LkSare there any concrete dates on when this might be an actual thing?
No exact dates yet, the team has still got lots of planning and talking to do. So I'd be expecting something like Jan/Feb 2019 as we're reaching the end of the year.
Would you like to see TF2 come to ESL Play?
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
[quote=LkS]are there any concrete dates on when this might be an actual thing?[/quote]
No exact dates yet, the team has still got lots of planning and talking to do. So I'd be expecting something like Jan/Feb 2019 as we're reaching the end of the year.
No exact dates yet, the team has still got lots of planning and talking to do. So I'd be expecting something like Jan/Feb 2019 as we're reaching the end of the year.
Realistically Mitch, what Tf2 needs is more LAN events, what we should be asking is what does the tf2 community need to do in order for you guys to organize one (I think a Chicago LAN would have insane turn out)
Realistically Mitch, what Tf2 needs is more LAN events, what we should be asking is what does the tf2 community need to do in order for you guys to organize one (I think a Chicago LAN would have insane turn out)
if you do this ill hit the whip AND the nae nae on stream
if you do this ill hit the whip AND the nae nae on stream
lucrativeRealistically Mitch, what Tf2 needs is more LAN events, what we should be asking is what does the tf2 community need to do in order for you guys to organize one (I think a Chicago LAN would have insane turn out)
all the 5 ping players that wish to go deeper
[quote=lucrative]Realistically Mitch, what Tf2 needs is more LAN events, what we should be asking is what does the tf2 community need to do in order for you guys to organize one (I think a Chicago LAN would have insane turn out)[/quote]
all the 5 ping players that wish to go deeper
all the 5 ping players that wish to go deeper
lucrativeRealistically Mitch, what Tf2 needs is more LAN events, what we should be asking is what does the tf2 community need to do in order for you guys to organize one (I think a Chicago LAN would have insane turn out)
ESL of course run big events like ESL One and the Intel Extreme Masters, but they run through sponsorships.
Sponsorships are based on the amount of participants in the semi-professional scene. I can't give you numbers but we would need more teams than the whole of ESEA TF2 League. So basically, just come and play ESL!
torrit2if you do this ill hit the whip AND the nae nae on stream
Can't wait, send us a gif :)
[quote=lucrative]Realistically Mitch, what Tf2 needs is more LAN events, what we should be asking is what does the tf2 community need to do in order for you guys to organize one (I think a Chicago LAN would have insane turn out)[/quote]
ESL of course run big events like ESL One and the Intel Extreme Masters, but they run through sponsorships.
Sponsorships are based on the amount of participants in the semi-professional scene. I can't give you numbers but we would need more teams than the whole of ESEA TF2 League. So basically, just come and play ESL!
[quote=torrit2]if you do this ill hit the whip AND the nae nae on stream[/quote]
Can't wait, send us a gif :)
ESL of course run big events like ESL One and the Intel Extreme Masters, but they run through sponsorships.
Sponsorships are based on the amount of participants in the semi-professional scene. I can't give you numbers but we would need more teams than the whole of ESEA TF2 League. So basically, just come and play ESL!
[quote=torrit2]if you do this ill hit the whip AND the nae nae on stream[/quote]
Can't wait, send us a gif :)
Probably already been asked but will there be different regions? How would that be handled?
Probably already been asked but will there be different regions? How would that be handled?
tf2 has a much larger than average amount of people that leave the house on weekends and due to that many teams don't want to or can't play on friday, saturday or sunday. a lot of tf2 people have jobs. ventures in tf2 have generally failed due to either scheduling assuming weekends are best for players, or the fact that thanks to our 10 year running ability to play for almost nothing, most tf2 players don't heavily value potential for further growth, if it inconveniences them in the present (ex. bad scheduling time, subpar rules/whitelist/map-pool) - which can make working with tf2 hard.
the good thing about working with tf2 players is that we are really passionate when it comes to fulfilling set goals, like our pretty much annual fundraising for LAN events for tf2 players. following from what lucrative said, I believe if given a set goal, like amount of signups over seasons, or donations tiers to reach higher prizepool, there's a lot of people in the community that would really strive to make it happen. i mean torrit would hit the whip AND the nae nae on stream.
I worry for anything coming new for tf2 because I feel like the good parts of the community are never capitalised on, while the apathetic side gets to show its face all the time. It's really important to capitalise on the people that literally burn holes in their own pockets just to make tf2 that bit better.
If the esl play admins read this I think it's really important for you guys to bring in key members of the community, people that have the contacts + understand the community and what we react well to
e- sry I wrote this while half asleep now it makes sense and I finished some of my thoughts, also please don't do ladder.
tf2 has a much larger than average amount of people that leave the house on weekends and due to that many teams don't want to or can't play on friday, saturday or sunday. a lot of tf2 people have jobs. ventures in tf2 have generally failed due to either scheduling assuming weekends are best for players, or the fact that thanks to our 10 year running ability to play for almost nothing, most tf2 players don't heavily value potential for further growth, if it inconveniences them in the present (ex. bad scheduling time, subpar rules/whitelist/map-pool) - which can make working with tf2 hard.
the good thing about working with tf2 players is that we are really passionate when it comes to fulfilling set goals, like our pretty much annual fundraising for LAN events for tf2 players. following from what lucrative said, I believe if given a set goal, like amount of signups over seasons, or donations tiers to reach higher prizepool, there's a lot of people in the community that would really strive to make it happen. i mean torrit would hit the whip AND the nae nae on stream.
I worry for anything coming new for tf2 because I feel like the good parts of the community are never capitalised on, while the apathetic side gets to show its face all the time. It's really important to capitalise on the people that literally burn holes in their own pockets just to make tf2 that bit better.
If the esl play admins read this I think it's really important for you guys to bring in key members of the community, people that have the contacts + understand the community and what we react well to
e- sry I wrote this while half asleep now it makes sense and I finished some of my thoughts, also please don't do ladder.
the good thing about working with tf2 players is that we are really passionate when it comes to fulfilling set goals, like our pretty much annual fundraising for LAN events for tf2 players. following from what lucrative said, I believe if given a set goal, like amount of signups over seasons, or donations tiers to reach higher prizepool, there's a lot of people in the community that would really strive to make it happen. i mean torrit would hit the whip AND the nae nae on stream.
I worry for anything coming new for tf2 because I feel like the good parts of the community are never capitalised on, while the apathetic side gets to show its face all the time. It's really important to capitalise on the people that literally burn holes in their own pockets just to make tf2 that bit better.
If the esl play admins read this I think it's really important for you guys to bring in key members of the community, people that have the contacts + understand the community and what we react well to
e- sry I wrote this while half asleep now it makes sense and I finished some of my thoughts, also please don't do ladder.
oyeaAny news on this?
#61 "No exact dates yet, the team has still got lots of planning and talking to do. So I'd be expecting something like Jan/Feb 2019 as we're reaching the end of the year."
[quote=oyea]Any news on this?[/quote]
#61 "No exact dates yet, the team has still got lots of planning and talking to do. So I'd be expecting something like Jan/Feb 2019 as we're reaching the end of the year."
#61 "No exact dates yet, the team has still got lots of planning and talking to do. So I'd be expecting something like Jan/Feb 2019 as we're reaching the end of the year."
Joe_ShroeoyeaAny news on this?#61 "No exact dates yet, the team has still got lots of planning and talking to do. So I'd be expecting something like Jan/Feb 2019 as we're reaching the end of the year."
i read that as "no exact dabs yet" haha
[quote=Joe_Shroe][quote=oyea]Any news on this?[/quote]
#61 "No exact dates yet, the team has still got lots of planning and talking to do. So I'd be expecting something like Jan/Feb 2019 as we're reaching the end of the year."[/quote]
i read that as "no exact dabs yet" haha
#61 "No exact dates yet, the team has still got lots of planning and talking to do. So I'd be expecting something like Jan/Feb 2019 as we're reaching the end of the year."[/quote]
i read that as "no exact dabs yet" haha
gemmoyeaSo what exactly would happen if tf2 came to ESL play? Would it be another league or cups or?
it'd be another razer/faceit that people will try out then it'll die
Kill faceit
[quote=gemm][quote=oyea]So what exactly would happen if tf2 came to ESL play? Would it be another league or cups or?[/quote]
it'd be another razer/faceit that people will try out then it'll die[/quote]
Kill faceit
it'd be another razer/faceit that people will try out then it'll die[/quote]
Kill faceit
Hi all,
I thought I should just provide a quick update so people don't feel in the dark. We're still waiting to start plans for next year but hope that we should have some more news out by early February if all goes smoothly.
ESL's only complication at the moment is that the feedback you gave in the polls were things that ESL cannot provide straight off the bats. Thing's such as major prize pools and Pro LAN events, these things can't just fall from the sky and cannot be provided unless we have a strong player base in ESL Play cups.
Referencing the ESL structure, we have to start from square one (ESL Open), which means there may be little to no prize pool in events. The admin team will do their best to provide something with what they have (medals or other such things). This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.
On a more positive note, we're looking for staff to come onboard with ESL to get this kickstarted! If you have an interest in assisting us in making ESL TF2 happen feel free to apply. When signing up, type in Team Fortress 2 in the new game/mod section.
I hope we're all on the same page so we can go ahead with this, it's going to be an exciting 2019!
Hi all,
I thought I should just provide a quick update so people don't feel in the dark. We're still waiting to start plans for next year but hope that we should have some more news out by early February if all goes smoothly.
ESL's only complication at the moment is that the feedback you gave in the polls were things that ESL cannot provide straight off the bats. Thing's such as major prize pools and Pro LAN events, these things can't just fall from the sky and cannot be provided unless we have a strong player base in ESL Play cups.
Referencing the [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/907765/would-you-like-to-see-tf2-come-to-esl-play]ESL structure[/url], we have to start from square one ([i]ESL Open[/i]), which means there may be little to no prize pool in events. The admin team will do their best to provide something with what they have ([i]medals or other such things[/i]). This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.
On a more positive note, [b]we're looking for staff[/b] to come onboard with ESL to get this kickstarted! If you have an interest in assisting us in making ESL TF2 happen [url=https://play.eslgaming.com/global/join-the-staff]feel free to apply[/url]. When signing up, type in [i]Team Fortress 2[/i] in the new game/mod section.
I hope we're all on the same page so we can go ahead with this, it's going to be an exciting 2019!
I thought I should just provide a quick update so people don't feel in the dark. We're still waiting to start plans for next year but hope that we should have some more news out by early February if all goes smoothly.
ESL's only complication at the moment is that the feedback you gave in the polls were things that ESL cannot provide straight off the bats. Thing's such as major prize pools and Pro LAN events, these things can't just fall from the sky and cannot be provided unless we have a strong player base in ESL Play cups.
Referencing the [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/907765/would-you-like-to-see-tf2-come-to-esl-play]ESL structure[/url], we have to start from square one ([i]ESL Open[/i]), which means there may be little to no prize pool in events. The admin team will do their best to provide something with what they have ([i]medals or other such things[/i]). This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.
On a more positive note, [b]we're looking for staff[/b] to come onboard with ESL to get this kickstarted! If you have an interest in assisting us in making ESL TF2 happen [url=https://play.eslgaming.com/global/join-the-staff]feel free to apply[/url]. When signing up, type in [i]Team Fortress 2[/i] in the new game/mod section.
I hope we're all on the same page so we can go ahead with this, it's going to be an exciting 2019!
Mitch_Hi all,
I thought I should just provide a quick update so people don't feel in the dark. We're still waiting to start plans for next year but hope that we should have some more news out by early February if all goes smoothly.
ESL's only complication at the moment is that the feedback you gave in the polls were things that ESL cannot provide straight off the bats. Thing's such as major prize pools and Pro LAN events, these things can't just fall from the sky and cannot be provided unless we have a strong player base in ESL Play cups.
Referencing the ESL structure, we have to start from square one (ESL Open), which means there may be little to no prize pool in events. The admin team will do their best to provide something with what they have (medals or other such things). This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.
On a more positive note, we're looking for staff to come onboard with ESL to get this kickstarted! If you have an interest in assisting us in making ESL TF2 happen feel free to apply. When signing up, type in Team Fortress 2 in the new game/mod section.
I hope we're all on the same page so we can go ahead with this, it's going to be an exciting 2019!
hype!
[quote=Mitch_]Hi all,
I thought I should just provide a quick update so people don't feel in the dark. We're still waiting to start plans for next year but hope that we should have some more news out by early February if all goes smoothly.
ESL's only complication at the moment is that the feedback you gave in the polls were things that ESL cannot provide straight off the bats. Thing's such as major prize pools and Pro LAN events, these things can't just fall from the sky and cannot be provided unless we have a strong player base in ESL Play cups.
Referencing the [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/907765/would-you-like-to-see-tf2-come-to-esl-play]ESL structure[/url], we have to start from square one ([i]ESL Open[/i]), which means there may be little to no prize pool in events. The admin team will do their best to provide something with what they have ([i]medals or other such things[/i]). This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.
On a more positive note, [b]we're looking for staff[/b] to come onboard with ESL to get this kickstarted! If you have an interest in assisting us in making ESL TF2 happen [url=https://play.eslgaming.com/global/join-the-staff]feel free to apply[/url]. When signing up, type in [i]Team Fortress 2[/i] in the new game/mod section.
I hope we're all on the same page so we can go ahead with this, it's going to be an exciting 2019![/quote]
hype!
I thought I should just provide a quick update so people don't feel in the dark. We're still waiting to start plans for next year but hope that we should have some more news out by early February if all goes smoothly.
ESL's only complication at the moment is that the feedback you gave in the polls were things that ESL cannot provide straight off the bats. Thing's such as major prize pools and Pro LAN events, these things can't just fall from the sky and cannot be provided unless we have a strong player base in ESL Play cups.
Referencing the [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/907765/would-you-like-to-see-tf2-come-to-esl-play]ESL structure[/url], we have to start from square one ([i]ESL Open[/i]), which means there may be little to no prize pool in events. The admin team will do their best to provide something with what they have ([i]medals or other such things[/i]). This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.
On a more positive note, [b]we're looking for staff[/b] to come onboard with ESL to get this kickstarted! If you have an interest in assisting us in making ESL TF2 happen [url=https://play.eslgaming.com/global/join-the-staff]feel free to apply[/url]. When signing up, type in [i]Team Fortress 2[/i] in the new game/mod section.
I hope we're all on the same page so we can go ahead with this, it's going to be an exciting 2019![/quote]
hype!
Is it going to be free? Is it going to have divisions in other regions besides NA?
Is it going to be free? Is it going to have divisions in other regions besides NA?
14thEagleIs it going to be free? Is it going to have divisions in other regions besides NA?
Cups will always be free, and we are still in the process of deciding which regions we want to support but I will let everyone know when I've got more information.
[quote=14thEagle]Is it going to be free? Is it going to have divisions in other regions besides NA?[/quote]
Cups will always be free, and we are still in the process of deciding which regions we want to support but I will let everyone know when I've got more information.
Cups will always be free, and we are still in the process of deciding which regions we want to support but I will let everyone know when I've got more information.
as much as i'd like for this to evolve, pragmatically, i can't say i'm optimistic about ESL if there won't be a prizepool. 6s already has ESEA for NA so there's little chance ESL will grow in NA, because ESEA will have money and ESL won't. FACEIT already tried hosting cups and they have failed to grow as a hallmark of competitive TF2. i hope i'm wrong but it's kinda disappointing. i don't blame ESL for not having the confidence to invest prizepool money for 6s though.
as much as i'd like for this to evolve, pragmatically, i can't say i'm optimistic about ESL if there won't be a prizepool. 6s already has ESEA for NA so there's little chance ESL will grow in NA, because ESEA will have money and ESL won't. FACEIT already tried hosting cups and they have failed to grow as a hallmark of competitive TF2. i hope i'm wrong but it's kinda disappointing. i don't blame ESL for not having the confidence to invest prizepool money for 6s though.
Mitch_Hi all,
I thought I should just provide a quick update so people don't feel in the dark. We're still waiting to start plans for next year but hope that we should have some more news out by early February if all goes smoothly.
ESL's only complication at the moment is that the feedback you gave in the polls were things that ESL cannot provide straight off the bats. Thing's such as major prize pools and Pro LAN events, these things can't just fall from the sky and cannot be provided unless we have a strong player base in ESL Play cups.
Referencing the ESL structure, we have to start from square one (ESL Open), which means there may be little to no prize pool in events. The admin team will do their best to provide something with what they have (medals or other such things). This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.
On a more positive note, we're looking for staff to come onboard with ESL to get this kickstarted! If you have an interest in assisting us in making ESL TF2 happen feel free to apply. When signing up, type in Team Fortress 2 in the new game/mod section.
I hope we're all on the same page so we can go ahead with this, it's going to be an exciting 2019!
Referencing the ESL structure, we have to start from square one (ESL Open), which means there may be little to no prize pool in events. The admin team will do their best to provide something with what they have (medals or other such things). This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.
This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.
but if the community commits
community commits
COMMUNITY COMMITS
THIS IS BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. TF2 HAS A HISTORY OF NOT COMMITTING TO CHANGE, DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN AND SLIP THROUGH OUR GRASP
[quote=Mitch_]Hi all,
I thought I should just provide a quick update so people don't feel in the dark. We're still waiting to start plans for next year but hope that we should have some more news out by early February if all goes smoothly.
ESL's only complication at the moment is that the feedback you gave in the polls were things that ESL cannot provide straight off the bats. Thing's such as major prize pools and Pro LAN events, these things can't just fall from the sky and cannot be provided unless we have a strong player base in ESL Play cups.
Referencing the [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/907765/would-you-like-to-see-tf2-come-to-esl-play]ESL structure[/url], we have to start from square one ([i]ESL Open[/i]), which means there may be little to no prize pool in events. The admin team will do their best to provide something with what they have ([i]medals or other such things[/i]). This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.
On a more positive note, [b]we're looking for staff[/b] to come onboard with ESL to get this kickstarted! If you have an interest in assisting us in making ESL TF2 happen [url=https://play.eslgaming.com/global/join-the-staff]feel free to apply[/url]. When signing up, type in [i]Team Fortress 2[/i] in the new game/mod section.
I hope we're all on the same page so we can go ahead with this, it's going to be an exciting 2019![/quote]
[quote]Referencing the [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/907765/would-you-like-to-see-tf2-come-to-esl-play]ESL structure[/url], we have to start from square one ([i]ESL Open[/i]), which means there may be little to no prize pool in events. The admin team will do their best to provide something with what they have ([i]medals or other such things[/i]). This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.[/quote]
[quote]This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.[/quote]
[quote]but if the community commits[/quote]
[quote]community commits[/quote]
[quote][u][b]COMMUNITY COMMITS[/b][/u][/quote]
THIS IS BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. TF2 HAS A HISTORY OF NOT COMMITTING TO CHANGE, DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN AND SLIP THROUGH OUR GRASP
I thought I should just provide a quick update so people don't feel in the dark. We're still waiting to start plans for next year but hope that we should have some more news out by early February if all goes smoothly.
ESL's only complication at the moment is that the feedback you gave in the polls were things that ESL cannot provide straight off the bats. Thing's such as major prize pools and Pro LAN events, these things can't just fall from the sky and cannot be provided unless we have a strong player base in ESL Play cups.
Referencing the [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/907765/would-you-like-to-see-tf2-come-to-esl-play]ESL structure[/url], we have to start from square one ([i]ESL Open[/i]), which means there may be little to no prize pool in events. The admin team will do their best to provide something with what they have ([i]medals or other such things[/i]). This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.
On a more positive note, [b]we're looking for staff[/b] to come onboard with ESL to get this kickstarted! If you have an interest in assisting us in making ESL TF2 happen [url=https://play.eslgaming.com/global/join-the-staff]feel free to apply[/url]. When signing up, type in [i]Team Fortress 2[/i] in the new game/mod section.
I hope we're all on the same page so we can go ahead with this, it's going to be an exciting 2019![/quote]
[quote]Referencing the [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/907765/would-you-like-to-see-tf2-come-to-esl-play]ESL structure[/url], we have to start from square one ([i]ESL Open[/i]), which means there may be little to no prize pool in events. The admin team will do their best to provide something with what they have ([i]medals or other such things[/i]). This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.[/quote]
[quote]This may sound bad at first but if the community commits to playing in the cups, we can move our way up to the ESL Major stage which ensures prize pools and a possible league and so forth.[/quote]
[quote]but if the community commits[/quote]
[quote]community commits[/quote]
[quote][u][b]COMMUNITY COMMITS[/b][/u][/quote]
THIS IS BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. TF2 HAS A HISTORY OF NOT COMMITTING TO CHANGE, DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN AND SLIP THROUGH OUR GRASP
Not sure where the demand for "major prize pool" came from, I might be mistaken but most people would just want any prizepool, as long as it's not minuscule.
In the end, you've kind of put a lot of weight on the participation numbers to cups, I don't know if you've followed the last few years, but those quickly go to shit if the organizers refuse to iterate on important points like separating teams in division, when the matches are played, the general tournament format, etc. People ain't gonna play if it fucking sucks.
Not sure where the demand for "major prize pool" came from, I might be mistaken but most people would just want any prizepool, as long as it's not minuscule.
In the end, you've kind of put a lot of weight on the participation numbers to cups, I don't know if you've followed the last few years, but those quickly go to shit if the organizers refuse to iterate on important points like separating teams in division, when the matches are played, the general tournament format, etc. People ain't gonna play if it fucking sucks.
In the end, you've kind of put a lot of weight on the participation numbers to cups, I don't know if you've followed the last few years, but those quickly go to shit if the organizers refuse to iterate on important points like separating teams in division, when the matches are played, the general tournament format, etc. People ain't gonna play if it fucking sucks.
the question was what tf2 players wanted, i don't think anyone expected lan straight away lol
as twiikuu said i think the best way to keep the cups active and potentially grow them (though having taken part in both the faceit/tftv cups and the essentials monthlies i dont have high hopes for the latter) is to keep evolving and improving them, don't do what faceit did when they release a major platform, have it die in a couple months, then release ANOTHER one (with a lot of help from the community) then have it die again in a few months
the question was what tf2 players wanted, i don't think anyone expected lan straight away lol
as twiikuu said i think the best way to keep the cups active and potentially grow them (though having taken part in both the faceit/tftv cups and the essentials monthlies i dont have high hopes for the latter) is to keep evolving and improving them, don't do what faceit did when they release a major platform, have it die in a couple months, then release ANOTHER one (with a lot of help from the community) then have it die again in a few months
as twiikuu said i think the best way to keep the cups active and potentially grow them (though having taken part in both the faceit/tftv cups and the essentials monthlies i dont have high hopes for the latter) is to keep evolving and improving them, don't do what faceit did when they release a major platform, have it die in a couple months, then release ANOTHER one (with a lot of help from the community) then have it die again in a few months
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