you're right. i'll help you stop making it about you.

this isn't the most pressing issue but since we're listing things that go wrong
can we have a limit on scrambles? it's happened a number of times where some dickheads spam scramble until they can team with their friends and the bot takes exponentially longer with each one, delaying the pug for an impressive amount of time.
also a SUPER clear and easy way to contact an admin would be nice

http://puu.sh/3NwYo.png

thank you based djc

There is a very easy way to contact an admin already. Next time you need an admin in #tf2mix, just use the !admin command by typing !admin in the chat. An admin should contact you some time in the next few minutes. Here is an example of me using the command in chat:

00:59 *** Ramble_On joined #tf2mix mibbit@###.##.##.###
Bot[Active] - Instructions: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/tf2mix
Topic set by *.GameSurge.net on Wed Jul 17 2013 16:40:55 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
00:59 <Ramble_On> !admin
00:59 <TF2-MESSENGER1> You successfully reported to an admin, the next available one should contact you as soon as possible.

omg thanks djc, I was just about to suggest that. almost every thread I've read lately turned into some stupid discussion about this kid.

anyway, I just want to point out that people that is good but just mess around in tf2mix offclassing or using useless unlocks or w/e shouldn't do that. but we shouldn't be complaining about the level of tf2mix being shit overall, remember that the idea of tf2mix is that players that aren't completely good at the game can play it in a somewhat serious environment to learn, and remember that pug.na is the place to play in a higher level with players that know what they're doing.
I think its good that we keep it that way so that new people get chances to play competitive and enjoy it.

There is a difference between plain bad picks and picking carries who don't play with the team and act like complete idiots forcing their team to get rolled. There is no point in picking a carry if they are going to throw the game which a lot of them do, yet people continue to encourage this behavior and then complain that people make bad picks.

It seems a lot of people interpreted my post as doing friend picks. That's not the case.

The problem isn't bad players. It's player treating the games like they're lobbies, and players fixing teams in order to play with friends. If you expect high level players in a low level pug channel, you're going to be disappointing.

As for good players playing their mains: There are few better ways to improve than to play with or against the best. They'll probably do a lot of work for their team, but it will be a learning experience for everyone. If you're playing pugs for balanced teams, you're going to be disappointing again.

if you're banned from tf2mix why does it matter...

im not sure what to do. I guess just enforce more rules and bans

If they are throwing the game I don't know why they would be considered a carry.

However, what you are pointing out now, still isn't the case that I'm talking about where people just ignore top picks over and over.

The reason that people often ignore good picks is that many of the players in #tf2mix don't play in the channel often and so they don't get picked. When they don't get picked, after a while, they add up as captain so they can actually play (and on the class they want). However, when it's their turn to pick, they have no idea who they can pick to make their team good because they haven't seen who gets picked first normally. The only solution to this is to add a captain restrict up to a certain game limit (ex. 15 games). However this would not be in the spirit of tf2mix (atleast the one that is evidenced by the existence of the normal gametype in the channel), which is allowing newer players play tf2 in a competitive format.

I remember when I first started pugging in tf2mix I would sit in the channel every time the game was set to picking mode. Fortunately, when I started captaining, (after around 10 games or so) I knew who the better players were and ended up with fair teams quite often. However, I've seen terrible captains (which lead to terrible pugs) many times.

TL;DR:

The only way to stop terrible captains is to captain restrict tf2mix players who have played in a small number of pugs, however this will never happen because it goes against the overall purpose of tf2mix, which is to provide pugs for players of a wide array of skill levels.

EDIT: This is completely wrong as pointed out by JDMYoshioka.

You need 20 games to add as captain in mix IIRC which might not be enough imo.

Oops, you're right.

Hmm, I guess I never tried to add captain until after 20 games then.

That's a good point about 20 games not being enough though, because thanks to notifications, players can totally ignore the picks above them, and basically do whatever they want on the computer until they get the notification that they will be playing in the next pug. I wonder if there is a way to restrict players from captaining until they have played in 20 captain games so they know who potential good teammates might be...

Theres 3 people everyday that come to mixes on alt accounts and make it 9v6 it's really gay

That's what admins are for! Just let the admins know when this is occurring and they can get their steam IDs and ban them from the servers.

Find the .ss or stats.atf2.org and message the admins.

The biggest problem of tf2mix is captain quality and admin activity. Basically, teams are constantly shit because people that don't know the players pick terribad teams and lose 5-0. Admins don't crestrict the captains that consistently pick poorly so they just keep doing it.

Also, general shitlords are still allowed to play in tf2mix for who knows why.

This pretty much sums it up. Many mixes are always bad because they don't pick good people.On the flip side there is always people who captain mixes to only pick people who are in their "click" so there is a huge chance that a person gets fat kid'd every few drafts. It isn't fair to many new players that they only have a chance to get picked if there is a bot picking instead of captains. We sorta need a better way of determining captains.

are people supposed to pick new players over their friends even though they know their friends are better than the new players?

are people supposed to pick new players over their friends even though they know their friends are better than the new players?

If you want to go stomp a group of randoms go to tf2lobby

introduce elo and randomly sort accordingly

now we will see who is REALLY the mix master

probably all the 6s sniper mains

Missing the point of what blueberry said

The best people added in tf2mix are typically all friends or know each other in some way. The best people get picked, and people cry friend picking even though they got picked just because they were the best added. Should the captains pick newer players knowing full well the best picks are not happening?

This also causes another problem. If one of the better players adds captain and picks his friends against a captain that doesn't know the players, it just ends up in a 5-0 roll. This is usually what happens and is what caused this "problem" to arise, when the real problem is the other captain doesn't know the proper people to pick.

I think the main point of what Boogaloo said was the overall quality of the players these days being bad is our main issue. I mean, I don't have the server issues, but even if I did, if we didn't have a certain quality in players (which we are very much lacking) what would be the point of having the "good servers"? The way I see it the players are our main problem, not all of them, but certainty a lot of them show up, maybe off of some of the YouTube videos being put out by a few individuals (AcesGamer).

As a side note, when people are good and can carry, it's one thing. I don't like having it or going up against it myself, but it wouldn't be fair to be mad at someone being able to do that since they are playing well enough to do that. What makes it a carry is the other crap players around them, unless that person is just too good for anyone else to actually do anything. But its in that case that a 5-0 occurs and that's where we have our problem. I don't see the fun of being on either side of a 5-0.

I think i've restated this enough but the player quality is so off balance that it's painful. All I can really advise is more admins, or people need to step up and report.

tf2mix is a fucking joke

I'm ashamed to say that and I very much wanted the 300th return of tf2pug/tf2mix to actually work out this time, like I have every other of the 299 times. It's supposed to be a great way to help newbies break into the scene. While we do have other alternatives for just that, that has been the goal of tf2pug since it first started (though leaning more towards new players just trying to improve than get help starting).

Now it's just a fuck fest for people to not take games seriously and ultimately the biggest thundercunts I've seen.

I try to do my best to inform Eulogy of problems (some of which are usually reoccurring problems), but I, let alone Eulogy can only do so much for the channel. Cinq, I haven't heard a word from you about anything tf2mix related in forever. What's the deal? What are the other admins/mods doing? Eulogy seems to be the only person to ever do anything and I feel bad for the channel suddenly being his problem only.

I'm using this second post to address the posts in this thread.

#1 You're right, but also you're a little bit wrong. There's no problem necessarily with running pyro to mid other than mainly for the team doing it. Considering pyro to mid is a strat that works often anymore, it can still pull out some random shit in favor for their team. Either way, my point is that unless it's something that happens every round or every other round, then yes, tell an admin or someone about it.

#3 I remember this specifically. Admins really need to step it up and put longer bans on people who don't show up. I don't know how people are getting unbanned before the time they're supposed to get unbanned, but it needs to stop.

#5 There isn't a restrict command in tf2mix unfortunately.

#12 Let's be fair here. Using the Quickfix makes it kind of hard to not want to try something silly when you're pugging. I find it completely understandable, but I also completely understand your point. If you see this happening on your team, say something. If they don't listen, you're in the right to talk to an admin about it.

#15 What's worse, people (who should probably play in pug.na, like myself and eulogy specifically) playing their mains or invite players playing any of the combat classes in tf2mix? I'm not going to point fingers and shit, but I've seen invite players playing tf2mix pugs more times than I'd like to admit. It's kind of silly but also kind of stupid. They have pugna and their invite pugs (if those still happen).

#24 "We lack admins." Then why was I removed as someone with some type of power, Cinq? I tried talking to you countless times about how I would like to watch over the channel. All you would say, if you even responded, was "read the steam group of admin commands on IRC". 3/4ths of those commands I couldn't even use or didn't do anything in general, at least until later on, when I already had my power taken.

I could keep responding to people but this post is long enough.

It kinda sucks because there are people like me who wouldn't really get picked in pug.na :/

The problem is people are being dicks/not taking it seriously, the solution is to message an admin about it. More admins would be preferable. Restrictions would be helpful. More requirements to captain would also be preferable. Eulogy won't bite your head off for sending him a pm about something, so do so if people are ruining pugs somehow. An auto captain restrict for ~1 day after a 5-0 game would be great.

i've compiled all of these valid points/complaints and will be posting it in the tf2mix admin group so it can be discussed with other admins and Cinq.

yes, tf2mix is typically a step below tf2pugna in skill level, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be a good-quality, competitive game.

My hero

Last time I saw you in mix you were sniping/pyro the whole game