Whether UGC is terrible or not, screw it. I have decided to have my team tell anyone they see in a pub that seems adequately skilled to come either to UGC or right here to TeamFortressTV. Give them some advice, tell them the basics of ALL the comp styles so they don't feel restricted to just HL or 6's or even 4's. Everyone should do this, this is the best way to really get people into it. Show them some videos people like Marxist have made and stuff like that of which we have available to us to really get them into the feel of comp TF2. Yeah, UGC DOES suck, and ESEA is probably the best bet for everyone in the long run but if we can at least try to make UGC better and perhaps someone or some of us can develop a brand new league then we can truly take TF2 back if we really try. Valve may not care, but I know I and a lot of you do.

YEA WTF
https://www.change.org/p/give-steve-chen-a-letter-of-rejection-UGC-6s

Have had playcomp.tf in my Steam name since yesterday. Went on a pub, guy in server chat making it clear that he likes playing to win and team-play, I suggested he check out playcomp.tf. He said he would and thanked me for the suggestion.

If only it were always that simple.

I'll admit that I get annoyed at people who main heavy, pyro, or engineer. But that's mostly only because they're classes people can play when they aren't particularly good and get kills. I massively respect people who are amazingly skilled at those classes (except for heavy because I'll be honest I can't really tell); it just annoys me that people will go "well i can't aim i'll play engineer/pyro/heavy."

I know that playcomp.tf is going to be a permanent feature in my steam aliases from now.

You need to aim with flares just like you aim with rockets O.o

This isn't really the thread to get into this, but that's a whole different can of worms. Especially with airblast's extremely predictable nature.

The main thing is that all classes in TF2 require some level of technical skill, but some require a lot more.

I think the similarities between pubs and HL goes some way to disprove this, although of course if the base game was Highlander it would make leagues more accessible.

The differences between TF2 and Dota and CS that drive large scale participation are exposure (it's in the game client with competitive news), ease of use (it's almost one click to start a competitive game, really easy to play with your friends too), and official recognition.

The only 'official' competitive game format from Valve is 9v9, but despite this there is no way to join a 9v9 game from the client home screen and they don't include any news about the competitive scene in general in the game client either, and anything we ask for is marginalised in the blog news tab.

The only way to get that stuff into the game client is via a custom hud (this is possible right?). How you motivate thousands of pubbers to use your hud is open to question, it would have to have some compelling features.

I am entirely happy to admit that, but compared to pyros who run forwards m1ing, it's far rarer than decent soldiers.

The point I was trying to make is that the idea of removing all 'free' leagues and making the only format 6v6 (as has been suggested by a number of people across all of these threads) just isn't a viable solution for the reality of tf2. If 6s was available in the client, and supported by valve, then yes, I think we could focus on consolidating into a single pay to play league. But because it isn't we desperately need some kind of entry level league where the barriers to entry for new players are minimal if present at all.

As much as you may disagree with some of the policies, decisions, and structures in place in UGC, you have to agree that right now it is the single best entry level league we have in north america. Lobbies, and ESEA Open simply don't cut it as an effective way to introduce someone to the competitive format. Talking about eliminating UGC, or even replacing it seem entirely counter productive. The league exists and it servers a valuable and needed function. Lets improve it, rather than starting over from scratch and further splintering our community.

Well, if we can't even get someone that actually cares about 6s in UGC then I think it's reasonable to make a new free league.

UGC will care about UGC 6s, not for NA-TF2 6s. Same as how ESEA cares only about...ESEA.

You can take over admin positions on UGC but ultimately the league's interest is not to become just a stepping stone for ESEA's business. Even though that's what WE want and depict UGC as being.

NA-TF2 has for the entirety of it's 6s scene piggy backed off of leagues ran by other entities with of course their own interests. At this point, I know what I'm saying is fantasy and most likely not possible at all. But I believe the NA-TF2 6s community needs to start its OWN league with FULL control in the community's hands (*COUGH* ETF2L *COUGH*). From what I gather, ETF2L had it a bit easier because of their previous experience with other games (EQ3FL and EETFL). Anyways yes, it's a huge undertaking and ultra risky, and honestly I don't know what it takes to run a league.

Btw, there's one UGC admin for the entirety of its 6s div. He's ALSO running the 4s as well... Talk about being overworked.

I think everyone can agree that ESEA depends on UGC for its new player registrations. Are you suggesting we 'improve' UGC for it to become a better foundation for ESEA? If not to transform UGC into ESEA's bitch, then are we going to compete with ESEA by strengthening UGC? But NA-TF2 wont give up on ESEA because of a 'LAN' and exposure to the outside. Wouldn't it be UGC's GOAL to retain players inside its own league thus drying up the river to ESEA? Are there other options, I know the statements about UGC's interests are just pure speculation but I think we've seen what they've had to say from the ESEA<->UGC admin talks before.

this has probably already been said but the way you get more people playing is by showing people the comp game, showing them casts of highlander and sixes on youtube is probably the best way i think twitch is great but it doesn't reach the vast audience that youtube does, it also probably wouldn't hurt to have a free league in america, i know in europe we get more signups nearly every season because our league is free and brand new players would probably be a little cautious about paying to play when they are unsure of their skill level. i know you guys have ugc sixes but when you watch streamers and go on the forums everyone shit talks it and thats going to put new people off playing in ugc.

There's more signups in Europe but the pay barrier makes for better competition.

i'm not saying its not a good thing but if you are talking about bringing new players in they most probably won't want to pay

Hi everyone,

UGC is always open to criticism. Us being a free league does not mean you should expect or accept lower standards from us. We should should always strive and aspire for the best. That will hold truth whatever situation the TF2 competitive community faces and whatever challenges we face.

I used to be in your shoes and I can still see myself in them. I joined the UGC admin team because its community motivated me. That holds truth for all TF2 admins. We do our job because of our passion for the game. We do it because we realize how amazing this community can be.

I have always considered myself fairly active in the community. Like many of you, I have never been shy about expressing my opinion about UGC. Like you, I would be disappointed to see that I spent my time posting paragraphs and paragraphs of suggestions or constructive criticism which in the end, to me, seemed like it ended up falling on deaf ears. Some of those topics were actually brought up in an interview that I conducted with them here, months prior I officialy joined the admin team.

Quite frankly, when I joined UGC, I expected the worst. I understood that they put hours and hours of their free time, sacrificing personal hobbies, to give to the community. That is a fact that no one can contest. Like many of you however, what I had trouble understanding is why they didn't post and, quite bluntly, didn't seem to care.

It would have been a pain for me to see that they didn't care; that I had decided to commit my time to an organization who did what they did for the wrong reasons. That they might have started it out of sheer passion but that by now, they simply did it because they felt like it was an obligation. But it was the opposite and, unfortunately, that was an even painful truth for me to see.

I'm posting this on a personal level, I have not been asked by the Head Admins to do so. Trust me when I tell you that I'm not looking for anyone's pity. But it truly breaks my heart and I do become a little emotional when I see that behind each decision and criticism UGC faces, there is an explanation. It pains me to see that if we could clone our Head Admins and send them to answer all of these criticisms, then maybe it would help the community understand our position better. I'm not saying UGC has never made any mistakes. We all do. What I'm saying is those mistakes were all made due to a valid reasoning and with all parties' interest in mind.

I will end this post by saying that UGC has heard your concerns. And that we do care. snowblindfrog has posted here to say so, after we were able to confirm some initial details. I know that it seems like a short message, but the amount of words is not representative of its value.

Thanks to everyone and cheers to the TF2 community,
Mamboulay

I have played in valve servers about an hour a day for the last 2 days. In that time (with playcomp.tf in my alias) I have asked people about their thoughts on competitive during setup times and such. So far 3 people have added me to learn more (2 are in the process of finding a team via ugcleague.com) and numerous more have expressed that they will check out competitive.

It really isn't that hard.

Yeah guys. In just two days, 160+ are sporting the playcomp.tf tag and I'm hearing stories like Jakes across various forums. Keep it up!

make 6s vanilla

I don't see the point of worrying about it to be honest, UGC isn't going anywhere and neither is ESEA as long as they get signups. Get exposure of the format to new players and the scene will thrive, the leagues will continue to take care of themselves. Someone saying you have to kill all leagues other than ESEA on a forum will have zero impact on that.

The efforts players are making with the playcomp.tf thing are really the things that will make a difference. It's the one place Valve can't shut us out from and probably doesn't want to - the actual game itself.

Possibly the worst idea so far on this thread. Nice!

I don't think that either league should feel the need to compete. UGC, at least in my mind, should have 2 priorities: Highlander, and being an entry level league for all competitive formats. UGC 6s has long been neglected, and is widely considered a joke, even by its current player base. I think that that presents a big opportunity to make some serious changes to it.

The reason I suggest players from ESEA donating time to rebuilding it as a launch pad for ESEA Open, is because the unavoidable truth is that ESEA, at least for 6s, is the more prestigious league. With LAN, prize pools, and league fees people are going to take this league more seriously. Right now most of the teams in UGC 6s equate a successful season in silver to a passable season in low open (not saying that the skill levels are the same, just that most serious teams don't see a need to play any higher than ugc silver before making the jump to ESEA. And for the most part iron, steel, and silver do their jobs (despite numerous sandbag teams) of getting people ready for ESEA.

UGC isn't going to lack for players, their goal is a constant influx of new players, as well as retaining players in Highlander. I don't think that the league would have any problems acting as a stepping stone into ESEA if ESEA players were seen putting time and effort back into UGC as a result.

I don't think it is worth while to make a new league because then we further divide our player base. Some people would leave UGC, others would not. I think if both leagues can swallow their pride, accept that they each serve a vital role for our community, and try to work together, we would see substantial growth in both leagues.