I think viewmodel cvars should be unlocked in matchmaking because they are a preference that doesn't provide a real advantage to players. There are many players in both popular competitive formats that have them on and off on each class, and each person has different preferences on what they like and find comfortable.

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I still like my viewmodels though...

you should just be allowed to move them around like in csgo, making thme visable without taking up much space, i hope you can all see valve's reasoning behind not supporting no-viewmodels anymore.
it simplifies the game to newer players so when they see a big streamer playing they will see his weapon skins and wont ask stuff liike "where are your guns"

I feel that it doesn't make much sense to have viewmodels turned on in competitive, because there was always an option to turn them off in advanced options, so there was never an unfair advantage to having viewmodels off because anybody, even with no knowledge of scripting, could disable them. And some people feel more comfortable with them on while others prefer them off. It's just a preference for players.

I would like to see full viewmodel customization options, as it is in CS:GO. At the very least, I see no reason for locking viewmodel_fov.

And while I can see the reason behind locking r_drawviewmodel (so that people watching streams aren't confused about which weapon is the streamer using), I don't necessarily agree that we should sacrifice customizability and comfort of players for that reason.

It's not about what we want, but what's best for the scene.

While I can understand limiting viewmoel_fov due to extreme numbers causing various graphicals errors (flipped/non-visible weapons, odd reload/firing animations), I feel that the current viewmodel_fov lock is too restrictive and could be widened to say 90 or 100 without viewmodels looking substantially different or absurd. It would be very nice to be able to have viewmodels back off as well, however I do very much like the current compromise of minimal viewmodels and if that's what we're going to have to use I have no issues.

I feel like having viewmodels on or off or adjusting your viewmodel FOV is akin to adjusting your sensitivity. Adjusting your viewmodels shouldn't be seen as an "advantage," just an option for players who feel more comfortable playing the game with slightly different settings. You wouldn't lock mouse sensitivity to level the playing field, would you?

As for skins, I don't think having a viewmodels off option would in any way change the popularity of or market for skins. Take hats for example: hats are a cosmetic item for your character which CANNOT be seen in first person. Despite this, people still spend a considerable amount of money on hats and other cosmetics to make their classes look good. I've always seen cosmetics as something for other players to look at, not for the player themself to see. Skins are no different.

And hey, if Valve really does want skins to be seen during streams and matches, they could always force skins and viewmodel FOV during spectator mode. Just a suggestion.

EDIT: Did not know they were already forced on STV (shoutout to yttrium), but forced during spectating ingame could work too.

Just make it like the viewmodels in cs:go

ok ty

I mean this kind of already happens. Player settings aren't translated over to spectators. The only time a player setting is shown to spectators is when you're actually on the server and viewing a player, you can see their FOV. If you're using SourceTV then there's actually a cvar that overrides player FOV so it's consistent.

It's not about the skins being seen, it's about (potential) players watching a stream, seeing atrocious graphics, players disappearing in an instant when they die, having rockets/bullets flying out of the middle of the screen for no apparent reason, perhaps not even knowing that a class can have multiple weapons, etc.

MM is unplayable for me with the current viewmodel restrictions. It makes me nauseous.

I don't know why would I need to customize viewmodel fov or disable them when minimal viewmodels exist.

The thing is this changes nothing about any of that. People are still going to use there own settings in everything but MM.

Forcing viewmodels on the entire player base because new players might get confused when watching a select few streamers is ridiculous.

You can't seriously use that as an argument for forcing vewmodels.

Pretty much.

The minimal viewmodels are pretty poorly done, as the end of the gun on the minimal viewmodel points to the left of your crosshair. For many people this messes up their aim. Not to mention the minimal viewmodel just looks dumb on most classes (soldier being the biggest offender of this).

Why not? Plenty of streamers already get tons of people asking things like "Where is your weapon?" "Where are your hands" and all that shit.

so people who actually enjoy the game should be punished so that casual idiots can play

It would be ridiculous to force view models in the entire game, including officials and scrims. Forcing models only in mm seems like a fairly sensible option to try and help advertise mm to new players through streams and grow the playerbase of tf2. I mean I get why people are frustrated, it's hard to play matches with models when you have played without them for so long, but in the end the number one purpose of mm is always going to be to grow tf2.

The current models can defs be improved tho, a viewmodel fov slider seems like it would be an obvious thing to include and a lot of the minmode models look silly.

Min viewmodels are actually not that bad (exept some weapons like the standard rocket launcher, which imo looks like shit but maybe thats just me). I disagree with valve's argument about new players getting confused by seeing no viewmodels, because google is an amazing tool and people should not be afraid to use it, but still, i want to trust them, we'll see how things develop.
However, i think that if valve decides to permanently force viewmodels on, it would be better to at least unlock the viewmodel_fov command. Some people may like the standard viewmodel with a higher fov more than the min ones.

I'm enjoying new min viewmodels on almost every weapon (Rocket Launcher and Grenade Launcher are still off) but I still think Valve should unlock "r_drawviewmodel" and "viewmodel_fov" cvars. Locking ridiculous viewmodel_fov values like 90 and above would be more than enough in my opinion.

90 should be the max fov possible. 90 looks great, but above it a lot of weapons start to be broken

not gonna happen.

look at CS, at the highest level viewmodels are still present.

they ALREADY gave us minmode which seems fine to me...

"personal preference" isn't an argument... i prefer to have giant clipping glowing hats turned off but that's how valve makes their money.

don't forget the dev teams salary is paid by weapon skins.

We spend way too much time looking at csgo, and it's obviously rubbed off onto valve. The viewmodel minmode was an ingenious solution to a problem that didn't really exist. It works, sure, but so would allowing people to have screen space.

And really, of all the questions a newer player will be asking about a pro streamer, "where are your hands" is really the tip of the iceberg, you know? "How are you flying," "why is that angry american guy always throwing himself at you" and "where's my favorite class -gaben" are all more complex and have answers that are much harder to comprehend as someone completely new to tf2.

It's really not that hard to understand that professional players hide their weapons because they don't need to see the same animations play over and over.

When someone asks this on a stream they get told "it's a setting that allows you to turn your gun off" and 9 times out of 10 they then go "Oh, how do I use that?". This is the entire point of the community surrounding a stream chat or youtube comment. People asking questions is not a problem and I genuinely don't see how this can ruin people's experiences to the extent that they wouldn't continue watching the stream/play the game. The game even has other cues that tell people what weapon/class is being used such as weapon sounds, class portraits, the killfeed, and what projectiles are being fired.

Imo viewers being confused for the first time they watch a game can be a good thing because it leads them to pay attention to more subtle things in an attempt to understand what's going on and therefore gain a greater understanding of the game as opposed to just watching passively, removal of viewmodels also removes something that's inherently distracting to viewers as well as players and forces people to focus on what's actually going on ingame.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=365126929
^give me this and im down, but default models blow in tf2

Absolutely.