Longer fights -> more opportunities for decisions regarding positioning/prediction/aim/movement -> more interesting fights that reward higher skill. The opposite would end up becoming somewhat like cod, where fights are won and lost based on few seconds leading up to the fight. Both can be fun, but the former is what makes tf2 (and other quake-like games) stand out.

A small patch just hit. Tide turner refills charge on impact kills.

Does valve actually base all their weapon changes off star's videos? Suddenly everything makes sense.

ur dum

evry class has 2 hit shots because shotoer game ye, but now if u play demo and ur acurate u get dik 4 damage and everyone callse u useless because 30 dmg stickies are adorable, when you dould do 48 dmg rockets (which r faster!(( with th same acuracy nd u dnt get fcukd by close rang either!

nade launcher is objectively better than RL only if ur literlly perfect. if u were that good with pipes, u were either invite or sandbagging, or a DM lord. Every demo just dropped half a division because no one seriously expected that the least useful secondary for all the 6s classes would actually be the primary. GL is shitty compared to every other back up weapon, because it filled literally the same niche as the SL, a mid range spam weapon. It's slightly better point blank just because directs, but even then you're gonna shoot yourself really hard and you'll have to back up or die. Nades as a primary are less consistent, less useful, and less damaging than SL for almost every player in the game right now

SL spam is the only way to deal consistent meaningful damage for demo. Pipes are too easy to avoid, and traps are not useful 90% of the time. When they work, they fuck people up, but especially now that they're the only way to actually demo, they're expected and therefore less threating bcus ud have 2 b retarded 2 actualy cnstintly die 2 traps. the trap heavy lifestyle also slows the game dwn bcus ud have 2 either rotare 4 each push or ubr thrugh togurante no drops, othrwise ur pltng dm 4tres 2 whch is gay bcus then evry fight is dependant on how dm gud ur pcket is

I actually agree with you but they way you write it makes it really painfull to do so.

lol stickies

Aside from the whole demo thing, we got damage stats added to the scoreboard!

To be entirely fair, saying "hit more pipes" is easier said than done. Demo has never been my cup of tea. By far it's been my worst class in a competitive setting. I could never quite grasp stickies, leaving my only weapon in most fights to be a pipe launcher, which is far more random than a lot of you are making it out to be. I'm pretty "good" with pipes, just because directs are something I've practiced across multiple games. But unlike Quake, TF2 has a much more lenient approach to movement. A scout jumping to the right, and accidentally slipping off his strafe key, could hit spacebar to double jump and just fly up and down or in a random direction he didn't intend, leaving the pipe that would have been close or hit to look like a joke.

This isn't implying prediction is inherently bad. Even hitscan in this game is slightly prediction based. For hitscan to be entirely "aim no prediction" (not sure what that means exactly??), human reaction time would have to be instantaneous. "Tracking" something with a shotgun is both prediction and reaction time. If characters in this game could teleport (think Goku instant transmission) at random times, all scouts would miss because they predicted the soldier to move in one of 4 directions or to continue moving in one direction, instead of teleporting across the map. But it's even worse with pipes. No doubt will pipes be used more and demos will be better at reading movement and connecting them. However, they're far too prediction based to be relied upon in a lot of situations. At certain distances and in certain circumstances, it becomes an educated guess, especially if the scout or soldier is trying to make his movement wonky.

I can't help but think there are much better ways to nerf a demo (like less stickies). Aside from reverting the update, the only redemption I could see at this point is making pipes fly and land in a linear fashion. If demos could shoot pipes across the ground without differentiated rotations and landings, they could turn pipes into pseudo rockets or stickies, lessening the prediction a bit.

That new sniper rifle is completely useless, but that sound brings back...so many feels.

I wouldn't mind maybe nerfing the sticky dmg by 10 or 20 but the 2 second thing just seems silly.
I don't think Valve should make a change this specific, cause I wonder if a new player joins TF2, and keeps detting his stickies before 2 seconds, he'll think oh god stickies suck, this class sucks. Might not easily find out about the 2 second rule or whatever.

Maybe now I can beat a demo when I respawn in mge! sweet!

After playing a scrim with this I'm quitting tf2. Its been fun
I lied, its not terrible. Kinda looking forward to seeing how this goes.

I just played a scrim and a match like this with my team. How the fuck can anyone think this is not a complete destruction of 6s?

The problem with making the comparison of this update to a moba or rts game is that usually if something is nerfed, there is something to fill that void. You can't actually fill a demomans void.

fuck demo
fuck the new weapons

give me back my rl viewmodel and scout scattergun reload animation

It's almost as if people like Platinum have played this game at the top competitive level for years, watched the rise and fall of tons of different metas, and understand that people can adapt to pretty much anything.

adjust your playstyle. I actually had more fun last night as pocket with this nerf. It's just annoying that kritz plays aren't gonna be used as much in the game's current state.

You might be having more fun as pocket because you're getting more heals because the demo isn't doing anything.

pretty sure it's because I'm not getting raped by spam as soon as I peak a choke.

this updates made 6s way funner for everyone but demo. seriously mids feel so strange, theres hardly a reason to worry about demos anymore.

gee twitch maybe people are OK with a relatively stale meta finally evolving, even if the patch was a bit too much and makes demo way less valuable

dang it I need one. Is it just the TFC sniper sound? pewpew need gibs for fully charged kills like in TFC \o/

Give Demo 6 pipes back and we'll call it even

name was leftover from playing cs:go match making rofl

also nice one squid

http://cdn.churchm.ag/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Logical-Fallacies-ad-hominem.jpg

upon further review i've decided it was all in my head, just gotta hit the stickies.

u disgrace new jersey

"eloquent and compelling case"

at least now mangachu can't try to sticky jump over the entire other team and somehow get a 4k

So I was expecting this to be awful just like everyone else as a demo main. Surprisingly, I've been having A LOT of fun. Pipes, while unreliable, are fun as hell, and it feels nice to not be focused all the time. Also, using more traps is pretty fun.

I didn't think Valve nerfing my class would make me enjoy it more, but it did. I am probably an outlier though.

If I'm really honest you people are blind for The Real Threat that will take over Competitive.