mindlessly snipe -> ctf_2fort / cp_orange

what happened to extv servers

Headshot-only sniper would be really cool. I never play sniper in DM cause I always feel like a shitlord when I accidentally hit a bodyshot.

or can someone update the extv servers??? ive resorted to awping in cs dm, it's good but not the same :(

i dunno there's just nothing like dm sniping it's nice spawning RIGHT INTO COMBAT instead of walking to the game, and the players are actually GOOD

Use Scout so you dont just go for bodyshots

Shrugger may or may not have convinced me to at least consider adding back sniper (with the headshot only plugin) at ETS.

if you decide to not do it for that, then do it for the sake of practicing with smg

I think sniper (headshot only) would be fine in fog's servers, but only if another couple slots were added to each server. If it's 4v4, but one team has a sniper, that won't be much fun. 5v5 when one team has a sniper is much better.

Please add it. Having to snipe in pubs just to practice is gay.

You don't like sniping against people who fakescope 50 times and jump after firing??

Is it possible to force a feign death to players? I think it'd be cool if you couldn't actually kill anyone with the sniper rifle who's beyond say 750 hammer units and instead get ubered or something so people fighting halfway across the map don't have to deal with it. Basically the plugin lets people get the headshot kill satisfaction, but other players don't have to deal with dying randomly. And close range headshots within the 512 range will actually kill the person since at that point it's much like any other DM situation. It'd be interesting at the very least.

why not just die->respawn
2complicated

What's your threshold for complication?

I mean no bodyshot makes the hs+bodyshot not work against soldiers, which is arguably a fair kill. And a shot disappearing isn't intuitive.

but.. sniper still have smg
and someone need to write a plugin for the feign death

Don't care what you do about sniper, but headshot only teaches bad habits. Every time I see somebody in a pug/match sniping and they miss the med because they were going for a headshot instead of taking the bodyshot.. I die a bit inside.

the reason for the headshot only plugin is to make it less dumb being bodyshot from across the map. getting full ammo and half health every kill teaches horrible habits as well in dm but it doesn't matter. it isn't a real game or a pug, it's DeathMatch

when i tried out for my hl team for s6 the team leader told me to go for headshots less which i thought was weird but then i started to think about it more

Technically, it doesn't make it any less dumb, it just makes it impossible. And I still think it's just as annoying to get headshot halfway across the map considering you're still losing HP/dying.

I don't understand why people hate sniper in DM.

If you hit your shots when you should be hitting your shots, why does it matter if you die? Isn't DM about hitting your shots?

Getting 2 shot by a scout that spawned behind you is dumb too, but only if you actually care about dying or k/d in DM. Which you shouldn't, imo.

It's the fundamental issue with sniper, but exemplified if the sniper is really good. Read the TF2 blog post, it explains it pretty well. Getting spawned on from behind at least lets you react (since it takes two shots), even if its a futile reaction.

http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2477

People who snipe in dm wastes everyone's time. Even if it's only headshots only, nobody needs practice fighting a sniper. In a 4v4, a sniper would basically mean you only have 3 people to practice dming against.

It's super annoying getting killed by someone you had no chance of killing because he's across the map from you. Seriously, if you want to snipe, go play in extv and leave fog's alone.

Also, sticky jumper turned stickybomb laucher doesn't have the 4 sticky limit.

Nerd essay, but I think I should explain why 8 stickies and sniper is bad for DM in the first place.

#1) You learn nothing when you get killed by a long range headshot, bodyshot, or sticky trap in DM. When you're playing scout, demo, or soldier, you're not playing to check sticky spots. You can shut down a window or pathway as demo and instakill someone. Every other class generally takes at least two shots to kill. It forces zoning in DM, which really doesn't work. And in the end, you feel cheated in the engagement. There's nothing you could have practically done against 3 stickies that you had no clue were there or a sniper you can't kill halfway across the map.

#2) Sniping only favors the sniper. When you play DM as scout, soldier, or demo, did you join that server to get used to getting shot by a sniper? Are you trying to practice your DM skills against sniper? Chances are it's a no. You joined DM to fight scouts, soldiers, and demos. Nobody joins DM to practice killing snipers except snipers themselves. On the other hand, snipers benefit from sniping any class. Everybody but the sniper loses in DM. Scouts, soldiers, and demos gain nothing from playing against or with a sniper. There is no real practice gained, no enjoyment gained, and no reason to deal with it. Same with 8 stickies, you aren't joining a server to get used to checking gay sticky spots or trying to run around and away from a stickied area.

EDIT: basically what #23 said.

Holy shit yes thank you shrugger/fog.

It's super annoying to get killed by a Scout from behind but nobody is demanding that Scout be removed from DM. Practicing fighting good snipers is actually a thing. Most people don't know how to do it, not that it's really their fault since most Snipers aren't that good. Soldier's put too much arc in their jumps and think a strafe will save them, and Scouts think that if they just jump when they turn a corner they get a free kill. It's not any different than trying to dodge a Scout's scatter or a Soldier's shotgun, just that the stakes are a bit higher. Except in DM, where you respawn instantly so stupid deaths don't matter.

Spoken like a true DM sniper. By your logic we should add heavy since heavies need to aim and a lot of people don't know how to fight heavies. Maybe add medics too so they can practice surfing and needling since some people will run into them, gotta practice dodging them needles and walking around where the needles are. Add pyro too, since some people don't know how to time rockets or when to switch to shotgun. And spies, not like backstabs matter since you instantly respawn.

i wonder if there could be some plugin for in-depth class limits

like make a special fifth slot that's only for snipers or something, since everyone's complaints about it are that the class is useless and stacks the team against it

please add sniper back, I'm washed up and bad and need to practice sniping in DM to feel good inside about myself again

my self-worth is on the line here, fog

Do you want me to tell you how many good snipers there are in TF2? Probably less than 2% of the people who actually play the class. I don't think you have to worry about getting consistently destroyed by a sniper in DM to the point where you'll have to come up with DM strats to deal with him.

You're giving the class too much credit.

There is value in fighting a good Sniper. If you don't already know that then I don't know how to tell you.

Does it really matter though? The Sniper benefits from it, and if there's benefits to be had then it should be allowed. It doesn't stop you from DMing because of instant respawn, and if only having 3 scouts/soldiers to shoot at ruins your DM experience then I think you're better off doing something else.

And all of that 2% plays comp. So we should ban a class because it's uncommon in real games and then just get shit on by the good ones because we refuse to practice against them?

If you get sniped from across the map, no there isn't anything you could have done to avoid it, just like getting shot in the back by a Scout. But if you're charging down a Sniper and get headshot, you fucked up somewhere, and paid for it as surely as you would have against a Scout or Soldier. Sniping isn't just scope and hope.