tf2 seems fine with it, i dont see how a medic who is better at crossbowing than the other medic effect a teams success over the others.

you're

ill give 20 dollars to the next med who runs any needle gun (preferably overdose) for all of next season

The xbow does just a little too much healing in too little time, like 10 too much. Just to have 10 hp less/ arrow would be interesting to see. But the other end of the spectrum is that it is one of the few redeeming factors to playing med, it gives medics a challenge rather than brainlessly switching healing targets.

make it 50 and you got a deal

the game has been alot more fun with crossbows than before, but damage means nothing because arrows exist

25 thats my final offer

I just want needles to be an option, you know? But that would require nerfs or buffs and hahaha can't count on Valve ever.

Shoutouts to Fragile back in the day being a hipster running crossbow when it was bad.

deal

U wot

Uber is for breaking stalemates. Imagine trying to push into a sentry/heavy without uber. Nobody would ever push if medic was removed

honestly should keep the xbow and remove the auto reload when you swap to another weapon

I dont mind the xbow so much, even when it ruins focus calls but honestly fuck the moving at scout speed thing. If it needs to be in the game at all it should only apply during ubers.

die crossbow

I got 5 frags with them this season.

Does that count?

next season

Pros of crossbow
*makes medic a bit more fun to play (subjective)
*allows medic for some s1k airshots on friendlies OR foes
*allows retard soldiers to get insta 100HP after missplays
Cons of crossbow
*allows retard soldiers to get insta 100HP after missplays
*standing still looks dumb af and is bad for game flow
*unlike the medigun you have to actually aim at the thing you want to heal so you lose awareness of your surroundings
*makes teamfights way longer and more drawn out
*makes calling damage nearly pointless
*makes all the other med primaries "trolling" since they are trash in comparison

twitch.tv/shade

the game is honestly slowed down considerably without bows, at least in my experience without item servers, your soldiers are just less able to sustain fighting or pushing without burst healing

you end up saying fuck healing soldiers and hard tank scouts who expect soldiers to jump but they can't as often

or revert to final boss pocket meta

i didn't quite like either

This thread pops up periodically and it gives me hope for the future.

.

Banning the crossbow is just another scout buff btw

and nerfs every other class so good idea ban crossbow :D

Crossbow heals from 75 to 150 every 1.6 seconds, with the weapon switch speed moved to 0.5 seconds since Tough Break, this means an optimized healing sequence (shoot bolt, switch to beam, heal for .6 seconds, switch to bow, repeat) heals 75+(24*0.6) to 150+(72*0.6) every 1.6 seconds, or 89.4 to 193.2 every 1.6 seconds, or 55.875 to 120.75 per second. 55.875 is 2.328125 times bigger than 24, 120.75 is 1.677084 times bigger than 72.

I'm not making any points with these numbers, I was just wondering what they would be, and this is what I came up with.
I might be wrong, and optimized healing sequence doesn't translate to real world all the time.

My opinion is that the crossbow is fun to use, but too strong of an healing item. Any powerful healing item will favor the defending side over the attacking side, even though the direct effects can be equally shared, and here is why I think so:
- The defending team should be settled in optimal and superior position, whereas the attacking team will be forced through a predictable path and sub-optimal position, giving the defending team an obvious advantage
- From now on, as the attacking team are entering the fight with a disadvantage, any time spent during the fight *should* on average make said disadvantage bigger
- The crossbow (or any powerful healing tool) increases the average time spent fighting
This is how we end up, I think, with teams holding chokes safely and repeatedly attempting big plays to allow for either team to start off with a substantial advantage that would negate the disadvantage of not holding.

The crossbow is probably one of the most fun and rewarding traits of the Medic class, especially since I have no fucking clue what I'm doing, and I do think it's possible to simply tweak the numbers and keep it fun.

shades running needles in scrims let's all use needles now right?

mids without crossbow are frustrating as fuck
mids with crossbow are frustrating as fuck

...what now?

man i hate the passive reload too

ugh everything about the crossbow that's changed has made me mad

it was not great when they released it but it was close to a perfect sidegrade to the overdose after the first time they buffed the reload speed

i get that medic is more boring in an fps sense without the crossbow but there really was a lot of other stuff to manage too

like i mentioned before, positioning was a lot tougher then without the movement buff, plus you had to be a lot more on top of critheals during holds. it also took more decision making to commit to fights because you couldnt just sit back and burst heal your team. maximizing beam range is another skill that seems to have been mostly lost from the streams i watch. it was always impressive to me how meds like fragile would seem to heal from a mile away and not lose the beam constantly

i guess the game is better now for everyone else because fights last longer but as a medic main with generally poor mechanics i vastly prefer how things were

^this minus the during ubers thing
This buff was unnecessary and made med more forgiving and was just as much a buff to the scout (a class that was already borderline OP) as it was to the medic.

shade also runs pan

shade can throw because froyo will still win anyways

That's not going to happen though, there were twice the TF2 players in game before the crossbow was even a thing do you think the remaining players are just here because of one unlock? Give me a break, I seen enough in this scene to know this statement is complete bullshit scaremongering crap invented in people's head to justify keeping an unbalanced unlock given preferential treatment because it's for the Medic.

Last person who told me this was a Medic main who has since quit the game and guess what, Crossbow is still allowed.

In very small amount of cases it may be true that people might want to leave the game if the Crossbow is banned, any player who is only playing the game because they allow a really poorly balanced unlock is probably same type of person who plays on DOTA and their favourite Hero gets nerfed and quit the game. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. TF2 is better if we got people who actually want to adapt to change, improve themselves and become reliant on one weapon. Valve have obviously done a poor job balancing certain unlocks, particularly Medic ones and have made them either the Crossbow or one dimensional (3 different types of syringe guns) but it doesn't change facts pointed out in this discussion.

Do the right thing and address balancing issues seriously by not being inconsistent.

honestly I think this would fix the weapon if it made people not worth arrowing if they just took damage due to crit heals making the arrow do les

Hahahahah