from what i understand that 10k hour figure came from some guy asking the world's top musicians how much they practiced and most of them ballparked around 10k hours, it absolutely does not mean you will become a "master" of your craft after 10k hours

mastery isn't something man can obtain but rather something that man can always get closer towards

I thought it was from tradesmen.
40 hours a week for 5 years is enough to be damn incredible at a specific trade.

They only have a few thousand hours in csgo, but almost every cs pro playing today has been in the scene for 6+ years, and a few for 10 or more. They probably have double those hours in 1.6 and source.

that wouldnt be deliberate practice so no

lol 3 hours a day everyday for a decade sounds pretty deliberate and if you start doing it that much anyway, its almost impossible for you to not start taking it seriously.

Pretty sure hours dont matter, nor does it release its full potential when you reach 10K. B4nny has over 10K and he still isint the best scout in the world, mackey has over 10k but he was never the best roamer in NA or the world. Meanwhile, people like mike and clockwork has made it to the top,while they probably dont have 10K. One can argue that full potential does not mean the best, but b4nny hasnt hit his ceiling, and clockwork, while he havent seen a drastic change, he still probably have <10K (his profile is private). In all honesty, its about the amount of effort you put into anything, hours dosent matter. You cant say b4nny was a shit demo in season 10 because he hasnt hit his "full potential", and neither can you say clockwork is a bad scout because he hasnt hit 10K. TL;DR, Effort>Hour

stop pubbing so much!

http://i.imgur.com/XSMseI7.jpg

Actual playtime: 4967.94 on record

and im still not good, help

There are plenty of people that have been in invite with like 4k hours so I think if you spend your time wisely and are just plain good it helps. I'm sure there are tons of people that even with 10k hours wouldn't be in invite.

now i am aware that someone, a human being who is alive, decided to call themselves "loveclop"

the knowledge, stored within these connections made inside my brain, will never fully lose its entropy

banny doesnt have 10k hours on scout though so ur argument is dead mocha...

its actually fucked up how little phelon plays compared to how good he is. doesn't make sense

http://puu.sh/j3lZE/798305b721.jpg

keep in mind he's been playing since season 2

True, but it's also noteworthy that he has sick mechanical skills honed from countless hours in other games:
http://www.qlranks.com/ca/player/phelon (Clan Arena ranks not Duel ranks, FYI)

http://i.imgur.com/QST969T.png

There is no such thing as a 10,000 hour "Rule". It's a poorly empirically-derived number that describes a handful of people who became geniuses in their fields. The number 10,000 sounds pretty catchy to people reading a book. Scientifically speaking, there is no basis to it whatsoever.

Focus on improving yourself each day. One day, after all those days have added up, you will be at your goal.

I have over 10k Hours and I'm still in UGC Steel, send help.

the keyword being casual

If you think about it, if you can persist in doing something for a whole 10k hours you probably really enjoy it, and people usually enjoy being good at stuff, so anyone that manages to do something for 10000 hours was probably naturally talented at it anyway.
Like imagine how hard it would be to force yourself to practice something you literally had no natural ability in for 10000 hours.

upio

? Yeah I can read
My point was that if you do something for an average of three hours a day everyday for decade then you aren't treating it casually

You don t need natural talent just the will to improve. All natural ability does it give you a step up when starting out at a new thing it has no influence on how good or how far you can go with something.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/tastysteak almost 20k

http://steamcommunity.com/id/ryb/ Ryb got into top prem when he was under 1k hours IIRC and judging by his hours and date when he registered on ETF2L (7 years ago), I assume he didn't play anything but scrims and officials?

http://steamcommunity.com/id/PurnPum/

I guess in 1k more hours i'll switch from a dustbowl valve server pubstomper to an invite player?

Maybe..?

natural talent is just an excuse someone uses when theyre not getting better or refuse putting more time in to get better

x player has 2000 hours and i have 7000 and theyre this much better then me, must be natural talent
i have x amount of hours and im still not good, i must not have natural talent -> better off not trying

to me this game is all about confidence. ive played with players with tons of hours (myself, reimu, dance# notably) and i know they posses the ability and work ethic to be much better, but hold themselves back with doubt and a lack of confidence.

ive also played with players that are so cocky that they dont even entertain the fact they arent the best (muma, goldfish, alec) and those players are the ones that are invite now, with much less hours than me as well.

ie youre not going to be talented in something unless u have the confidence that you will be. just a personality thing

I heard there is some paid software out there that can make you good overnight.

On a serious note though, I'm approaching 10,000 hours soon :( 60%-70 of mine is idle though, I've never reset my class stats.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/msxena/stats/TF2/?tab=stats

guess she's getting close to mastery!!!

I think it isn't about amount of hours you spend, more like the hours you spend developing.

Look at this way, we all grow up in a society where we speak the native language, but we don't advance our language skills without the right resources. I developed my vocabulary to a certain level in School/College doing English Literature, reading multiple books and examples of great literature and word play. Granted over the years my career has shifted to utilising these skills less and less, so as a result I have had to use the spellchecker no less fewer than four times, though it is mostly your Americanized use of the 'Z'. But as I attempt to learn German, I notice I can consistently do the easy/basic stuff but then it takes a lot of practice to move to more intermediate and advanced levels of the language, something I have to consistently do. So I can keep practicing basic German phrases and sentences like "I have a dog" all day long, but then if I want to expand on it I need to step my practice up and do more advanced types of learning.

How does this relate to TF2? Well, I have just gone over 10k hours, I estimate 95% of that time was actually me playing so I think I can say I fit into the discussion well. Of this time, I don't think I played competitive TF2 until after I had played at least 2000-3000 hours of the game (Can't remember) but I spent most of my gaming time, several hours a day sometimes on cp_lazytown or Goldrush or Dustbowl or other choke point spectaculars playing Demoman and Engineer, camping with a sentry and being the master of sitting back on my last or alternatively as Demo, spamming choke points waiting for the inevitable 12 fov pub player to run into my spam and die.

So after 2000-3000 hours I try pugging vs what is by todays standard, bottom feeding Div 6/Open/TF2center level players and get rinsed upon. All my experience spamming a choke point tinier than the Oesophagus of an ant and camping on a point with a sentry meant nothing when scouts could press A and D once or twice and wow my puny public player game. When you compare this to the majority of competitive players who sit aroun 2k-3k hours mark, some of them are quite good but that is because they spent the majority of their practise time learning TF2 in a more advanced competitive environment, on bigger maps which require more advanced skills, versus better players and of course utilising the cookie cutter setup, so you can try appreciate the disadvantages of certain classes in a higher stake, higher skill matchup. I spent most of my early hours not learning much, just repeating the same basic and easy skills it to be successful on certain classes. It was only when I started spending the next few thousand hours practicing in more advanced settings (and learning about the game) did I start to see improvement that enabled me to play a higher level.

Once in a blue moon I revisit Lazytown where I started to game and see some of the same faces there, their TF2 hours starting to jump into the 5k+ region and still, still they run in straight lines into sentry guns as Pyro. It isn't the amount of practice you do, it's the quality of practice.

idk about it taking 10k hours to master something like tf2 because at a high level most of it is dependent on knowing the player habits of ur team/teams u play against and the only way u rly get that is by playing against them (haha duh xD)

but theres definitely a lot of players who just get straight up stuck/plateau'd because they never discipline themselves and focus on improving whenever they play just because

"idk man my stats look good im definitely not fucking up" (ictus being a prime example of this and corsa too maybe if he doesnt fix it soon)
"it works in open/im"
"it works in mge"
"i only play one class and only know how one class works" (this ones rly sad and will doom u for eternity unless u fight 10000 robots a day or dm until u have banny posture)
"i saw somebody on froyotech do this so instead of trying to understand why they did it im just gonna copy paste the exact same strat and never ever learn how or why its successful"
"we just lose to dumb shit that only works cuz theyre retarded" (that makes u the retard actually)
"we beat them in scrims all the time idk what happens in matches" basing anything concrete off of scrims is retarded
"ugh i just wasnt hitting shots that day/week/whatever/im rusty" learning to tone ur playstyle off of the game ur capable of playing at this exact moment will get u a lot further than pretty much anything i can think of right now, theres no shame in being a tryhard but understand the difference between doing ur best to help ur team win and doing ur best to make urself look good- when u have a hotstreak go fullthrottle but dont think getting one 4k excuses the 6 deaths in a row afterwards

also actually admitting when u fuck up and learning from ur deaths is rly nice dont spend those 8 seconds of deathcam whinging about ur team sarcastically over mumble

if all u do is scrim and prac and ur hella focused and not a mongoloid u can hit invite relatively fast (eSpeCiaLLy if u dont piss off everybody better than u)

as far as people who got good at this game rly fast i think pizza still only has like 1400 hours or some shit and still has insane (easily mid/high invite) dm whenever he plays

hes got like 20k hours of kzmod though so the dudes just a wizard with the mouse

i think i would rather quit tf2 than play 3k hours of pyro

I definitely don't think I'm that good at scout so idk what you mean by that. Every time I play or watch my/somebody else's demos, I see more things i could have done better.

Edit: thinking you're good because of stats directly correlates with what you said--plateauing.

the discussion is about plateauing not thinking ur good please use ur eyes to decode text and internalize their meanings in the future thanks