Blue last and both lobbys are quite dark.

The fence just off second with the barbed wire on top needs a clip because there are 2 supports for the wire poking up that block you from walking along the fence and must be jumped over.

Also is anyone else strongly remind of choji's cp_cargo?

Edit: Oh right and that tank has terrible clipping, especially at the front, but you can also crouch and get stuck under the sides.

download link not working for me :/
and i think tf2maps.net is down maybe?

Here ya go: http://fakkelbrigade.eu/maps/cp_cardinal_a1a.bsp

thank you <3

I tested it and it looks really good, however I feel like there are some roofs that look like you can stand on them but you can't.

Why does this exist if you can't get on top of it?

Looking good.
Noticed you can access the roof on the left at the last point as Engineer fairly quickly and easily w/o unlocks,
also allowing a Heavy to stand up there as well, not too experienced myself to know if this would actually be strong with your team supporting you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO5Zt13IZ6c

I'm not a fan of the dropdown being right above the forward spawn on 2nd. I don't think it would be too much of a problem in organized play, but if this map is eventually added into the game, I could foresee it being really frustrating in competitive and casual matchmaking. It seems really easy to just stand above the spawn door as spy and drop down on players who just spawned, or just camp it from above as any class that does damage.

Would it cause much of a problem to move it over to the left, so it's not right below dropdown? I think this matters in the long term. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=736877582

I really like the look of the map overall. The setting and aesthetic are sick (even with a lot of dev textures), there's a lot of really novel structure that look fun to play in, and it was really fun to jump around in as soldier. Great work Phi and b4nny so far!

Looks cool. Gonna run around on it and see if I can find anything.

Seems really difficult to push out of last in the current layout. Your options are either a pretty confined choke:

http://i.imgur.com/zZf9nOF.jpg

or the lobby area which technically has 4 exits:

http://i.imgur.com/19day3e.jpg

but one of them is a dropdown, and the other three are very easily shut down from the defensive high ground:

http://i.imgur.com/OgtqJcK.jpg

Maybe it would help to have a small bridge that leads from battlements to point (process-style)? So you could actually walk up and contest/stack the cap early:

http://i.imgur.com/x2a5EyI.jpg

http://puu.sh/qoJhZ/90efc8dd10.jpg

Not really your fault but the collision on the tank is pretty strange, the little lip near where the hatch is seems pretty easy to get caught on. The placement of the prop also seems like it could be fairly frustrating for people rolling out on the right side of last (Specifically demomen)

http://puu.sh/qoJq6/0b2f45bd88.jpg

Would have this be clipped off in the corner, I like that you can stand on top of the barbed wire but it might be a bit awkward to fight on.

http://puu.sh/qoJLH/62eb16d467.jpg

Clipping stuff

http://puu.sh/qoJVN/7813990eef.jpg

Same stuff, would suggest either moving the props slightly back or extending the clip brush out a bit so that you don't get snagged on the extra parts of the prop when walking by the wall.

http://puu.sh/qoKmq/1a2a2f7ee2.jpg

Not really sure what this area is intended to be used for. It seems like its like a psuedo sneaky/secret area but it also seems like it's a bit too big and open to do that as well.

http://puu.sh/qoKEg/70858c6a37.jpg

Clippin stuff

http://puu.sh/qoKNf/ad53969a49.jpg

Might just be that its dev textures but this room seems fairly large. I think it's because almost all of the stuff is on one side of the room leaving the other side mostly empty. I imagine this is something you could easily fix when you detail the map. Also theres some clipping protruding into the room from outside

http://puu.sh/qoLiu/d55c1b1ffc.jpg

The clipping on the barbed wire and concrete things are kinda rough.

http://puu.sh/qoLzq/57c330fb92.jpg

I think the bars are part of the barbed wire prop and you could probably make them nonsolid in this case or just fully clip around it so that you stand on top of the barbed wire (You seem to do that on last but no many other places on the map so far, would be nice to have a standard so you know if you're going to stand on it or walk through it) The arrow sign behind could also be clipped on both sides, I do like that you can kind of stand on top of it but I'm not sure if its intended.

http://puu.sh/qoLYp/a48fbfb565.jpg

It seems like you can get on top of this but you can't. Maybe putting some fence props or raising the brush a bit would make it a bit more obvious that you're not meant to be up there.

http://puu.sh/qoMey/2d6c25f6d9.jpg

Same thing I mentioned earlier about the protruding feet.

http://puu.sh/qoMNn/4b2ae5a9a7.jpg

I like this area but it seems kinda pointless, maybe putting the pill or the ammo from mid here would make it have a purpose.

http://puu.sh/qoN7l/b70afabca7.jpg

Was probably mentioned before but the sun is crazy bright on this map. Would suggest toning it down a pretty large amount.

The mid looks interesting but it's pretty hard to commentate on most of the map this early because I have not played it myself in an actual game or watched someone actually play it. Hopefully people are willing to playtest this while it's in early development so you can refine the layout as early as possible.

Dont know if this has been pointed out yet but stickies go through the wall on the way to mid and the invisible wall is probably intentional but it kinda bugged me, amazing skybox btw :)
http://imgur.com/a/0tkMS

Just played a doublemix on it, so far it seems like there's a bug with the shutter not opening on (blue) last. Also the spawnwaves forgive teams way too much for getting teamwiped.

I think some vantage points give too much of an advantage: http://imgur.com/a/Lb8L1

Thanks for the extensive feedback on what's only the first version of the map, everyone! Got a lot to fix up. Will address some specific points once I start fiddling around with the map.

I think the a1a's a little rough around the edges for mixing/pugging so I'll buckle down and polish up an a2 sometime soon for y'all. Got quite a few things happening at once right now but me and b4nny plan to keep early iteration lengths no longer than a few weeks between versions.

Noticed this in a mix yesterday: if you happen to stand near the BLU forward spawn at mid while fighting an enemy on their roof, you will get blinded by the sun

http://imgur.com/a/oeJGL

Small update - going to be pushing for an a2 of this sometime this week. Hoping that I can keep the hype up enough to get some testing on it with the improvements.

Would you like us at New Map Pugs to withhold pugging on it until a2 is released?

I'm not sure when the pug would be happening but I'm going to (hopefully) be getting a2 out by/on the weekend. If the pug is in the next few days then feel free to run a1a, but a2 should fix most of the glaring issues present.

We do pugs on weekends. From what you said, we should be using a2

I looked at the map, and it looks great, but I do think it has the potential to be an extremely sniper friendly map. There seems to be a good number of spots where you can stand far back in chokes and see most of the point and multiple chokes, however I only looked at it over on my own and haven't pugged it, so I could very well be wrong. There's a decent number of 6's maps that are also pretty sniper friendly (like process) that are also very popular so it might not even be that much of an issue.

cp_cardinal_a2

Download

Changes slated for a3:
• Changing forward spawn on 2nd to not be immediately under dropdown (thanks Citric)
• Various larger layout edits based off of higher-level testing

Changes released in a2:
• reduced size of sun to prevent blinding (thanks Zoma, Benroads, Gaz)
• made small jutting building next to second more obvious that it can't be jumped on (thanks Camper)
• Clipped left side (def. persp.) of last's barbed wire better (thanks Benroads)
• Blockbulleted and properly clipped various barricades across the map so you can't get stuck on their feet (thanks Benroads)
• Clipped door with wooden plank on top better (thanks Benroads)
• Clipped dragonteeth barriers better (thanks Benroads)
• Various barbed wires that weren't nonsolid were made nonsolid (thanks degu, Benroads)
• Attempted to fix certain displacements letting stickies through (thanks UstinDoppelQuinn, fahrenheit, Smyther)
• Removed weird oil under 2nd (thanks various people)
• Made shutter door frame nonsolid (thanks Googler, degu)
• Attempted to fix blue shutter door, weird bug (thanks Snape)
• Made last and lobby brighter (thanks Smyther)
• Raised captime for last to 2.4 from 2
• Changed spawnwaves to punish teamwipes slightly more (thanks Snape)
• Blockbulleted the picket fence next to fountain in second yard
• Added patches to health and ammo across the map
• Clipped tank a lot better (thanks Smyther, Benroads)
• Moved tank outwards and left slightly
• Marked where you must stand for the large shutter door to open
• Shortened fence around mid and clipped the outside so parts are walkable instead of jumpable (thanks Ynders)
• Changed explosive barrel models to standard oil barrel models

yo if you guys wanna actually have a new good map now is the chance and there needs to be decent people playtesting this. we could have a good new map to in the pool but if the only group of people providing feedback is a mid open pug group we're just gunna have another map no one likes in 5 months.

i made a pug group for playoff+ im players but if you don't wanna play with me at least try to get some of your friends together to playtest

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/pleaseonlygoodplayers#

Okay - gathered some feedback from various players via good pugs and other sources; building an a3 at the moment.

I've made changes to lobby (size), dropdown (reworking into a two-way path), mid (reduced size of high ground), open choke (has a height blocker in the centre similar to sunshine? i guess), various other changes - what I'm looking for is more feedback..

One of the biggest things I've been told by a few players is that the map might be a bit expansive. I haven't been able to pin down exactly where, yet - and cutting length/width from certain areas is going to be pretty hard since certain structures can only be moved/changed so much before I have to remake them.

So: the question remains, where do you think needs the biggest size changes? What I mean by this is something like "the yard from second to mid," "lobby," "second's playspace", "last", etc... I can most easily reduce size on last right now but I'm not sure if that's where the map actually needs the reduction. I've been told second -> mid could use some changes, but that's certainly a large undertaking, and I want to get some second opinions on it.

Thanks for testing and helping me iterate.

Just want to pop in and say you're missing a welcome point and soundscapes. I'm sure you're aware, just want to remind you.

Here we go: a3.

DOWNLOAD HERE (a3)

As always, let me know what you think, and if anything's wrong! Thanks for all the feedback.

CHANGELOG:
• Added small ledge to jump up in 2nd yard
• Made high ground on mid smaller so as to make it easier to spam and contest
• Added bit to the open-choke from mid to second to prevent incredibly large explosive jump plays and to segment bombers to individual point zones rather than spanning the choke
• Removed dropdown entirely
• Added small staircase room to the right (attacker's perspective) of where dropdown was, this way retreaters can go back up into lobby
• Reduced overall size of lobby, including pulling in back wall and ceiling
• Reduced whole length of second and yard by 80 units
• Reduced whole length of last by 64 units
• Moved the second point down, opening up the entire area
• Changed the area linking second point to second yard slightly
• Made small shack next to second able to be stood on
• Shifted around right side of second (defender's perspective) to remove cheeky sightline
• Many bits of detailing and polish

Screenshots:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cardinal/20160918204102_1.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cardinal/20160918204116_1.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cardinal/20160918203949_1.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cardinal/20160918203958_1.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cardinal/20160918204125_1.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cardinal/20160918204152_1.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cardinal/20160918204220_1.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cardinal/20160918204242_1.jpg

Some of the surfaces are non solid for explosives. I haven't checked extensively so there might be more. https://youtu.be/_yL1w8xk9Ls

It's been a while...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84556731/cardinal/20161129221344_1.jpg

pretty textures PogChamp

cp_cardinal_b1

Download here!

The lighting isn't finished whatsoever and there's a lot of rough edges. Be patient with me. It'll all get fleshed out in beta 2; I just really wanted to push a version of this out with detailing to get gameplay testing. There's a few dark spots and I promise these will be filled out and brightened in the next version.

Changelog:
• Expanded curve route from mid to second
• Removed glass pane on said route
• Added shutter door to side flank into last
• Moved last point forward a tad and added small bridge around hut side
• Honestly can't remember everything that changed - there was a ton of little things

Screenshots:

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20161203184548_1-jpg.37214/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20161203184303_1-jpg.37206/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20161203184350_1-jpg.37209/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20161203184437_1-jpg.37211/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20161203184400_1-jpg.37210/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20161203184312_1-jpg.37207/

https://tf2maps.net/attachments/20161203184508_1-jpg.37212/