yeah I bet you're scared huh

*gulp* n-no *sweats*

Me too :)

cry

grow up etc

omg is that John R. Entropy?

No one is forcing you my friend.

If you have an issue with the map there are many channels for you the give feedback. There's a thread on 4 different forums, or you can message me on discord or steam. I have been very active in adjusting to feedback, especially from the cups yllen and I hosted. If you feel like it, get back to me once you have played it once or twice, I'll be all ears.

With that said, if you don't want to play new maps then that's ok and I understand, but that's not an entropy issue.

etf2l is forcing us to have it in da map pool and waste bans in pick/ban :D

u could waste ur bans or spend a little time and learn it better than the guys from the two other prem teams that dont wanna play it in dis thread

maybe they'll waste their bans instead:D

Massive respect to you equal for having the passion and patience for creating a playable map and I'm sure nobody here means it to you personally so I really hope you aren't taking it that way. I would like to see you keep working on it and improving it.

That being said it's not league ready in its current state and at the moment nobody but contrarians want it to be in the pool.

I appreciate that, and no need to worry, I'm not taking it personally.

I am not in charge of a league so I can't know what league ready means, all I can hope to do is make the map as good as I'm capable of. Therefore I would appreciate it if you could provide me with your own opinion on what you think the map is missing, there are many avenues to do so and I'm genuinely keen to hear what you have to tell me. I'm yet to be contacted by anyone.

With all due respect, unless there is some obvious oversight I'm missing. A large group of people, including yourself, are finding things wrong with it without actually having played it yet. I hosted the cups for the map to improve, not to stay the same and while the map is fundamentally the same, I ask for the courtesy to play it at least once or twice and then you can call it anything under the sun.

I don't understand the expectation that a map which is being actively developed (and that nobody knows how to play properly yet) should play as well as maps that have been in the pool for decades in order to get in. For the last 10 years I've played this game every time a new map comes out people complain about it, and new map cups get low attendance.

People's opinions only tend to change after the map has been in the pool for a few seasons- often when there's not been any substantial changes. I think that's just because it takes time (more than one season) playing a map in a proper team environment to actually know how a map will play. It can go the other way too- a lot of people think the snakewater even ubers gun changes the map's gameplay significantly for the worse and it only became common years after the map's release. It's very strange to me that people think a map, especially one that's been in development for as long as entropy, shouldn't be allowed in a season at all when it's pretty much the only way it can be properly tested at this point.

You guys are trying so hard to make this a ‘people dont want to test new maps!’ thing, but as far as I’m aware no one has an issue with sultry being in the map pool. Sure entropy hasn’t been tested at a top prem level for many years but some maps are clearly more ready than others.

Also apologies for the flippant thread equal. I know map making is hard work and I didn’t mean to disrespect that.

Ignoring whether Entropy is "ready" to be played in a season or not, something that seems more concerning and part of a way bigger issue is that League Admins originally tried to bring in 3 new maps while removing Product and Granary. Afaik the idea to replace this many maps for Prem/Div 1 was based on a map poll voted on by players of all divisions which seems very weird to me, as the map pools for Prem/Div 1 and lower divs are different.

Communication between League Admins and Prem teams appears to be lacklustre at best and nonexistent at worst. There is a Prem feedback channel on the ETF2L Discord but it's not being used in any useful way, while there are a lot of shitposts in there, there are a lot of sensible comments being made too. There appears to be a general disconnect between admins and players in what should be a league run by the community for the community and it's not the first time I have noticed this happening. It's just a shame to see.
If I understood the feedback given by people correctly a lot of them would be way happier if there was better admin communication in general and if new maps were introduced gradually over time so teams can actually learn them properly. The way this season's map pool was originally decided just feels like admins were trying to force in too many new maps at once just for the sake of having new maps.

Ye I don't mind new maps, but who's bright fucking idea was it to remove Product? I'll be having a chat with them

it's impossible to not play it
it's literally in the season banner, can't be changed

https://etf2l.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/ETF2L_2023autumn6v61.jpg

Rivka shut the fuck up

i like entropy :-D

Sultry might be "more ready" because it's already seen 3 seasons of league play in NA.

yea big thing being ignored here isnt that entropy is being played over some doodoo map its that admins have taken away granary for like the 500th tkme because it polls poorly with dogshit noob opens. entropy looks like it will play far more normal than gran abd at the same time u will have dickheads going "sigh, we need mals that flow differently guys" but who also hate granary for doing exactly that.

if entropy was replacing reckoner (like sultry is) it would be a lot more stomachable

What I genuinely don’t understand is how people think a map goes from development to “season ready.” There’s experimental map cups and pre season cups hosted consistently in an attempt to gain feedback to progress development, and barely any prem teams play them. The way to collect feedback is by forcing people to play a map, and the only way that’ll happen is by putting it in a season. In order for the map pool to EVER progress past what it is now the admins have to make controversial decisions. If the maps outrageously broken then add the maker on steam and give your feedback with evidence. Change is good, people are always going to complain but I’d rather that than not ever add any new maps in, or only add maps in that have been play tested by NA. Accept that your own experience may suffer temporarily in order to facilitate the future of the game, if you can’t put up with 30-60 mins a week of playing a developmental map that you don’t personally enjoy then you’re selfish and entitled.

EDIT: This isn’t me saying I like entropy or want it in (I couldn’t care less if it is or isn’t), it’s a comment about how little people seem to understand that to make a good map you have to play it, not just in a weekend cup or pug but in consecutive seasons. The first season is never going to be perfect and may not even be good but that’s the sacrifice you make.

I like testing new maps but not when lan has just been announced :(

This is really the problem I have with the map pool. I have nothing against entropy but realistically it will be removed for polish LAN, probably for granary. The ETF2L admins have always had a problem with structuring their seasons around big events.

For example in the season before i63 sunshine was removed from the map pool for cardinal. Then after that season sunshine was added back into the map pool for i63. In the deciding map of the grand final froyotech won 5-0 against se7en on sunshine (this is the last time se7en would ever play froyo).

I don't like that there are asterisks for tournament results because the admins are meddling with the map pool. This isn't CS where there are lans every month, we need to try and make the most of every event and keep the competitive integrity high.

Ok so like, the example of cross region map pool differences effecting that specific LAN is valid. However, I don’t see how all of the European prem teams not playing cp_granary for one season, then assumedly scrimming it before LAN and playing it there has any effect on the competitive integrity of the LAN?

because one map has 10+ years of history and one map has none u nonce

Yeah let’s only play maps with 10 years of history that sounds really exciting, I bet you still wear the same underpants your mum bought you when you were 12 as they “do the job” @mak

cant believe this shit replaced 2fort

yeah but they got cool dinosaurs on them