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Changing the meta
posted in Off Topic
1
#1
0 Frags +

Give heavy a energy shield. There scout meta goes bye bye.

Give heavy a energy shield. There scout meta goes bye bye.
2
#2
26 Frags +

https://preview.redd.it/m3c3537zmut21.jpg?auto=webp&s=a5cd4dc977450b863c894d5e6edd89b2f14a317c

[img]https://preview.redd.it/m3c3537zmut21.jpg?auto=webp&s=a5cd4dc977450b863c894d5e6edd89b2f14a317c[/img]
3
#3
32 Frags +

I Love Shooting Shields.

I Love Shooting Shields.
4
#4
10 Frags +

give medic rocket boots

give medic rocket boots
5
#5
0 Frags +

he's already got the fists of steel that should be good enough

just walk into the enemy team no balls...

he's already got the fists of steel that should be good enough

just walk into the enemy team no balls...
6
#6
1 Frags +

give spy a flashbang

give spy a flashbang
7
#7
47 Frags +

Heavy buff idea: gun now costs $3.5 million to shoot for 12 seconds due to inflation.

Heavy buff idea: gun now costs $3.5 million to shoot for 12 seconds due to inflation.
8
#8
-26 Frags +
murkscribeGive heavy a energy shield. There scout meta goes bye bye.

The game you're thinking of is Overwatch.

[quote=murkscribe]Give heavy a energy shield. There scout meta goes bye bye.[/quote]
The game you're thinking of is Overwatch.
9
#9
5 Frags +

What If They Taught The Pyro How To BeatBox

What If They Taught The Pyro How To BeatBox
10
#10
0 Frags +

give me all your money

give me all your money
11
#11
33 Frags +
SetsulmurkscribeGive heavy a energy shield. There scout meta goes bye bye.The game you're thinking of is Overwatch.

german

[quote=Setsul][quote=murkscribe]Give heavy a energy shield. There scout meta goes bye bye.[/quote]
The game you're thinking of is Overwatch.[/quote]
german
12
#12
9 Frags +

they should add jackal snipers from halo 2 to every mid

they should add jackal snipers from halo 2 to every mid
13
#13
-12 Frags +

Real talk, I wonder why the devs never thought of and tested out a energy shield so the heavy can be a tank. It would be like a really interesting concept, even though I know for sure people would hate the shit out of it.

Real talk, I wonder why the devs never thought of and tested out a energy shield so the heavy can be a tank. It would be like a really interesting concept, even though I know for sure people would hate the shit out of it.
14
#14
23 Frags +

This is a good question to ask. I have some ideas for weapons below

PYRO:
weapon: The Airblaster!!!
Description: Airblasts are strong and cheap on fire consumption; Fire is expensive and costs as much as airblasting normally

SCOUT:
weapon: The Sawn Of Shotgun
Description: -1 cap; +25% damage

SPY:
weapon: The Kitchen Cheff Knife
Description: Backstabs the front; facestabs behind

The Soldier:
The hover boots
Description: The soldier hovers on hover boots

The Engineer
The Spy Checker wrench
Description: +100% damage when hitting a disguised spy; downside: it does team damage when you spycheck

Medic:
the dispenser backpack
I don't need or want to explain :)

-VIVA DA LIKO LOKO

This is a good question to ask. I have some ideas for weapons below

PYRO:
weapon: The Airblaster!!!
Description: Airblasts are strong and cheap on fire consumption; Fire is expensive and costs as much as airblasting normally

SCOUT:
weapon: The Sawn Of Shotgun
Description: -1 cap; +25% damage

SPY:
weapon: The Kitchen Cheff Knife
Description: Backstabs the front; facestabs behind

The Soldier:
The hover boots
Description: The soldier hovers on hover boots

The Engineer
The Spy Checker wrench
Description: +100% damage when hitting a disguised spy; downside: it does team damage when you spycheck

Medic:
the dispenser backpack
I don't need or want to explain :)

-VIVA DA LIKO LOKO
15
#15
16 Frags +

https://i.imgur.com/YBfUdtP.png

[img]https://i.imgur.com/YBfUdtP.png[/img]
16
#16
4 Frags +

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▓▓▓▓▓▓█░░░░ Valve, ░░░░░█
▓▓▓▓▓▓█░░░░Add This░░░░█
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17
#17
11 Frags +

We Need Stuns And Ultimates

We Need Stuns And Ultimates
18
#18
13 Frags +

I know people already know this in general, but there are a few concrete reasons why shields are bad/unnecessary:

TF2 is a movement shooter, where knowing how to dodge damage is rewarded by taking less damage. You can already "have a shield" by being good at dodging; scout in particular will always be able to fulfill the "role" of a heavy because it is a class designed around dodging. You don't need a "tank" in the game, since TF2 is not an RPG. Scout can be a tank by being hard to hit, while soldier, through vertical pressure, and demo, through range pressure, can also fulfill the role of a tank by drawing attention and spam away from the rest of the team.

In terms of game design, asking for a shield is like asking for an item that allows soldier to teleport to the skybox. Not only are "shields" already in the game via TF2's movement mechanics, but you'd be replacing an already existing mechanic with a lower-mechanically-oriented alternative, which essentially turns TF2 into a card game or RPG. Powerful things, like being able to get to the skybox as a soldier, or reducing damage (through dodging) on any class, were designed purposefully to be difficult and have a high mechanical skill-ceiling. When you create a less mechanically-oriented item that fulfills the same role as something that could be achieved through FPS mechanics, you are quite literally taking the quality that makes TF2 an FPS out of the game by replacing TF2's emphasis on mechanical skill with a damage multiplier equation. If heavy had a shield, a literal controller player using the shield could have as much impact as any invite player using the shield. No amount of skill would change the fact that the shield reduces x% of damage, in the same way that no amount of skill changes the fact that it's harder to miss than to stay on target with Winston, as clockwork pointed out when he described why Overwatch is not an FPS. Might as well add skill trees and spells at that point.

The notable exception* to the rules I've outlined here is uber. I remember clockwork saying that uber is the "most powerful ult in any game ever," and saying half-seriously that TF2 would be better without ubercharge, but that it's so engrained in the game that we'd never ban it. The reason the devs decided to break the rules of mechanical FPS games and add ubercharge, which is the closest TF2 gets to a card-playing game (we even count cycle lol), was in large part to encourage people to play medic. I think many people dislike playing med in general because, as FPS players, it makes sense that they would prefer classes that are more mechanically-oriented in terms of aim. I can still understand clockwork's point; in comp, where there's no shortage of medics, we might not exactly need something like ubercharge "encouraging" the use of medic. Besides it being hard to imagine what 6s would be like without leapfrogging, I ultimately think TF2 is better with uber as opposed to no uber though, since it does add an extra layer of positional complexity to the game, punishes mistakes on medic (and on all classes in 6s) even more, and does encourage medic play in casual in the way Valve intended when designing the class like 20 years ago. But by adding a shield, what exactly are you encouraging? You are encouraging the player to avoid damage not by using their class's unique movement capabilities, but by sitting in place behind the slowest character in the game. There isn't even a scout meta to kill right now. Soldiers decide games as long as there isn't some hardcarry in the server.

*The other exception worth mentioning is the soldier banners. What I've stated here also applies to them, and is part of the reason why I believe banners have not at all reached their full potential, and will be used a lot in the future. At least the banners' reduction in mechanical skill necessary to achieve greater damage given/less damage taken requires a large time investment, similar to ubercharge, which balances them as weapons.

IF YOU DIDN'T READ: movement > shields

I know people already know this in general, but there are a few concrete reasons why shields are bad/unnecessary:

TF2 is a movement shooter, where knowing how to dodge damage is rewarded by taking less damage. You can already "have a shield" by being good at dodging; scout in particular will always be able to fulfill the "role" of a heavy because it is a class designed around dodging. You don't need a "tank" in the game, since TF2 is not an RPG. Scout can be a tank by being hard to hit, while soldier, through vertical pressure, and demo, through range pressure, can also fulfill the role of a tank by drawing attention and spam away from the rest of the team.

In terms of game design, asking for a shield is like asking for an item that allows soldier to teleport to the skybox. Not only are "shields" already in the game via TF2's movement mechanics, but you'd be replacing an already existing mechanic with a lower-mechanically-oriented alternative, which essentially turns TF2 into a card game or RPG. Powerful things, like being able to get to the skybox as a soldier, or reducing damage (through dodging) on any class, were designed purposefully to be difficult and have a high mechanical skill-ceiling. When you create a less mechanically-oriented item that fulfills the same role as something that could be achieved through FPS mechanics, you are quite literally taking the quality that makes TF2 an FPS out of the game by replacing TF2's emphasis on mechanical skill with a damage multiplier equation. If heavy had a shield, a literal controller player using the shield could have as much impact as any invite player using the shield. No amount of skill would change the fact that the shield reduces x% of damage, in the same way that no amount of skill changes the fact that it's harder to miss than to stay on target with Winston, as clockwork pointed out when he described why Overwatch is not an FPS. Might as well add skill trees and spells at that point.

The notable exception* to the rules I've outlined here is uber. I remember clockwork saying that uber is the "most powerful ult in any game ever," and saying half-seriously that TF2 would be better without ubercharge, but that it's so engrained in the game that we'd never ban it. The reason the devs decided to break the rules of mechanical FPS games and add ubercharge, which is the closest TF2 gets to a card-playing game (we even count cycle lol), was in large part to encourage people to play medic. I think many people dislike playing med in general because, as FPS players, it makes sense that they would prefer classes that are more mechanically-oriented in terms of aim. I can still understand clockwork's point; in comp, where there's no shortage of medics, we might not exactly need something like ubercharge "encouraging" the use of medic. Besides it being hard to imagine what 6s would be like without leapfrogging, I ultimately think TF2 is better with uber as opposed to no uber though, since it does add an extra layer of positional complexity to the game, punishes mistakes on medic (and on all classes in 6s) even more, and does encourage medic play in casual in the way Valve intended when designing the class like 20 years ago. But by adding a shield, what exactly are you encouraging? You are encouraging the player to avoid damage not by using their class's unique movement capabilities, but by sitting in place behind the slowest character in the game. There isn't even a scout meta to kill right now. Soldiers decide games as long as there isn't some hardcarry in the server.

*The other exception worth mentioning is the soldier banners. What I've stated here also applies to them, and is part of the reason why I believe banners have not at all reached their full potential, and will be used a lot in the future. At least the banners' reduction in mechanical skill necessary to achieve greater damage given/less damage taken requires a large time investment, similar to ubercharge, which balances them as weapons.

IF YOU DIDN'T READ: movement > shields
19
#19
8 Frags +

Give Jw props for giving an insighful, logical and insightful response to my half assed meme post.

Give Jw props for giving an insighful, logical and insightful response to my half assed meme post.
20
#20
0 Frags +

Bump. K so the heavy shield idea is absolutely retarded and should never be implemented, so what do you feel like heavy needs a rework and added weapon or core gameplay changes to make heavy less of a one dimensional class and to expand or add a new role? Valve will never give a heavy update so just speculate or give ideas.

Bump. K so the heavy shield idea is absolutely retarded and should never be implemented, so what do you feel like heavy needs a rework and added weapon or core gameplay changes to make heavy less of a one dimensional class and to expand or add a new role? Valve will never give a heavy update so just speculate or give ideas.
21
#21
0 Frags +

heavy grappling hook

heavy grappling hook
22
#22
4 Frags +

ice skates
+10% movement speed
-replaces minigun

ice skates
+10% movement speed
-replaces minigun
23
#23
22 Frags +

add mustard to sandvich

add mustard to sandvich
24
#24
-2 Frags +

Give spy a sapper that can sap people so the game turns into freeze tag idk any freeze tag games so I think I'd like playing the game if this was added because I like freeze tag

Give spy a sapper that can sap people so the game turns into freeze tag idk any freeze tag games so I think I'd like playing the game if this was added because I like freeze tag
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