Whether or not it's possible or on the table still doesn't really consider whether anybody is willing to put such effort into a game with a developer as actively fighting against any chance of the game getting any real traction as tf2 has

At the end of the day what the game NEEDS is developers legitimately working with the community, and not in their normal bullshittery "ok we will try to appease u" but rather legitimately integrating popular competitive opinions and actively supporting the scene through exposure and game adjusting

If the game doesn't get that, it's not going to grow more than it is right now (unless by some miracle a community-made tournament miraculously garners so much attention that the game spikes but that's a theoretical .01% at best)

I don't think anyone thinks that a promod will actually expand the community. I think people that would push for that would be people that just want to play in a small but mechanically sound game.

I don't know what I think is the best, more than likely a promod would kill off anything left of the game but I sure am sick of Valve's shit and have been for some time.

i dont think a promod is the move, because it wouldnt be standalone

however

a promod would splinter the community so much and would be the death of it

reflex wasn't born because the CPMA devs sucked, though: it was more just to breathe life back into the game

finally we can remove pyro :D

remove stupid pub unlocks
remove pyro
remove heavy
remove engineer
remove spy

reflex was made by the cpma devs lol

The options available if a promod were created would be incredible, and I'm sure it would end up preferable to what we have by a large margin, but it's important to realize that in doing that we would forever cut the competitive community off from Valve and the casual community. No promotion, no integration, no potential LAN money or anything like that.

Like hr said, a promod would forever make us a small community. Small communities can be nice, but this game is 9 goddamn years old, and at this point the last thing we can do is further split off. IMO we've never needed Valve more than we do right now if we even want a hope of this game growing or even staying the same.

Giving a big "Fuck you" to GabeN only makes us look childish and nieve.

I realize the damage a promod would do to the scene but I'm at a point with Valve where I just don't care anymore. Maybe if they had done anything in the past year since matchmaking beta came out to suggest they weren't incompetent stubborn morons I'd be more in support of not cutting us off from the casual community.

If you can make playing the pro-mod look cool enough we'll still have cross-over appeal with what remains of the casual community. That would be on the production side of twitch and youtube content though. It would also be on anybody who was willing to actually make such a pro-mod which I would imagine would be a pretty tremendous undertaking.

The only reason I would be in favor of such a mod is purely because it would prevent changes from coming onto the competitive scene suddenly. It could also allow some of the more odious changes to be done away with - but deciding what those are is way down the road because somebody would have to actually announce their intention to make such a thing and get it working somewhat.

find a snapshot of the TF2 client/server from immediately after the WAR update, come up with some hacky workaround so it works without steam, and find a way to distribute it without valve being able to legally shut it down

the game doesn't need a promod; it needs a rollback

Idk if anyone has noticed this yet, but valve has started listening to all the bitching, theyre improving (slowly but improving nonethless). And its in our best interest to support the devs and pitch in ideas. the best way to get ideas to valve is by communicating with big players (b4nny, sigafoo, etc), and if you care you should try talking to these people and try to get them to pitch your idea to valve.

valve has had a massive pile of feedback specifically about matchmaking from invite players from back when it was in closed beta over a year ago.

they've used all that feedback over the past year to do ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOTHING to meet your match except take it tried 6s maps and put in shitty payload maps.

they're either totally brain dead and don't actually know how to work on their game or stubborn to the point of complete foolishness.

splitting an already split community is idiotic

both

it cant be that hard someone just make it and then become rich

But MY MAN, they're listening to people complain about casual on reddit so its A-OK

What about ESEA? I know it's fashionable to cjerk against it but a lot of people like how ESEA has tf2 and there's no way they'd support a promod, and they'd probably drop tf2.

LOL

we've been begging valve for 4+ years to do simple fucking things a dev could do in barely any time at all like balances and bugfixes and they havent listened to a single fucking thing. please dont fucking defend these idiots anymore we've gave them their chance to prove to us that they care about tf2 a million times but they fucking dont. most of the devs are braindead pubbers who main demoknight and pyro.

its time for a promod

A lot of the things mentioned in this thread can be done with existing tf2 commands.

Cosmetic and weapon bans are easily handled with the whitelist system. Classlimit cvars already exist.

Here's your promod without having to download anything

classlimit 0 for pyro/heavy/engineer/spy/sniper
remove all cosmetics (incl. cosmetic weapons) from the whitelist (therefore they're blocked)
ban everything except gunboats/kritzkreig/original

maybe allow the quickiebomb launcher so you have something that resembles the pre-nerf stickybomb launcher

I'm kinda getting sick of people blaming valve for the competitive community to take off.
I don't know about now, but 1 or 2 years ago 6s was fairly balanced bad broken unlocks were banned etc and people knew about the community they're just not interested.
Everyone seems to fail to grasp that tf2 comp doesn't appeal to casual or less competitive players.

-Theres no money so tournaments aren't exciting to watch and there's no incentive to get really good

-Gameplay is really slow. often there's more intensive not to push rather than to push especially at low levels, for example pushing out of the last with a single pick and even ubers can be quite difficult for low level teams, you have to worry about demo traps, backcaps, getting forced too early, etc this results in people being encouraged to sit at last and just counter sack the rest of the team just sits there.

Heck back in the day top teams would literally just sack someone into last over and over agian or have them swap to sniper and wait for them to get a pick. b4nny would have his team setup on second when they had a lead and wait for you to try to push out of last 6v6. This sure sounds like super fast paced exciting gameplay
current high level tf2 is certainly faster paced than it used to be, but it still isn't as fast paced as cs or even overwatch

- and this ones mostly just my opinion but this community has fallen into the same elitest trap that killed quake

do you not think the fact that most players come into tf2 and see a bunch of retards dancing around a bomb with particles coming out of their heads and people getting angry at others for actually trying to play the game is not because the game's developers have based their changes around this demographic

and yet when they come to realize the flaw with this way of thinking when it comes to making big bucks off the game later down the road as they will with their other two large titles, they not only don't appeal to whatever in between comp/casual demographic there is, they spend far more effort continuing to listen to people who play the game by pressing the g button with their other thumb up their ass than they do to the people who have an interest in investing themselves in the game through competitive gameplay

yeah of course the tf2 team can't throw out support for this (large) portion of the game's playerbase, but they could at least have done something to create a bridge between the casual audience and the competitive players by doing something like, i don't know

1. rebalances that make some semblance of fucking sense
   
2. a tutorial that serves as a tutorial or at least something that points players towards understanding how to play the game
   
3. something that showcases competitive tf2, not 30 seconds of players taunting on a podium and then going "COMPETITIVE LOL!!!"
   
4. a matchmaking system that is a) competitive and b) actually working

its late and i cant think of any more (though i know there certainly are) but valve has done nothing to bring anyone to competitive; i can imagine after seeing the "competitive matchmaking" a good portion of players who don't know of competitive tf2 now have a negative impression of it. nothing indicates valve is remotely capable of making the game competitive, and it really seems like they have the opposite in mind.

we got an update that was apparently years in the making (and a goddamn beta that changed nothing) and we got a broken shitty matchmaker that not only doesnt work but one that is so fucking basic i'm pretty sure i could have written the fucking ranking algorithm (as it turns out, mmr is not some number that goes up and down linearly as you win and lose). but, to be honest, this would have been perfectly fine in my book if it had appeared that this was the competitive update. not only are new players still completely in the dark about what the fuck competitive tf2 is, they have absolutely no idea how to play competitive tf2.

i learned of comp tf2 probably a year or something after i started playing, and though i really havent PLAYED it much, i've followed it and at least understand it to some extent. the only way i found out about it was through things completely separate from the game itself. i vaguely remembered hearing "tf2lobby" on a kritzkast episode which was a podcast i heard about from the control point podcast which i heard about from another podcast.... and then i found that it was dead and heard something about b4nny and then i found out, to a small extent, about comp tf2. after the mym update, nowhere in game can you find anything about comp tf2, still, other than the MM. what you've got for an intro to comp tf2 is a fucking ONE PAGE SET OF PARAGRAPHS that vaguely define valve's extremely casual "comp" tf2. sure, you might find something about b4nny or some other competitive tf2 streamer on the streams list that closes by default and nobody clicks on because nobody clicks on those icons up there unless they get an item.

point is, you shouldn't have to do any of that shit. in game, there should be SOMETHING that shows "hey! competitive tf2 is a thing and look how cool it is!" there should be a fucking working tutorial. the game should at least be somewhat tailored towards comp. i played csgo for a short period of time but within days i had already discovered a) the esports scene, at least that it existed + some basic info and b) how to basically play the competitive mm that csgo has (although, i know, it isn't exactly what the pros use and whatnot)

sorry for the incoherent rant

i dont know about promod but maybe an earlier build of TF2 could get popular, not only for comp community but for everyone the way things are looking.

A promod would be neat but I can see a few problems.
1. Getting the client to be standalone will be difficult.
2. Some of the worst bugs in TF2 are engine related and can't be easily fixed.
3. What should be taken out and what should be left in?
I think what TF2 really needs at this point is a spiritual successor.
Maybe when source 2 finally comes out.

http://i.imgur.com/YHVYaM5.png

i wonder where tf2 is going wrong... :thinking:

I'm inclined to agree. These days the way I think about it is: Overwatch is the League of Legends to our DotA, now we're just waiting on our own Dota 2.

Nub_danish made the best post