this is the best hl banlist i've ever seen in my life

They actually listen to the community. It's incredible. Never seen before in HL.

not that bad of a maplist, pretty good whitelist. looking good cevo.

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Are they serious? Are these weapons bugged or something?

Well, excluding the Targe, they're all annoying to play against and are generally imbalanced.

Annoying to play against? The mode has full-time heavies, engies, pyros and snipers. That ship has sailed.

Charge and Screen were both banned do to the easy exploit-ability of demo knighting. Which all though is generally ineffective it's also incredibly lame to play against.

@Radman
Reserve Shooter has and still is bugged with stairs (though it doesn't happen as often), it adds nothing to the game overall and only takes away from the game. Same with Spy-Cicle.

I shouldn't have to explain the Soda Popper, but basically this. It's basically the Phlog for scout, except "earning" the mini-crits is infinitely easier and the draw backs are significantly less so, the fact this weapon wasn't banned while the Phlog is was absolutely beyond me.

Finally why even post in a HL subforum if you dislike it so much? You have nothing to add here and probably don't even play HL except once or twice.

I recommended -most- of the maplist, and tbh it was either Snakewater, Swiftwater, Turbine, or Lakeside. Seeing as people were tired of CTF, and Lakeside and Swiftwater have been in nearly every medal season of UGC and ETF2L I felt Snakewater was the best choice.

I do like Highlander, and the fact that "it is annoying" wasn't really good enough to justify a ban (until now, i guess). We have 6s for that. I could have easily brought up a dozen unlocks that are legal, and would have fallen under the category of "lame to play against", but why would i when half the classes fall under that category for a lot of people?

If its bugged, the bans are fine. But even with the exploit, targe-turning demoknights are laughably easy to counter. If a team wants to give your heavy that much free-space, whats the point of the ban anyway? Let the team play suboptimally, push them down a rank, and practice for next week. If they somehow find out a way to beat you with a demoknight, youre team is either terrible, or was incredibly outplayed.

-ahem- Mangachu?

By incredibly outplayed, do you mean the demoknight was able to use a script very well?
I thing it's a justifiable ban as many do abuse the script, and that Valve intended to make it a go only straight. Also they may have banned it just because it gives crits and can pretty much one hit with the eyelander/etc. There's also resistance.

Not everyone wants to play full-time competitive 6s, HL is a format that's really quite easy to understand and thus is highly attractive to new players. Considering these 2 things 1 the people who would rather play Competitive HL at a "high" (I mean this relatively speaking) level don't want to play with or against these items as they only take away from the fun and competition of the game. While New players should not be forced to play against pub unlocks, their would be little point in calling Highlander competitive at all if this was so.

It isn't just that "it is annoying" it is both annoying and adds nothing but less competitive play. Not to mention the purposeful breaking of the intended use of these items with Scripts/Controllers.

If a team was truly just playing with the targe, without the intention to win, what does forcing them to not run it really do? The game doesnt become more competitive because you forced them to play a certain way.

If they really do intend to win with that particular unlock, why are you preventing them from trying?

This isnt really about the targe, but the precedent it's setting. If you're so willing to ban a weapon that is so bad BECAUSE its bad, what will happen when an actually good weapon comes out?

To be honest, i dont really know what a demoknight's team could do to outplay a normal team so i dont know how to answer your question.

The problem here is that youre making a case for the power of the weapon. I dont think anybody disagrees that the sticky launcher is better than the targe, especially in HL.

I don't think you've ever actually seen demos use a targe when being serious, it quite different then you're really painting it to be. They rarely run it for more than 1 life and is for suicide plays. Using scripts/controllers make this a lot easier to do so and makes countering demos harder, while also breaking the intended use of these weapons.

Had I used the reasoning you claimed that I've used, I would've banned Dozens of other unlocks what makes the Screen and Targe different?

Scripts/Controllers, and the breaking of the intended use of the weapons which by normal means wouldn't have been possible.

They weaken a combo class's effectiveness in a general scheme, and making the game less competitive because so.

They make the game less fun, playing against Screen/Targe players usually results in them using scripts/controllers to achieve something they usually wouldn't have, and at the suggestion of Multiple players I've spoken.

Bold indicates the MAIN REASON why these weapons were banned, it is far easier to ban dumb weapons that are easily exploited than banning the exploit, especially for items no one would use otherwise.

Special thanks to Comanglia on narrowing down these whitelists for HL. I hope to see a huge amount of signups for our TF2 events, both 6s and 9s (6s this season have prizing!!!)...any questions or concerns we are ALWAYS open to hear them, whether in vent, support ticket or our forums.

Thanks

Adam Spangler
Senior Support Specialist
aspangler@cevo.com

Im going to stop arguing here because it seems like we're getting off-topic a bit. If the problem here is truly the fact that players are getting an unfair advantage, then i can understand the ban (even though i dont really think its much of an advantage considering stock demoman).

My concerns still remain that the banlist will be dictated by whatever the players/admins find "annoying", which is usually the newest unlock and flavors of the week. Remember when the cow mangler was thought OP?

I hope you can shuck that attitude, and that Cevo does well with it's league. It will be nice to see a more competitive playerbase for HL, which is of course the most attractive form of comp tf2 for noobs.

friendly reminder the wrangler has in-game aim assist

I do remember, it actually got nerfed. Now it's nigh-on useless. (however I would argue the painted ones would be beyond OP as distractions)

The revision history states that the weapon was given a 10% damage nerf along with a 5% reload nerf two days after it was released, but the actual update history just says there was a 5% reload penalty, and that the weapons description was rewritten. Thats not really much of a nerf, and people were calling it OP for a lot longer than 2 days.

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/July_22,_2011_Patch

bumping to get more exposure for CEVO, and sign-ups

The main reason for this is because sentries aren't/shouldn't be lag compensated

It's still fucking gay though

The real problem with the cock mongler is a hidden first-reload penalty, which makes one of Soldier's best things (fire one rocket, reload) significantly worse. It has no niche and harm's Soldier's own specialties.

Why can't they be lag compensated only while they're wrangled?

@23: Imagine the confusion when suddenly wrangled sentries from 500 ping engineers can shoot you a full second and a half after you peek around a corner at them, and hitting people they appear to be tracking behind (since they have a constant tracer).

THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL WHITELIST.

I AM MOVED, MY HEART SKIPPING IN JOY AND MY ROOM FLOODED WITH TEARS.

No gunslinger on koth

a man can dream.

That would be annoying but I think I would still prefer that to aim assist. I mean, that same kinda thing happens with any hitscan weapon if someone has crazy high ping.

as much as i despise all sentries, the aim-assists on wrangler is so miniscule it actually doesnt bother me.

Because the wrangler works by pointing the sentry at the surface (or enemy) the engie is looking at, unless the engie is on top of the wrangler, it won't hit anything he's looking if aim assist was turned off. that, plus no lag comp for engies.