On the other hand, the change was so drastic it might be considered a new weapon
I don't think you would've liked it so much if people started using a new 'overpowered' weapon for a whole season

Oh boy! A new medigun! Boy it sure is interesting see how players figure it out in play. Hmmm, seems they're stuck trying to figure it out for a moment, stalemate on a stalematey map, not a surprise. WHOA HOLY SHIT, A CONCH?! HOLY SHIT IT WORKS?! HOLY SHIT HYYYYYPE

HOLY SHIT, I'd have NEVER thought I'd see a Conch pulled out and be a viable, solid counter! That was amazing! I can't wait to see what other changes the Quick-Fix will-

Oh. Banned.

Well, I suppose when you allow a huge, game changing item mid season, give the players no time to figure it out, then put them in LAN with a cast instantly calling for a ban in front of 3k people from a single bad half, I suppose that might happen, huh?

I love watching skill when it does the same thing every time.

Except it wasn't just Gullywash that was stalematey as fuck? Gully is obviously the worst, but we can't just say only Gully was a problem. The entire LAN was significantly slower than past seasons, and it's because of the Quick-Fix.

Honestly, the whole situation could have probably been handled better, and IMO it should probably be given just a little bit more time, but it is what it is.

Which grand final map was slow?

Seems like alot of pro quick fix posts and some good thought provoking ones from mixup. On the other hand, Killings original post has a shit ton of plus frags. Not really adding up.

Unban the Quickfix. Fight against the ESEA. UNITE TOGETHER TO OVERRULE THE BAN. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

frags and ratings are inherently flawed because it's easy to write off a post with a ton of minus frags without giving it a fair chance, and vice versa. i think the plus frags for the OP were just saying like "hey thanks for letting us know" or something?

My issue with the quickfix isn't necessarily that it makes the game worse to watch by making it slower, but rather it makes it worse to watch by making it harder to follow. TF2 can already be a messy game to keep track of, but at the very least it's generally straightforward. However, quickfix makes it so much harder for me to follow, because uber %s mean something completely different, or mean nothing at all, which is a large indication of who is in control.

I also think (feel free to refute because I'd like to hear what other people think) that makes medic a lot easier. I feel like this has been pointed out before. A large portion of being good at medic is your position and movement, but both of those pretty much go out the window for very basic coordination with your pocket. It lets you put yourself in stupid positions, and never be punished for it because you can just fly away (or at the very least run faster by healing a scout). It also essentially allows the medic to be in 2 places at once, by almost instantly rotating.

I feel that last point, added onto the quicker healing, is what makes the stalemates happen as well. Before, if you want to push a flank, it would be difficult for the defending combo to retaliate to it, now the can almost instantly appear there, and cause the push the back off.

On top of that, I feel that in the majority of situations, the quickfix is simply the best medigun to use. I don't see how that isn't the definition of overpowered. That is the reason that we ban guns. Because they are just better than the other options. Sure, there may be ways to counter it, in playstyle and classes, that will emerge eventually, however the fact is that is overpowered compared to the alternatives.

good to know how highly your own character

The quick fix at this point has too many advantageous abilities for a single weapon. Pretty much everyone believes that it needs a nerf. Which abilities should be nerfed is the question.

1. Faster uber build - Right now QF is guaranteed to get uber at the same time or quicker than any other medi gun. That makes it a boon at mid since you don't have to worry about the other team getting an uber quicker than you and pushing you with your pants down. Plus, medics don't have to manage heal orders to build quickly. The 30s uber is guaranteed. It makes windows for pushes smaller and therefore, more stalemates. I would suggest either reducing the build bonus to 12.5% or (preferably) taking it away entirely. You still get a guaranteed 40s uber. You can be beaten by kritz but kritz is supposed to hard counter qf anyway.
2. Flying medics - Problems people have outlined with this mostly involve medics being better positioned on mid now and being able to get away. I don't think this aspect should be nerfed since it adds a dynamic element to the medic class. It forces the medic to control their movement and allows for skill plays that were previously impossible.
3. Medic self heal/overbuff - One of the downsides to the qf was that the medic was not invulnerable. With the overbuff on the uber, he nearly is. I don't see a reason for keeping the overheal on the uber. Medics should avoid damage like during a kritz but with the luxury of a 300% heal rate. Focus fire kills on the med should be possible with one direct + 1 solid splash rocket.
4. Faster heal rate - This is the essence of the gun and allows teammates to get back into fights quicker. I don't really see this changing.
5. 300% heal rate while ubered - Again, the essence of the gun that should be kept, but with supporting abilities that are balanced.
6. Ability to cap while ubered - Why? Stop please.
7. No knockback while ubered - Platinum put it best. This ability takes away skilled players ability to deny the uber. Pretty much combos can walk in for free, do their damage, and get out quickly without any means of slowing them down. This ability seems like a relic of times when the quick fix was not viable all the time and needed a niche, but now that it has overheals it shouldn't need this.
8. 50% overheals - If the gun doesn't have overheals, it isn't viable. This is necessary if we want to see the quick fix in any serious capacity.

I suggested this somewhere else, and I'm not sure if it's a good change or not, but maybe slowing down the speed that it gives overheal to match the other mediguns will make it more on par with them when it comes to non-uber fights.

It will still heal players up to their full health faster, but it will take a bit longer to get an overheal.

do you srsly think valve will nerf it for 6s?

Before it needed a buff to be viable and now it needs a nerf? You still need a highly coordinated team to pull it off, and even then you can still be outplayed or outskilled by a medigun/kritz. Quick-fix deserves this buff and it has added a new dynamic to medic to make them more skilled and fun. Sucks that it was banned before anything really came of the buff it received.

Not really. Gotta add more hats.

But a child can dream.

Can't you ban it mid season if it starts to get out of hand? I've had a very limited experience playing with/against it so take my opinions with a grain of salt. However, I do feel like many of us are in a similar situation which is why the hive mended arguments are clashing rather than testing it in scrims with an open mind and developing concrete opinions on balance. The big three things I'm thinking about right now are QuickFix, Heavy, and cp_gullywash.

Current thoughts on...

QuickFix: It needs a slight nerf to just one of it's stats and it'll be near completely balanced. With that said I don't think it's super broken either. I think it should be allowed at it's current state but re-looked by Valve and the community.

Heavy: Not fun at all to play against, but almost necessary to have if you wipe on mid. If you wipe on mid does the other team deserve an easier push to last? If this strategy is super common, shouldn't the scout/soldier who inevitably died on mid (the team who didn't get wiped) switch to sniper/spy immediately anticipating the heavy? I think it's bad for the game if a class gets banned outright. I'm really torn on this guy.

cp_gullywash: The last point should probably be redone completely. It's such a large enclosed area it's hard to see what the other team is doing unless one team pushes in or out of the chokepoint which seemingly gives them a disadvantage the majority of the time (in stalemates). A mapper might want to try and team up with higher level players (IM or Invite) and mess around with last a bit.

Again, these are just my current opinions. As I play more they will definitely change.

Although deep down I want to believe that valve could possibly alter the stats of the quick fix, I also know deep down that they aren't likely to change a weapons stats for the sake of our small community.

I think we're all more or less on the same ball with that notion.

That said, can we all just agree to start being more pragmatic and stop talking about what nerfs we think would best fit the quick fix? It's good food for thought I suppose, but I think it's pointless, unless someone has some kind of lead on a possibility that valve might change it for us.

Its the medic self overheal from the Quick Fix Uber that makes it over powered. Remove it and the Quick Fix is balanced.

The gun has just had a garbage development cycle. The biggest issue with it was ALWAYS the lack of overheal, but instead of considering that, Valve introduced it with a list of gimmicks, with the run speed and lack of knockback. When it was still crap, they added another gimmick with the explosive jumping. When it was still crap, and they finally fixed the real issue with it, all the gimmicks came along. Not all of them are needed for the gun to remain viable.

The combination of Kritzkrieg timing but not needing to build it is also totally broken. I'd say you can have +25% Ubercharge rate, or you can have never needing to build. You can't have both.

Well that was a quick fix.

http://www.montezumabeach.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/UW-23-11.jpg

When Sal went to talk with them, they said that they would change weapon stats for the sake of our small community. If a weapon is so OP it gets banned, Valve will fix it.

Am I really that clueless? When did this happen? Do you have a link? Can sal confirm?

Give the flying medic and no knockback to the Vaccinator and both become balanced and viable.

I just feel the decision has been taken into a hurry. Sure thing its a good idea to make an announcement because teams wants to know if they have to practice with it for S15.

I think a vote should be submitted to all the players who paid their ESEA fees and is on a roster on a Open-IM-Invite team.

I also feel there is a huge gap between the community right now. I really didnt enjoyed Killing response to our community (in such a short way...) when we had PLENTY of threads about it and everyone made valid arguments. Just so everyone know the real reasons why its banned and your logic behind it. Am i the only one who is not happy with the '' yeah i talked to people about it'' ? We can do better!

if a poll is going to be taken it should be invite players voting. if all of these qf threads have shown anything it is that the invite crowd has a diverse set of opinions on the thing

I liked the metagame changes, and even though the Quick Fix was slightly too strong, I'm not really sure if I like seeing it banned. The evolution that happened during ESEA was promosing enough for interesting and balanced gameplay. Regardless, the decision has been made and complaining won't help your team win next season - practicing will!

Good job on ESEA for making such a quick decision though, so teams can start practicing back to the way it was. Massive props for that one.

I was watching the gullywash match were the casters were crying up a storm about the quick fix. Can't help but think that it swayed some opinions.

So quick fix is bad because it has replaced the medigun? Why can one be used 90% of the time and not the other? Also, it was a stalemate on Gullywash (surprise, right?), and the stalemate was broken by switching mediguns and going Conch. Once the teams finally stopped playing super passive and turtling, shit happened.

Well, it was the complaining which got it banned without a vote in the first place (whether or not Killing would have let it been voted on if more invite teams stayed alive is arguable by him, but the fact a majority of the community was crying about it certainly forced his hand), so I guess the hope is even more complaining could lead to Killing reversing his decision.

if you are upset with killings decision email torbull or lpkane @ craig@esportsea.com or erik@esportsea.com

preferably both.

last time i emailed them killing got yelled at then yelled at me.