an audio cue (thanks to WAR for shouting at me from the audience that one time), also for some reason (probably because of how different the couch lineup was for the final day with Getawhale doing stage host duty for most of the day and Eerily and Turbo filling in, and whatever happened to make WAR’s interview with Funs and Hildreth on one couch etc.) the microphones for the couch analysis got mixed up therefore when I was transitioning to what I thought would be Mic 1 and 2, it turned out to be 2 and 3, etc. [/spoiler]
TL;DR
- Discord was apparently the culprit for the pitch issues, the reason it took so long to fix them both times was because it required a stream restart and we didn’t want to do it during the match
- Background noise was an issue throughout the weekend mostly because of having the main stage about a 100 meters away from us almost always playing music/holding an event or even showing a movie at very high volume, coupled with the fact we had a Nintendo stand about 10 meters away from our production area doing the same.
- We didn’t make it easy on ourselves when it came to mixing audio levels because we had the exact same mix outputting to the crowd PA system and the stream. Will be fixed in the future.
- vMix dropped our audio inputs randomly at times and we’d have to re-enable them, I believe we’re looking into possible alternatives that will work better with the hardware we have available.
- The Grand Finals were hosted on the stage which had their own audio team, because of this some things we wanted to do wasn’t possible, I also saw someone mention the very end of the game being underwhelming compared to previous LANs, this was the main reason.
- Human error was obviously a factor and all of us in the team are always working hard to improve.
Thanks for all your feedback, hope you enjoyed the LAN :)